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Discussion in 'BMX & Dirt Jumping' started by cmc, Feb 27, 2008.
. . . . i wanna hear yall's perspectives on how you motivate riders to pick up a shovel.
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have property that won't get bulldozed and it's easy...
I busted my butt working on a trail on county property for the county and now they are going to dam up most of the property the trail is on to construct a recreational lake. talk about taking the wind out of your sails :!:
we simply don't allow them to ride if we are around, which is almost all the time. we even go so far as to not let them hang with us if they just wanna poach...
sometimes we will deface the things that need to be touched up. then one must work to ride when we aren't around...
One thing that will bite you in the ass, is alienating the wrong people. If your shyt is in public, it's best to try and get along with everyone, even the real bastards.
This is what happened after some punk kids got run off a while back.
This was shaping up to be the best spot in Oregon, and it got totally trashed. We are rebuilding though....
Our local dirt slinging hero, MT, instills fear. Works quite well.
we typically build our stuff way out of the league of the punk kids. we never need to run them off since they are too scared to play to begin with...
We've got a surly trail boss who has no problem publicly berating offenders. Similar to WCH, most of our stuff scares off those that aren't serious. Others who actually have skill and are not known to the locals are completely ignored. Some of them get it and offer to help. Others just don't come back. If they show up several times and don't offer to help, that's when the trail boss goes into attack mode.
I let them know how it is, luckly most people that ride in my town don't know how to jump.
of the trails (and now pump track!) i ride at we almost always start a ride off with some digging. make it a tradition from the start. but i don't have the issue of non-diggers/punk kids coming around and tearing stuff while we're not there.
ed: that and beer.
well i would be showing you my first pieces of a shirt that i am creating
Dig or Die
edit: well it wont work but its coming, find me at sea otter
I haven't figured out a way to motivate the locals to dig.... and have given up on it and gone my own way.
Most say they will dig/help build, and typically they take the half ass approach, make a half ass jump/trail and like oh there we go let's ride it... and it's crap.
this is a subject that definitely hits home with me....
I have one rider in the area that would ride through what I was working on, as I was building/digging..... After that spot was torn down he would come by the shop I was working at with the nerve to say, "Noone builds around here" (because he had nothing to ride anymore) me thinking to myself, when I do build I wont tell you because I know you wont help and just want to ride it, tear it up and never fix it. Not cool!
I had another situation, lucky enough to have a friend obtain a crap load of land, only to take on the half ass approach as well. I bailed as soon as I saw the same approach was being taken, he is just not willing to put in the work. Sad part he even has access to heavy machinery.... I mean c'mon!
Another friend (who will dig) and I now have a spot at his house I've put in a good number of hours and this spring it should be really nice, I don't plan to change our stance on not letting anyone ride there. Basically he and I ride there with a few of his beer drinkin buddys from time to time and occasionally let a few of the locals come ride. We don't really even call anyone to help dig anymore because we both know it's a joke.
I resorted to digging trails by myself in the woods and not telling anyone where they were, as well as basically just losing respect for all the others who wont dig, so I don't even ride with them anymore and have no interest too either.
I don't have a way to motivate locals to dig, I wish I did, we would have some cool stuff to ride.. Same reason we don't have anything legally sanctioned to ride.
I hope some of them read this thread. Maybe they'll get pissed and do something about it! I wish I had a better answer for you in getting people motivated to dig stuff to ride. If I saw they were serious I would help but until then I'll just keep digging on my own.
You hit the nail on the head when you said All Talk and No Dig.
edit: sorry to be so long winded, like I said definitely a subject that hits home with me.
Sittingduck: that's beautiful! Looks like you are lucky enough to have some people really willing to put in time digging!
truth has been spoken here
I have a future inking along those lines.
This pic was the inspiration for what we did at our trails. It sucks to have to do it, but otherwise people are just going to continue raping your ****.
that's actually a great idea...^^^^^^
i've seen the cable (attempt) at a few places. the only real problem is that it only takes about 1 minute to forever remove the cable posts. i've seen 'em dug up, sawn off or simply kicked until they gave way...
I guess you could use trees and a big chain
we put ours about 3 feet under and put a half bag of cement on each side. They are in there pretty well. You are forgetting something though. The people who would have to dig it up are people who arent aloud to be there for 1 reason THEY DONT DIG! They are lazy pieces of ****...they would never waste the time to even dig them up if they are in right.
i've never seen anyone actually use trees, but i do suppose they would be much better suited for the cause...
still, 1 minute and a saw and they are done. i'd be willing to bet you put more time into them than that. not that i don't realize they do still serve some good, i'm just saying i've never seen them stay put anywhere...
I'd totally bunny hop that to get into the line. Not that I'm a poacher... it's like me, WCH, and a few others that do the digging around here.
We try to just give people a hard time if they're riding, but not digging. I can think of one in particular that got blasted over on mtbr for not doing sh!t except showing up and expecting ride our hard work. He got the message, eventually.
Hey, what happened to Mr. Purple Bike anyway? I haven't seen him in ages.
This is basically the exact same situation i am in here. I have started about 5 different trails all of which have been destroyed by the county, myself (dont want others benefiting from hundreds of hours of digging and shaping by myself), or by locals that ride, but dont dirt jump and just want an actual trail to ride, which I dug myself (didnt build on a trail already being used). I now have a backyard trail that me an 2 other people ride.
However, it will soon be just me because one is a lazy ass and just plays guitar hero, and the other just snapped his leg (spiral fracture) and he will be in a wheel chair for about 4 months, cruches for 2 and therapy after that. But the nice thing about this is they both ride brakeless, and living in the southwest, dirt is dry. So i will no longer have people slamming there feet on the ground to slow down before the berm, making the entire trail dusty.
If only the other riders in my small town didnt resort to smoking weed (i dont really care if they smoke as long as it is not around me). Now, after they smoke, which is multiple times a day during the summer, they just sit around watching TV. But if they actually cared and did something with their lives, we could have at least one insane dirt jump area. lthumbsdown: End rant
some of us smoke hella weed and still shovel our ass off more than most. weed isn't the problem, poachers are...
Castle . . . that's exactly what i've been thinking about.
the thing is . . . sometimes it's the old school dude or a 14 year old noob who will help you the most to get a line built . . . . .
No one around here rides at all. I always end up just going to dig myself. What really pisses me off is that all the little kids that come around don't even have bikes, they just stomp up and down on the lips until all there is is a mole hill left.
Mr. purple bike has been riding dh alot lately, he rode the reckless trails with me last week. His bike isn't purple anymore, its polished aluminum.
Do I count as a poacher, I dug for awhile and havent even rode the trails yet. I do poach the dh trails though.
It might not work for DJ spots, but building a legit trail system and making it for anyone that wants to show up has worked really well at blackrock. No one whines about who did what, no one gets pissed of because so and so didn't dig. They have regular work parties, and shyt gets done. Of course, it happens mainly on the backs of a few really dedicated people, but they do it freely with no reservations or requirements. It's a refreshing approach.
Castle, I know where you are coming from. I don't even bother with most of the riders around here anymore. I'd rather work alone than be part of building shoddy lines.
If you want a job done right, you've gotta do it yourself.
All of the sickest DJ spots in the state of California are built by weed smoking fools. Straight up.
I think the main problem is lack of legal places. People get sick of seeing their hard work go to waste. A problem with legal dirt jumps is that if they are in a park or next to a skate park (the only two legal areas I know of in the greater Seattle area) kids walk over them and mess them up. Then it gets to a point that no one really cares or wants to ride them. Then to the city officials or whoever it looks like no one rides bikes and it is a waste of time and money to them.
Nobody in my area rides the stuff that I do and certainly nobody around here will dig. So, basically I just dig and ride by myself, which I actually like.
you have to just start out with a group of dedicated guys from the start and try to keep the spot low key as well as possible.(easier said then done, i know)
back in the day I started a sandy but super fun jump spot near my old house. at first i was the only guy digging and riding the spot. eventually i got some friends who were really dedicated as well and even though we weren't the most experienced riders or builders and our spot wasn't the most ideal, we had a friggin blast. we also encountered a lot of problems mainly with idiot airsoft players and other general retards who liked to mess stuff up. its just part of the show unless you find a place really hidden. it's best to keep it underground...once people show up they don't leave.
o and on the low spots are the way to go for sure.
its also kind of fun if ur friends with many groups of riders so you get into most of the on the low spots!
he means hes gonna get "dig or die" tattooed to himself
now that is the dedication i like to see
Good topic and a lot of really great posts. Castle's says a lot and you can tell he and a lot of you guys have been moving shovels for a real long time.
I always say trails are the most fun and fustrating thing I've ever experienced from bike riding. There is absolutely nothing better than good temps, clear skies, great friends and riding nice trails but there is also nothing worse than poached work, digging by yourself for way too many hours, getting tools stolen, and having your lines get hosed by the poachers, vandals weather, and other outside factors.
I'm always thinking about trails - what lines I should be working on next and in the future, what spots I'd like to hit this season, what place could be a backup spot, and so on.
One thing I thought would be cool and might work is a co-op setup. I think skaters have done it for private skateparks. If you could lease or buy a section of land (I'm guessing 2-3 acres would be enough for something decent) and have a crew of riders split the costs. Being on private land, you should be able to get machinery in there that would make things a lot quicker. People that dig can attach a price to their efforts and those who don't have to pay more. A lot would depend on land costs and number of riders and how much those riders are willing to spend to ride their own trails as well as what type of insurance and those associated costs.
As far as handling poachers? Cabling off the runs, tarping the lips and landings, No Tresspasing signs, and maybe even cheap survelance cameras. If new people really want to ride there charge an admission price (if possible) or have them join the co-op.
I'm not sure if it could work or would even be worth the hassle. But I would love to see sustainable trails that benefit the hard workers that build them and always thinking of what could work...
like the idea but it would be difficult to get going with out a core group of responsible riders.
and i HATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEEEEe when your shovels get stolen ( i know to take them with you but sometimes you just cant)