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Air Vs Coil shocks

Owennn

Monkey
Mar 10, 2009
128
1
Why choose less reliability, lower performance and more frequent maintenance for a bit of weight loss? And if someone says a certain bike performs better because of the air spring then you need a new frame with a real leverage curve.

Serious question too. Not trying to make people angry.
 

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,526
21
Transitory
Why choose less reliability, lower performance and more frequent maintenance for a bit of weight loss? And if someone says a certain bike performs better because of the air spring then you need a new frame with a real leverage curve.

Serious question too. Not trying to make people angry.
None of those assertions are true. Are you the OffRoad teaparty? such claims!
 

Mr Nug

Monkey
Aug 26, 2007
138
1
UK
Why choose less reliability, lower performance and more frequent maintenance for a bit of weight loss?
Don't forget the other benefits of an infinitely adjustable spring rate and flexibility to tweak the progression.

I'm 3 rides in on my DBAir now. It's been really muddy the last few times which has made it difficult to dial in the shock properly. I extrapolated the base settings by comparing the Makulu coil and dbair base tunes and applying that to the v10 coil base tune. I've stayed quite faithful to that (adjusting the rebound to suit preference and a bit more LSC) and am happy so far. I'm using the High Flow air can and the large volume reducer as I was blowing through the travel quite easily on the first ride.

It's more supple at the top of the stroke than the vivid air was and has that trademark DB grip to it. I'll report back when I've done some proper tuning on it.
 

Moosey

Chimp
Jan 4, 2013
21
0
I just swapped out the coil on my old RM Slayer SS for an X-Fusion O2, just to see how it felt... I'lll be upgrading to a higher end airshock pretty soon. I thought this would be the one bike for me that a coil felt better on, but I was wrong....

I've now run air v coil shocks on a Felt Compulsion, Evil Revolt, Karpiel Disco Volante, and now my RM Slayer, and airshocks have felt better to me every time...

I just prefer the adjustibility, and I really like the way they feel. Rode a Roco Air WC on my Revolt for a few days at Northstar... absolutely no problems.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,550
490
Im over here now
Why choose less reliability, lower performance and more frequent maintenance for a bit of weight loss? And if someone says a certain bike performs better because of the air spring then you need a new frame with a real leverage curve.

Serious question too. Not trying to make people angry.
ive been on my DB Air for almost a year and have yet to have a reliability issue or had any noticeable lower performance. i have also yet to send mine in for service since there hasnt been a need for it. i did have a issue with my coil's main seal leaking but that was thankfully covered under warranty.
id also say that losing nearly a pound is a little bit more then a "bit."
 

hitar_potar

Monkey
Sep 23, 2011
155
6
Ruse, Bulgaria
Why choose less reliability, lower performance and more frequent maintenance for a bit of weight loss? And if someone says a certain bike performs better because of the air spring then you need a new frame with a real leverage curve.

Serious question too. Not trying to make people angry.
Well, is the Sunday a frame with a real leverage curve? :) Been using an Evolver ISX-6 for 2,5 years now, first on a Devinci frame, now on the Sunday. Absolutely problem-free, it works very differently than the coil Swinger 6-way i had before, very adjustable. :) And with both shocks i had to do maintenance once a year (i've got another bike as well, sooo...). And removing a whole lb is not something to be ignored. I'm new to the weight-weenie game, but am starting to see the benefits now! :)
 

Neuro

Chimp
Dec 29, 2006
28
0
After many test with Rock shox Vivid Air I believe that the air is superior in big square hit absorption and give a smoothness superior to the coil model…probably due to the compressive nature of the air which tends to delay the response of the hit and so to give lower vertical acceleration to the wheels (but this is only my personal opinion).

For example it seems that Ryan Dungey prefers the feeling of his WP air shock in the woops sections….that are High speed shock shaft sections. All Supercross riders are now on Kayaba and Showa air front forks..


Now I have a cane Creek Double Barrel Air on my Commencal supreme V3, and is the best shock that I have ever tried (Fox RC4, Fox DHX 5, Roco WC, Elka Stage5). It's about a pound lighter than my Fox Rc4, is more controlled but also more effective on square edge hits...

I strongly believe that the future of downhill is in the AIR suspensions, and probabily also for the MX...that is a power bike not human powered....where the weigh is so much important....

Excuse to all for my bad grammar
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
1,754
155
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
2 years with a Vivid Air on a V10c. Love it, especially for a bike with 2 travel positions. Checking air pressure is an extra setup step but I don't mind. All my bikes including the DH have air at both ends.
 

Owennn

Monkey
Mar 10, 2009
128
1
Frames are matched to a damper and the Sunday was matched to the dampers' of its time (5th element and DHX5).

By all accounts the Sunday leverage ratio isn't horrible but needs assistance with bottom out control which is why a RC4 can work well on it.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,460
173
For example it seems that Ryan Dungey prefers the feeling of his WP air shock in the woops sections….that are High speed shock shaft sections.
Right...how's that working out for him?

Actually, his rear end looks like total crap through the rough stuff. He'll say anything that KTM pays him to say.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,574
340
SLO
After many test with Rock shox Vivid Air I believe that the air is superior in big square hit absorption and give a smoothness superior to the coil model…probably due to the compressive nature of the air which tends to delay the response of the hit and so to give lower vertical acceleration to the wheels (but this is only my personal opinion).

For example it seems that Ryan Dungey prefers the feeling of his WP air shock in the woops sections….that are High speed shock shaft sections. All Supercross riders are now on Kayaba and Showa.

I strongly believe that the future of downhill is in the AIR suspensions, and probabily also for the MX...that is a power bike not human powered....where the weigh is so much important....

Excuse to all for my bad grammar
http://www.downhillnews.com/display/ShowImage?imageUrl=/storage/SX R1R2 01122013.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1358707193449

Showa just laying the hammer down......
 
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gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
115
San Francisco
I hate how people use what supercross racers use on their race bikes as evidence for what is best for mass market applications. Just because Barcia or whoever wins on an air fork does NOT make it ideal for someone who goes 50 hours in between fork rebuilds. He goes 30 minutes between suspension rebuilds, totally different world.

I sure as hell don't want to be worrying "Gee should I have rebuilt my fork this week? Or is my fork definitely not gonna get stuck down" right before I hit the 60 foot step up at Zaca.



But yeah, saving 2 pounds is totally worth risking my fork getting stuck down on that stuff and dying.
 
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ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,574
340
SLO
I hate how people use what supercross racers use on their race bikes as evidence for what is best for mass market applications. Just because Barcia or whoever wins on an air fork does NOT make it ideal for someone who goes 50 hours in between fork rebuilds. He goes 30 minutes between suspension rebuilds, totally different world.

I sure as hell don't want to be worrying "Gee should I have rebuilt my fork this week? Or is my fork definitely not gonna get stuck down" right before I hit the 60 foot step up at Zaca.



But yeah, saving 2 pounds is totally worth risking my fork getting stuck down on that stuff and dying.

Their bikes also make 60+ HP easy and 95% of the people that are not PRO are nowhere near using the motor to its full potential again same could be said for a 62 degree HA angle, 13.7BB and the list goes on. It is all trickle down RnD. The Dorado I had was an AIR fork and was not touched once in 2 years. It was probably the most reliable for I have owned although the 2001 Monster T was close. I changed its oil at least.

My friend has one on the front of his 450 RMZ with little service for the time he has had it last I spoke with him. But he also is Showa's head RnD Engineer so he gets to play with the cool stuff. I do not think I would run a CCDB air vs a Ti Coil to save the hair of weight between the 2.

Once they have seals lasting a good while then I could see it become the norm in the moto world.
 
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stinky6

Monkey
Dec 24, 2004
517
0
Monroe
I always think its funny how people say "I haven't serviced my shock or fork in X amount of time and its fine." Thats on par with saying "I've gained 20 lbs over 2 years and don't notice any difference." Maintain your suspension and you will notice a difference.
 

tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
893
15
And how performs the Idylle rare air regarding this? ;)
Similar to the boxxer because it's air sprung. I remember when everyone wanted the WC because it's the "World Cup" Model right!? Now actually it's an air sprung r2c2 and after a few years suddenly people complain about brake dive and such things on the wc, switching back to a coil spring. There are also pros who prefer the coil-sercion. I mean how many pros even use air shocks apart from rampage?

The air-idylle is simply not prevalent enough. How many people apart from a handful of owners and mag testers did run a full season on it and can make an objective review? Plus it's not even lighter than my coil fork.
 
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