[ZHendo]

There is a ton of awesomeness happening in the trail bike category at the moment, and I'm hoping people can share some comparative experiences on a few bikes that are on my radar at the moment. This year is likely going to be the year that I part with my beloved Spitfire to try something new, and I'm weighing a few rather intriguing options.

• Transition Scout
• Transition Patrol
• Canfield Riot
• Evil Following
• Evil Insurgent
• Knolly Warden

I'm looking to move on past the Spitfire primarily because I would like something a bit lighter, with maybe a shade more reach, slightly lower BB, and slightly shorter stays. I still have a downhill bike, so I'm not looking for something to replace it, but rather something that I can ride everywhere outside of Whistler Bike Park. I have really enjoyed the carefree attitude of the Spitfire, and would like something that possibly expands on what the Spitfire has brought as far as confidence in the steep and nasty. Something with 10-20mm more rear travel might even fit the bill, but I would also be willing to go shorter travel if the bike feels exceptionally lively without sacrificing too much in confidence.

I'm not yet committed to getting a new bike just yet, but I'm curious enough about other bikes out there at the moment that I am leaning toward trying something new. Though I have not ridden the latest crop of 29ers, I had so much fun on a Banshee Paradox I'm intrigued by some of these new geo, short-ish travel options like the Following and Riot.

I am currently working on getting demos set up for the Transitions, Canfield and Evils, but the Knolly is the X factor. My buddy has a Podium that is beautifully made and is a pretty poppy and fun rig. The trouble with Knolly is that it seems to draw a fanboy-type customer base. There are several reviews of the Knolly online, but a lot of them start with the whole "this is my 10th Knolly I only ride Knolly oh my god so good can't wait till $4k carbon frame is out". I'm sure there are fantastic reasons behind why the company has such a cult following, but reviews I have seen have been especially difficult to interpret as far as real ride quality goes.

I'm pretty open ended in my search at the moment, so looking to solicit some opinions on what people have liked in some of the newer bikes they've ridden. The more comparisons to the Spitfire, the better. Thanks all!

 

[HAB]

First or second gen Spitfire?

 

[ZHendo]

It's a 2013 Spitfire V2

 

[toodles]

I've got the Scout and rate it very highly. It's lively, solidly built and feels like it has more travel than it does (125mm). I bought the frame to upgrade from a Trance Advanced (140mm), chucked a 150mm Pike on it (Scouts are specced with a 140mm) and it feels like it has more travel, is much stiffer laterally and has more confidence inspiring/aggressive geo. However, it is a little bit porky and when the going gets really crazy it does only have 125mm of travel. Also, apparently it's diggressive or something, so when I thought it felt fantastic I was wrong.

The sturdiness of the transitions is a nice touch if you're coming from a DH background. I've found some other AM bikes feel more like scaled up XC.

The Patrol should be a scaled up version of the Scout, but the geo is obviously different, as is the leverage curve apparently. You'd have to ride one to decide. The do come in a carbon version though so if money isn't an issue, you could probably build one lighter than a Scout.

I've heard the Evils have a better leverage curve, but they're a fair bit more expensive here and the seat angle is stupid unless you have the body design of a daddy long legs.

The carbon or aluminium Reigns are crazy good value for what you get and from what I've seen they seem to ride pretty damn well. Probably worth considering unless you prefer the boutique bikes?

 

[HAB]

I've ridden a Scout and Patrol a bit, and have a little time on an Insurgent.

The Scout definitely feels like the most nimble, poppy, playful of the bunch (which is not surprising, given that it's got the least travel). It's also decently burly and stiff, but isn't going to save much/any weight over your Banshee, all else being equal build wise.

The Patrol is burlier and more capable when you're monster trucking through stuff, and the frame is barely heavier than the Scout (or lighter if you get a carbon one). Which of those I'd go with depends on what you're looking for. They feel similar, with the Scout being a little more nimble and lively, and the Patrol liking smashing stuff better.

The super slack seat angle on the Insurgent is annoying, but I liked it pretty well otherwise. It feels closer to the Patrol than the Scout, maybe a little stiffer in the rear end. To be fair, the Insurgent I was on was a little small for me, so it wasn't the best basis for forming an impression of the bike.

All three of the bikes have slightly weird leverage curves. Both of the Transitions start out slightly digressive up to the sag point, then get slightly progressive. The later progression (which the Patrol does more than the Scout) is good, but the digression early is weird, and I don't know why they do it. Ideally on a trail bike you'd have a pretty high leverage ratio early to overcome the high spring rate off the top on an air shock, which would gently flatten out, and remain moderately progressive through the travel. The Insurgent curve is better off the top, but flattens out more than I'd like in the last 25% of the travel.

None of these leverage curves are horrendous or anything, and aren't far enough off to really bother me too greatly while riding (as opposed to, say, the Bronson), but on paper there's definitely room for improvement.

 

[jackalope]

As HAB alluded to above, I think it will be a challenge to get something thats lighter in a meaningful way and still durable enough to take regular gnar-related donkey punchings.

Having ridden both a V2 spitty and a Evil Following, I'd say there's not that much difference overall in terms of what they excel at, but if I had to replace a V2 spitty, I guess the Following would be high on the list. I thought the Following jumped quite well and even made Ardents not seem terrible, and it seemed like a stiff, well constructed frame. Once you get into the Warden and Patrol territory, then I have to default to my avatar and highly recommend a GG Megatrail

 

[Metamorphic]

It's a 2013 Spitfire V2

I have a 2015 Spitfire....and I came here to try to convince you that the 2016 V3 geom would have what you want. Slightly longer reach, lower BB, but stays ain't shorter. Aw dang. Love this bike. Good luck in search.

 

[StiHacka]

Canfield bikes are super fun. I have a 2015 balance and it is a riot. Lightweight it ain't tho.

 

[jackalope]

I have a 2015 balance and it is a riot.

http://canfieldbrothers.com/frames/riot

Im so confused

 

[HAB]

I agree with @jackalope that if you're going to get a 160mm bike, I'd look hard at the Megatrail. It's lower than the other two you mentioned, stiffer (than the metal Patrol anyway), and has better suspension than any of the three I've got time on.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

I have a 2015 Spitfire....and I came here to try to convince you that the 2016 V3 geom would have what you want. Slightly longer reach, lower BB, but stays ain't shorter. Aw dang. Love this bike. Good luck in search.

I'm on a 2016 from a V1. It's set up with a 160 Fork and 26" wheels. I have it in the neutral setting and the BB is 13". In the low setting it's 12.75". I haven't run it in the low setting yet because I get plenty of pedal strikes in the neutral setting, although less than the V1. Which leads me to believe that the new frame rides slightly higher in the travel. So with 2.4 tires, I might be able to go to the low position for more Pisgah gnar goodness.

As far as weight goes, the bike is between 28.5 and 29 pounds. And as you know the Spitty carries it's bulk well with remarkable pedaling efficiency.

But if you just gotta have sumpin different, then I'd look at the Megatrail.

 

[kidwoo]

 

[ianjenn]

AHAHAHA I was gonna suggest looking at a MEGA

 

[Kanye West]

Patrol/Mega/Insurgent are basically mini DH bikes that do a surprisingly nice job of pedaling. They aren't going to climb technical switchbacks or clear rocks like a "trail" bike or a "slightly overgrown XC bike".

Depends what terrain you ride.

I do know after looking extensively that the Transitions have the steepest seat angles and pedaling posture out of all of those, if that matters to you. It did to me.

I know nothing about the Knolly other than redundant links.

 

[norbar]

I rode the Warden a few times and was really surprised. It sits in a nice niche as for me it feels lighter and pedals up better than a ton of other similar bikes I have tried while being very competent on the downhills. It's a nice mix of uphill and downhill capability with enough nervousness to make it fun on slower speed trails I take my trailbike on.

When I rode it my thoughts were "wow this is an awesome bike to ride IN ADDITION to my dh bike" while many 150mm+ bikes made me feel like they were trying to replace my dh bike.



Have you thought about Rocky Mountain? I only rode their 120mm tunderbolt but I was surprised how capable it was so maybe its bigger brother could be even more fun.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

I know I won't get much love for it, but what about the Stumpjumper 650b?
Short chainstays, low BB, long reach. The slightly steep head angle is outweighted by the weedbox in the downtube.

Another option would be the Canyon Spectral EX. Unfortunately they aren't available in North America.

 

[Dogboy]

I'd also throw in the new Devinci Troy. Reach is good, chainstays are short, bb is low, shock rate is good, it's stiff as, and it's a hoot to ride.

 

[Gary]

YT CAPRA but fit 26" wheels and 165 cranks.
midskool DH geometry. XC weight. pedals good. cheap.

FWIW I didn't really like the Scout at anything. nicely active but not fun/nimble enough for a short travel bike/not plowy enough to be something else. pretty shitty uphill too (trapdoory pedal strikes). I hear xpensiv rubber bands in the shock can correct some of that though.

 

[slyfink]

I haven't ridden any of the bikes you suggest, but have begun dreaming of a new bike (maybe 2-3 years aways still). If you're looking for more of a trail bike than an enduro bike, I would also add the YT Jeffsy and Yeti 5.5 to the list.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

@ZHendo What is your favoured wheelsize?

 

[Sandwich]

I have a following. I love it. The seat angle is problematic but there are ways to work around it. Right now I'm running a thomson post in reverse for +5MM offset, and my saddle is jammed forward. So is almost every saddle on the enduro circuit so I guess I'm just cutting edge.

As I said, I love the bike- it rips and makes riding so much fun. Every blip in the trail is a potential jump. Sprinting is so easy. The front end is massively stiff and with my 36 it's comparable to the lefty setup I had before only this one has compression damping. There are problems though. It's not the stiffest frame in the rear end. The frame collects mud and leaves easily. There are a ton of pivots. The axle system sucks.

It's a great bike but it's fairly clear in its purpose, which isn't a bro-duro bike. It's a crystal clear trail bike that excels on rowdy trails and loves being thrown around. You could take it to a park, but I wouldn't. That's what I love about the bike though. If you're looking for a bike that barely makes it to the top so you can absolutely pin it on the way down, then this probably isn't your bike. If you're looking for a bike that makes going up pretty comfortable and gives up just a little bit on the other side, then the following might work.

 

[Jm_]

I'll have some initial notes on my Turner RFX soon, got a few rides on it...

 

[Nick]

I'll have some initial notes on my Turner RFX soon, got a few rides on it...

same here, so far

 

[Electric_City]

I know of a DOPE Kona that will do anything you can dream of.

 

[Westy]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KONA-STINKY-CUSTOM-DOWNHILL-MOUNTAIN-BIKE-/401101800893?&rmvSB=true

 

[Westy]

I know of a DOPE Kona that will do anything you can dream of.

Dammit, beat by a second.

 

[Da Peach]

same here, so far

Nice. I was wondering what you'd gotten. Burly looking bike!

 

[Nick]

Nice. I was wondering what you'd gotten. Burly looking bike!

Yea I'm very pleased with this thing. I'm glad 'enduro' happened, it brought us the refined freeride bike.

 

[ZHendo]

@ZHendo What is your favoured wheelsize?

Thanks errybody, dat der Kona shur tickles my fancy!

Preferred wheelsize is 27.5 at this point, primarily because that's what I'm now used to on my Banshee. I had loads of fun riding a 29er hardtail recently, but still have my hesitations after a scarring experience trying some early 29ers out at Sea Otter about 6-7 years ago. Basically, they all sucked so much it was honestly hilarious.

I'm not wedded to getting rid of my Spitfire by any means, but I've just started to look around at some of the new rigs cropping up and wonder if it's worth the investment. I'm in a unique situation this year where I have limited access to some great deals through some local shops, so if there was something really worth buying over the Spitfire, this might be a good year to do it.

Forgot to mention in the first post, but the Troy makes my list too.

In an attempt to clarify what kind of riding I do, I think that some of the descriptions of the unapologetic trail bike above apply to me. I don't want to pedal some mini-downhill rig to the top to be able to mow over everything in my path on the way down. I don't do a ton of technical climbing and most trails here in the Northwest really emphasize the downhills - climbs are fireroads, or fairly mild singletrack - so downhill performance is absolutely my priority, but I want the bike to still be fun when riding rolling terrain, ripping around on flatter local trail systems, or screwing around on pump tracks and such. Part of the reason I didn't include the MegaTrail was because I'm worried that bike will take some of the fun out of my local trails...it's so damn long, slack, and powerful. This is also the reason that some of the descriptions of The Following have appealed - it loves to hop and jump off of stuff, climbs fairly well, and can have a good time on any trail.

 

[kidwoo]

I've got a megatrail and leave it in trail mode 100% of the time. The build I have with a pike and some light wheels (but heavy tires) is just barely over 30lbs. But in trail mode it's really nimble and poppy while still being plenty stout construction wise to pound the shit out of things. I also have a Turner RFX that's an absolute beast. So yeah the megatrail is the more lightweight playful one. I also bought a size down from recommended for some of the same reasons.

We're all dh'ers here so keep in mind, when I say light and nimble, I mean hauling ass and gapping things, not slowing down to do bar turns 8 inches off the trail bed.

 

[ianjenn]

Rode ours in Trail 90% of the time. It was very lively and I was riding a LG.....

 

[jstuhlman]

@kidwoo - will you be doing a blister review of the RFX? Would be interested to hear your take, esp. comp'd to the megatrail. sorry for the threadjack.

 

[jackalope]

I mean hauling ass and gapping things, not slowing down to do bar turns 8 inches off the trail bed.

[sigh]

 

[Jm_]

I've got a megatrail and leave it in trail mode 100% of the time. The build I have with a pike and some light wheels (but heavy tires) is just barely over 30lbs. But in trail mode it's really nimble and poppy while still being plenty stout construction wise to pound the shit out of things. I also have a Turner RFX that's an absolute beast. So yeah the megatrail is the more lightweight playful one. I also bought a size down from recommended for some of the same reasons.

We're all dh'ers here so keep in mind, when I say light and nimble, I mean hauling ass and gapping things, not slowing down to do bar turns 8 inches off the trail bed.

I got some good video down the aggressive trails at Tiger Mtn. Despite some incorrect settings by myself, I was ripping at times and simply doing "what an RFX does". 29.0 lbs w/35mm rims, bolt tuning kit coming to shave off half a pound, or negate the open bath avy cart I have coming for the lyric, depending on how you look at it.

 

[kidwoo]

@kidwoo - will you be doing a blister review of the RFX? Would be interested to hear your take, esp. comp'd to the megatrail. sorry for the threadjack.

I won't be doing a review on it but what do you want to know?

cliff notes:

Solid as hell, probably the most sturdy trail bike I've ever ridden
Good BB height with 26" wheels, kinda high for me with 27s, not sure I'd want to ride it with those
Chainstay is longer than I would like but does help climbing, takes a bit more effort to unweight the front because of it though
Pedaling behavior is a bit absurd just how efficient and reasonably compliant it is....kinda seems to do all things at once


I've got a custom tuned monarch on it so I don't how stock tunes feel but my combo feels like my knees will give out before the bike feels overwhelmed.

I'd like to ride it more but the fox 36 I have on it blew the damper and I'm waiting on bits.

 

[HAB]

Good BB height with 26" wheels

You mind measuring it for me?

 

[kidwoo]

12.8 with a 26" fork at 160mm, 12.9 with the same fork at 170mm.

 

[ZHendo]

I've got a megatrail and leave it in trail mode 100% of the time. The build I have with a pike and some light wheels (but heavy tires) is just barely over 30lbs. But in trail mode it's really nimble and poppy while still being plenty stout construction wise to pound the shit out of things. I also have a Turner RFX that's an absolute beast. So yeah the megatrail is the more lightweight playful one. I also bought a size down from recommended for some of the same reasons.

We're all dh'ers here so keep in mind, when I say light and nimble, I mean hauling ass and gapping things, not slowing down to do bar turns 8 inches off the trail bed.

Super helpful, thanks man. Maybe a MegaTrail is worth adding back to the list then. I'm also curious about the RFX because I've heard they pedal pretty damn well, but jeebus those are expensive frames.

 

[ZHendo]

I got some good video down the aggressive trails at Tiger Mtn. Despite some incorrect settings by myself, I was ripping at times and simply doing "what an RFX does". 29.0 lbs w/35mm rims, bolt tuning kit coming to shave off half a pound, or negate the open bath avy cart I have coming for the lyric, depending on how you look at it.

When you say Tiger, you referring to Predator / OTG? Those are definitely on my list of favorite trails in the area, so if you liked how the RFX was doing on those that means a lot to me.

 

[kidwoo]

I'd say the rfx fits more into what you said you wanted to avoid with the megatrail. Sizing aside, it doesn't really come alive until the violence starts. Which is rad and it's incredibly capable on some insanely rowdy terrain, but it's a slightly less versatile ride because of it.

I got the megatrail last year and then my 4 year long wait list deal on the RFX kinda came up without much advanced notice.......I figured I'd ride both and sell whichever one I liked the least. They way I have them setup though, I'm having a hard time thinking I should get rid of one of them. They both do different things well.