Algore: Do as I say, not as I do... cuz I am better then you.
- Thread starter N8 v2.0
- Start date
N8 said:
awesome..
you have the nerve to say "typical liberal"...
now "do as i say, not as i do" is a "liberal" trait!!!
i find it specially funny that now, in the age of W
I wouldn't consider W a conservative.........or typical for that matter. Unless you're just reffering to politicians in general.ALEXIS_DH said:awesome..
you have the nerve to say "typical liberal"...
now "do as i say, not as i do" is a "liberal" trait!!!
i find it specially funny that now, in the age of W
ink:
and yeah, it has BEEN a typical liberal trait, that's where the term "limosine liberal" came from.
rooftest said:
They're everywhere in Germany. Lesser of two evils though I think.
You never cease to disappoint...it's just so sad.
David Bellamy is very odd.
This thread from the guy who thinks you can't talk about global warming unless you make zero footprint on the Earth.
Yeah, I saw a lot of them while I lived in Germany.rooftest said:
I always thought they were quite beautiful and graceful looking.
Oil refineries are eye sores..... and they stink to high heaven.
HIPPIE!!
MudGrrl said:
......and what's funny is that this isn't....or rather SHOULDN'T be a politcal issue.
if it's related to energy, it's related to the economy...ergo, political.MMike said:
Yah, but do you really think the economy and the environment should be handled by politicians? Let them play Risk & Monopoly instead and let sensible people run the world. Slippers anyone?narlus said:
Arent you a socialist?fluff said:
Define socialist; to you lot that means a communist which I am most surely not.BurlyShirley said:
Ethical capitalist perhaps?
Well, if you dont want the govt to control the environment, who should? And who will enforce your "ethics" in capitalism. (Which is really just capitalism wiht socialist aspects)? And do your "ethics" do more than provide a level playing field for companies or do they you know, stick it to the WalMarts of the world for smaller business...?fluff said:
Clearly the politicians thing was sarcasm/cynicism but for the reason that politicians are (almost universally) power-hungry and corrupt and cannot be relied upon to do the best for their electorate, but the best for themselves.BurlyShirley said:
Moving onto ethical capitalism, here are some basic extemporaneous thoughts:
For the labor force:
Minimum wage
Maximum working hours
Mandatory health insurance
(there would be an lower (profit) limit to allow small firms some air)
Management wages not to exceed labour wages by more than 200%
For companies generally:
Greater transparency
Higher corporate tax (lower personal tax for all)
Limited profits - any profits over a 75% (at random) ROI must be ploughed back into company/rebated to lower prices or customers/paid to staff as bonuses/donated to charity
No raping of the environment.
fluff said:
These ideas (im sure you know) are actually giving politicians quite alot of control over the economy. Limited profits, etc., that's beyond the realm of ethical capitalism IMO, and much more like loose-socialism.
If we could divorce politicians from govt we'd probably be better off, or at least make them accountable; I have some even better ideas on that front... Currently they appear to be a necessary evil.BurlyShirley said:
There's bound to be a grey area between socialism and capitalism and therefore any such measures fall therein. The idea is to prevent exploitation without removing the incentive to accrue wealth.
Note the lack of state-ownership. I'm also in favour of privatising 'social healthcare' although not without realistic regulatory controls, governance, and limited profit (an example where re-investment would be key).
Wouldn't want to create anything ugly on our soil. That's what Iraq and Afghanistan are for.rooftest said:
Im more on the pure capitalism side because I dislike the idea of personal limits set by a governing body. Id really like to keep the govt. as far out of the equation as possible, except in obvious cases of exploitation.fluff said:
As for socialize medecine, etc...As a former govt. worker, and someone who has gone to the DMV on numerous occasions, the idea scares the crap out of me. It does seem retarded that in a relatively rich society like the US, that the poor will just die if they dont have some insurance, but I dont have an answer.
higher corporate tax = stunt on economic growth.
bad idea, imo.
bad idea, imo.
I don't see why you can't have a mix of both socialised and user pays medicine. The rich can still afford a higher standard of care but the poor are guaranteed a minimum, but still high, standard of care.BurlyShirley said:
Well, we sort of have that already. With medicare and the like...It just needs to be fixed.valve bouncer said:
the dirty little secret is that the u.s. already has that. It is federal law that if you enter an emergency room they must treat you. You never hear any socialist politicians speak about it because it destroys the argument for total government control of the health care system.valve bouncer said:
On another note, Free health care comes with it's own very negative trade-offs, some of those being availability of said care and quality of care. I distinctly remember a story of a dentist in the u.k. posting that he would have 3 open appointments and over a thousand people showed up! When the government intercedes in market functions they always create shortages.
It's one thing for the government to regulate safety of practice, it's another thing entirely when they try to artificially control supply and demand.
Only on stupidly high profits (like banks & oil companies sometimes post), plus lower personal tax will enhance economic growth.narlus said:
That says nothing of health care. I'm sure alot of those emergency room visits would be reduced if a poor person could get preventative medical care when they need it. Regular check ups, screenings, etc.noname said:
Most poor people go to an emergency room, get treated, then get fvcked in the ass later when the bill comes.
The whole thing is broke unless you are a medical equipment vendor or a drug company - they're set up nicely.
no, companies will build their facilities elsewhere.fluff said:
do you think that ireland's the big draw for pharma companies because of the gorgeous weather and great food?
Well, not every company is there are they?narlus said:
I basically agree with Fluff here, although I might tweak his details a little. Pure capitalism is unsustainable socially. There needs to be an element of socialism to ensure the progression of the societal aspect of humanity. Otherwise you just end up with the spread of places like Hayes in West London. Sorry you Yanks can't relate to that, but trust me it's pretty nasty.
What I also forgot to point out regarding companies offshoring is that old chestnut - Import Tariffs!
I can, I used to work in Stockley Park (very close to Hayes) and that whole area is nasty.Changleen said:
I did see a classic quote on an Indian restaurant menu in Uxbridge though - 'Our quality and taste are better than most'... Honest perhaps, but not inspiring.
*cough* GlaxoWellcome(GlaxoSmithkliine now) *cough* '96 & '97Changleen said:
When I took the job I thought 'cool, pharmaceuticals are good, much more ethical than banks. Then I learned some more.
Did hear couple of funny stories, like the time a lab assistant was injecting air into a rat (don't ask me why) and the phone rang. She answered it and completely forgot about the rat until it exploded. (I know it's sick and all but I still couldn't help myself).
And then there was the time that 17 beagles were free by the ALF from the Stevenage site. They were back at the gates the next morning gasping for a fag...
'96 was my first year at Brunel, so if you ever saw some damn students riding round the place, could well have been me. I used to ride a cherry red S+M dirt bike and a green Kona hardtail back then. Ah, memories... I used to do abubacas on the sloping 'Welcome to Stockley Park' thing, and we used to grind and ride the ledges around all the water features, and do all the stair drops down to the water and round the buildings. One of my mates used to live over in Hayes just by the railway station so we'd just cut up past EMI into Stockley. Did you know they built a pretty damn good BMX track over that way around 99/00?