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Ahhh... Lance is in Yellow and the Economy Set for Best Growth in 20 Years

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Everything is as it should be... Now cheer up liberals/Dims and come partake of the bounty our nation has to offer you...

:)



Economy Set for Best Growth in 20 Years
AP | 6 Jul 04 | By MARTIN CRUTSINGER


The economy appears headed for a banner year despite a springtime spike in energy prices and a recent increase in interest rates. (AP Graphic)


WASHINGTON (AP) - The economy appears headed for a banner year despite a springtime spike in energy prices and a recent increase in interest rates.

In fact, many analysts are forecasting that the overall economy, as measured by the gross domestic product, will grow by 4.6 percent or better this year, the fastest in two decades.

There were strong 4.5 percent growth rates in 1997 and 1999, when Bill Clinton was president and the country was in the midst of a record 10-year expansion.

But if this year's growth ends up a bit faster than that, it will be the best since the economy roared ahead at a 7.2 percent rate in 1984, a year when another Republican president - Ronald Reagan - was running for re-election.

"We are moving into a sweet spot for the economy with interest rates not too high, jobs coming back and business investment providing strength," said Diane Swonk, chief economist at Bank One in Chicago, who is predicting GDP growth of 4.8 percent this year.

President Bush is highlighting the improving economy at every opportunity while Democratic challenger John Kerry has focused on what he calls a middle class squeeze of rising health and tuition costs and laid-off workers forced to take lower-paying jobs.

Who will win on the all-important pocketbook issues? Economists aren't sure.

"It is unclear whether voters will remember the past year and the better jobs created during that period or the past four years," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Economy.com. "It will be a close call and that is one of the reasons the election could be so close."

Assessing the economy at midyear, most private economists are sticking with the optimistic forecasts they had six months ago, even though inflation, driven by surging energy prices, rose higher than expected and the Federal Reserve started raising interest rates last month.

"We are looking for a darn good year despite the fact that we had a big jump in oil prices and interest rates are going up faster than people thought would occur," said David Wyss, chief economist at Standard & Poor's in New York.

Offsetting those drags on the economy has been stronger growth in Japan and China, which helps U.S. exports, better-than-expected consumer spending and much better job growth than analysts were expecting as the year began.

The economy has now created 1.5 million new jobs since last August, compared with a loss of 2.7 million jobs in the previous 29 months, when the country was struggling with a string of blows from a collapsing stock market to a recession and terrorist attacks.

Even with the 10 months of consecutive job gains, Bush is still facing a 1.2 million jobs deficit, from the last peak for employment in March 2001.

However, many analysts anticipate the economy will generate around 200,000 jobs per month over the next six months, a pace that would be enough to erase his deficit figure by the end of the year. That would enable him to escape being the only president since Herbert Hoover in the Great Depression to have lost jobs while in office.

Although the economy created only 112,000 jobs in June, after averaging 304,000 jobs for the previous three months, analysts expect strong job growth the rest of this year.

They predict the unemployment rate - stuck at 5.6 percent for most of this year - will improve gradually, to 5.3 percent by December, as a strengthening job market draws people back into the labor force.

Analysts also are optimistic about inflation in the months ahead, noting that oil prices recently retreated from peaks above $42 per barrel in June, and regular gasoline have declined from highs over $2 a gallon in late May. If the trend continues, inflation pressures will be eased.

The Bond Market Association's economic advisory committee, made up of economists from large financial institutions, is predicting that consumer prices will rise 3.1 percent for all of this year, a significant moderation from the 5.1 percent rate of increase through May.

The group projects overall GDP growth will be at a 20-year high of 4.7 percent, based in part on a belief that the Fed will keep to its pledge of moderation in future rate hikes because of the absence of inflation pressures.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver



So what you're saying is, we're nearly back to where we were when Bush took office? Wow, imagine if he hadn't fvcked things up :devil:
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
LordOpie said:

So what you're saying is, we're nearly back to where we were when Bush took office? Wow, imagine if he hadn't fvcked things up :devil:

...and I thought you were an 'educated' lad...


Obligitoty "pffft" here...
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Even with the 10 months of consecutive job gains, Bush is still facing a 1.2 million jobs deficit, from the last peak for employment in March 2001.

Obligitoty "pffft" here...
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
LordOpie said:
Even with the 10 months of consecutive job gains, Bush is still facing a 1.2 million jobs deficit, from the last peak for employment in March 2001.

Obligitoty "pffft" here...

I'll toss in the obligatory "planes smashed into world trade center" here.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
BurlySurly said:
I'll toss in the obligatory "planes smashed into world trade center" here.
I'll counter with TAX CUTS at the beginning of a recession = downward spiral :blah:

Checkmate in two.

:D
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
LordOpie said:
I'll counter with TAX CUTS at the beginning of a recession = downward spiral :blah:

Checkmate in two.

:D

Ah... those TAX CUTS are now having an effect and are geting us UP to where we are now.. and I think you know it...

Obligatory :p here
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
N8 said:
...and I thought you were an 'educated' lad...


Obligitoty "pffft" here...
Let’s look further into this.
Dem - Carter '77 to '81 (not on the chart)
Rep - Reagan '81 to '89 (note the down slope) :stosh:
Rep - Bush Sr. '89 to '93 (huge loss… but a nice recovery, still a one term president) :stosh:
Dem - Clinton '93 to '01 (steady growth – and greatly reduces the deficit) :thumb:
Rep - Bush Jr. '01 to ? (Looks just like daddy’s chart… Make me optimistic for this election) :eviltongu
 

golgiaparatus

Out of my element
Aug 30, 2002
7,340
41
Deep in the Jungles of Oklahoma
Slugman said:
Let’s look further into this.
Dem - Carter '77 to '81 (not on the chart)
Rep - Reagan '81 to '89 (note the down slope) :stosh:
Rep - Bush Sr. '89 to '93 (huge loss… but a nice recovery, still a one term president) :stosh:
Dem - Clinton '93 to '01 (steady growth – and greatly reduces the deficit) :thumb:
Rep - Bush Jr. '01 to ? (Looks just like daddy’s chart… Make me optimistic for this election) :eviltongu
N8-------> :mumble:
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
golgiaparatus said:
N8-------> :mumble:
Nah... N8 knows that the US economy was already tanking in the last 18 months of the Clinton administration... (any one who owned stocks and other investments knows it too). Then the totally unexpected 9/11 attacks happened which further fueled the downward spiral. Thanks to Geo, Bush's tax cuts and business incentives, our economy is recovering quite well (ask anyone who is a (non-tech related) business owner)...
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
N8 said:
What are you doing..?

Reverse trolling...?

:p
"I can only show you the door. You're the the one that has to
walk through it..." ~ Morpheus

Matrix 2 & 3 just sucked so much ass :(
 

golgiaparatus

Out of my element
Aug 30, 2002
7,340
41
Deep in the Jungles of Oklahoma
N8 said:
Nah... N8 knows that the US economy was already tanking in the last 18 months of the Clinton administration... (any one who owned stocks and other investments knows it too). Then the totally unexpected 9/11 attacks happened which further fueled the downward spiral. Thanks to Geo, Bush's tax cuts and business incentives, our economy is recovering quite well (ask anyone who is a (non-tech related) business owner)...
Seems you forgot to mention the #1 factor... GW's buddies over at Enron got busted.
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
N8 said:
Then the totally unexpected 9/11 attacks happened which further fueled the downward spiral.
Look again... the low point is at '01 which would be the beggining of the fiscal year for '01... spetember is the 9th month, so it would be at the end of '01, almost at '02.
:D
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
golgiaparatus said:
Seems you forgot to mention the #1 factor... GW's buddies over at Enron got busted.

Oh come on... Enron was doing all that sh!t primiarily durning the Clinton adminstration...

I might add that its during Pres Bush's presidency that the Enron exec's were arrested and charged with crimes...
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
The stock market (largly the tech side) was crashing long before the 9/11/01. I had a small mock portfolio in my accounting firm (just an office game for accountants :) ) and watched it plumet.

The slap heard on 9/11 didn't help that was for sure.

Tech stocks were exploding and blooming with no assets to support their purchasing price....they were waaaaay over valued and subsequently many/most went tits up.....with a big sucking sound coming from many who invested in these amazingly profitable stocks in the past....riding the tech stock boom if you will. This not a result of any president...but a market fed frenzy.

Clinton was lucky enough to ride the good fortune and leave before it could correct itself. That is neither Clintons fault or doing. But taking credit for the good times is also quit silly. The same as blaming Bush for the "tech bust" and and 9/11 troubles.

Just my take on the graph.

I hate graphs along with statistics....just a little untrusting of them....until it shows something in my favor. ;)
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
So Clinton was Lucky to rid Sr's wave, but at the end of his evil reign wiped out. But Jr had the skillz to make everything cool again?

I guess W raelly did put the "con" back in conservative. :thumb:
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
cali4niabiker said:
Don't forget that Dick Cheney has got ties with Haliburton... hmm... something fishy is going on in Iraq. :think:

Holy SH!T!!! Do you have more on this ..?


I, for one, am shocked!

:eek:
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Trickle down economics hurt the economy usually. What little bit of an economic policy Bush has sucks. Presidents can't do much to affect the economy, but Bush has successfully pushed it farther off the cliff...
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
N8 said:
Oh come on... Enron was doing all that sh!t primiarily durning the Clinton adminstration...

I might add that its during Pres Bush's presidency that the Enron exec's were arrested and charged with crimes...
Typical Spin... Yes, they were doing it during Clinton's administration. And they did get nailed during W's administration.

However, they were actually freinds of W's... and it wasn't W's doing that they got nailed.
 

golgiaparatus

Out of my element
Aug 30, 2002
7,340
41
Deep in the Jungles of Oklahoma
N8 said:
Oh come on... Enron was doing all that sh!t primiarily durning the Clinton adminstration...

I might add that its during Pres Bush's presidency that the Enron exec's were arrested and charged with crimes...
Keep your eyes on the ball N8... We were talking about what tanked the economy... Enron got busted---> Economy was wounded and on steady decline ---> other companies followed suit ---> Economy Tanked
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Tenchiro said:
So Clinton was Lucky to rid Sr's wave, but at the end of his evil reign wiped out. But Jr had the skillz to make everything cool again?

I guess W raelly did put the "con" back in conservative. :thumb:
Unless my post read wrong....

I said claim responsibilities for good or blaming bad performance of the economy on the last group of presidents is wrong. Unless that wasn't in response to me....take a partisian pill. ;)

People make a direct conection with the economy and the president....when there isn't one. But that is nothing new....and any politician will use it to their advantage if they can. It is just wrong....and somewhat closeminded if you ask me.

but you didn't :D

Rhino
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
LordOpie said:
:devil:

well, he took it all literal like a woman.
Is that any better than you taking "it" like a Liberal? ;) Not that there is anything wrong with that.....

I still don't beleive Tenchiro's post was all sarcasm..... because it is the same crap that gets spilled here everyday by the "other" side :sneaky:

Trying to hide behind sarcasm....how "funny". :p

But far be it from me to be a little serious once in awhile..... :think:
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
RhinofromWA said:
Unless my post read wrong....

I said claim responsibilities for good or blaming bad performance of the economy on the last group of presidents is wrong. Unless that wasn't in response to me....take a partisian pill. ;)
Not everything is about you. :rolleyes: :p :monkey:


Mostly it was a blanket statement of sarcasm directed at hardcore conservative partisan people, and by that I mean N8 & Rhino. ;)
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Tenchiro said:
Not everything is about you. :rolleyes: :p :monkey:


Mostly it was a blanket statement of sarcasm directed at hardcore conservative partisan people, and by that I mean N8 & Rhino. ;)
You are the flip side of teh same coin my dear. *smooches* lol

To bad your sarcasm falls right in rank and file with Bush bashers.....but go figure...sarcasm = Bush Bashers weapon of choice :thumb:

But if hardcore conservative means looking at the issue at hand *hint* the economy */hint* and not making weak associations with presidents....then count me a card carrying member. ;)
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,257
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
N8 said:
Ah... those TAX CUTS are now having an effect and are geting us UP to where we are now.. and I think you know it...

Obligatory :p here

i dont know much about macroeconomics, so please illustrate me.

how does that exaclty works at any level? whose theory was that? backed but what numbers? and bound to what limits of % of taxes??
its impossible that tax cutting and economic growth are perfectly dependant and linear.

there has to be an optimum tax %. is the new tax code more efficient than the old one??.

at the trillions of actual deficit, it would take a while to get even. if that happens. and even IF both tax % and economic growth are perfectly bound to each other, and completely isolated from any other external factor counting for actual economic growth.

PLUS, 4.7% economic growth? thats miserable for a superpower. and on top of that, 4.7% growth after a huge stagnation, i ridiculous. of course after a crash a miserable improvement will look percentually big!!!!

and, is that improvement adjusted after population increase???,
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Alexis, I'm sure I could find you a link that illustrates the relationship, but it'd be pointless. While any good economist backs up his words with data, on the big picture, it almost becomes a living entity and managing it requires intuition more than most people would think.

I'd say one of the biggest factors in guessing whether a tax cut or raise will have the desired affect is consumer confidence. And while that can be quantified to an extent, it too is partly intuitive.

The whole field is ever changing and attempting to learn from itself, but you can credit Adam Smith (1700s) with the birth and John Keynes (1930s) with expanding it substantially on a macro level.

You probably wanted N8 to answer you, but he doesn't know much about economics.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,257
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
LordOpie said:
Alexis, I'm sure I could find you a link that illustrates the relationship, but it'd be pointless. While any good economist backs up his words with data, on the big picture, it almost becomes a living entity and managing it requires intuition more than most people would think.

I'd say one of the biggest factors in guessing whether a tax cut or raise will have the desired affect is consumer confidence. And while that can be quantified to an extent, it too is partly intuitive.

The whole field is ever changing and attempting to learn from itself, but you can credit Adam Smith (1700s) with the birth and John Keynes (1930s) with expanding it substantially on a macro level.

You probably wanted N8 to answer you, but he doesn't know much about economics.

well, i know the basics already. and i do agree that tax cuts are usually good for the economy. within their limits of efficiency. (at 2% tax, a 1% effective cut, will NOT improve economy 100% to the point that a 1% new tax, on a 200% improved economy will get the same collection).

BUT i want to know by whose research lowering the taxes in an already very low taxed country (US) would improve the economy enough to make it worth. and am referring to the theoretical frame for this specifical bush tax cut, not for others, not for europe, not for general economies, BUT for this specific case.

as you say economy is almost a science of feelings, but i think that at the current rate of taxes any cut will actually hurt the overall utility on the economy.

the new tax , imo, is already past the marginal point of cost-effective improvement, in an overall utilitarian view.

of course, it benefits a few, who "by chance" happen to be the same pushing those laws. and its effects on the overall economy improvement are very doubt-ful, and in any case, easily mascared with other external factors.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
I'm in agreeance with ya, especially "the new tax , imo, is already past the marginal point of cost-effective improvement, in an overall utilitarian view."

Thing is, Bush canNOT claim his tax cut was designed to improve the economy cuz that would suggest...
-- he knew the economy needed improving suggesting...
-- that he knew a recession was starting which would mean...
-- that his economic advisers were brilliant and/or psychic, which means...
-- they should've known the tax cut wasn't going to work.

So, I hear what you're asking... you want this admin and/or its supporters, namely N8, to show you evidence that this particular tax cut had the affect they're claiming, but I'm bored at work, so I'm answering you with... don't hold your breath :blah:
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
oh, more to the point... I don't think they really expected the tax cut to improve the economy, it was more simply the republican agenda.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,257
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
LordOpie said:
I'm in agreeance with ya, especially "the new tax , imo, is already past the marginal point of cost-effective improvement, in an overall utilitarian view."

Thing is, Bush canNOT claim his tax cut was designed to improve the economy cuz that would suggest...
-- he knew the economy needed improving suggesting...
-- that he knew a recession was starting which would mean...
-- that his economic advisers were brilliant and/or psychic, which means...
-- they should've known the tax cut wasn't going to work.

So, I hear what you're asking... you want this admin and/or its supporters, namely N8, to show you evidence that this particular tax cut had the affect they're claiming, but I'm bored at work, so I'm answering you with... don't hold your breath :blah:

thats where i wanted to get. without any backup that would suggest that tax cut was made in the sake of overall economic improvement. it is pretty hard to believe such a statement. let alone, give it credit for any unrelated economical improvement in the future.

and given the other posibility, of that tax cut were made because of particular interests. well, its kinda easy tell which reason seems more likley.

but this being the battle-horse of bush to get his reelection (of course is not, but thats what he paints to some sectors), and being obviously contradictory is what makes me wonder.

how can people swallow or keep that crap in their stomachs knowingly??

it seems so obvious i dont know what other reason might be.

ignorance??? well, if ignorance is a bliss, that people (those not on the good side of this equation, probably none of us in this mtbiking forum) who keep pushing those cuts as the end-it-all answer must be orgasmic.

unless somebody makes more than 3mill a year after taxes here wants to raise a hand???