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$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
lu! lu! lu! lu! lu! lu! lu!

Muslims Assail Pope's Remarks on Islam

ANKARA, Turkey

Turkey's ruling Islamic-rooted party joined a wave of criticism of Pope Benedict XVI on Friday, accusing him of trying to revive the spirit of the Crusades with remarks he made about Islam. Muslim leaders in the Middle East expressed dismay, and Pakistan's parliament unanimously condemned him.

The Vatican said the pope did not intend the remarks _ made in Germany on Tuesday during an address at a university _ to be offensive.

The pope quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and a Persian scholar on the truths of Christianity and Islam.

"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the pope said.

"He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached,'" he quoted the emperor as saying. He did not explicitly agree with them nor repudiate them.

Turkey's top Islamic cleric, Religious Affairs Directorate head Ali Bardakoglu, asked Benedict on Thursday to apologize about the remarks and unleashed a string of accusations against Christianity, raising tensions before the pontiff's planned visit to Turkey in November on what would be his first papal pilgrimage in a Muslim country.

Bardakoglu said he was deeply offended and called the remarks "extraordinarily worrying, saddening and unfortunate."

On Thursday, when the pope returned to Italy, Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said, "It certainly wasn't the intention of the pope to carry out a deep examination of jihad (holy war) and on Muslim thought on it, much less to offend the sensibility of Muslim believers."

Lombardi insisted the pontiff respects Islam. Benedict wants to "cultivate an attitude of respect and dialogue toward the other religions and cultures, obviously also toward Islam," Lombardi said.

On Friday, Salih Kapusuz, a deputy leader of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's party, said Benedict's remarks were either "the result of pitiful ignorance" about Islam and its prophet, or worse, a deliberate distortion of the truths.

"He has a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages. He is a poor thing that has not benefited from the spirit of reform in the Christian world," Kapusuz blurted out in comments made to the state-owned Anatolia news agency. "It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades."

In Beirut, Lebanon's most senior Shiite Muslim cleric denounced the remarks and demanded the pope personally apologize for insulting Islam.

"We do not accept the apology through Vatican channels ... and ask him (Benedict) to offer a personal apology _ not through his officials _ to Muslims for this false reading (of Islam)," Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah told worshippers in his Friday prayers sermon.

A Lebanese government official said the country's ambassador to the Vatican has been instructed to seek clarifications on the pontiff's remarks.

In neighboring Syria, the grand mufti, the country's top Sunni Muslim religious authority, sent a letter to the Pope saying he feared the pontiff's comments on Islam would worsen interfaith relations.

And in Cairo, about 100 demonstrators gathered in an anti-Vatican protest outside the capital's al-Azhar mosque.

Pakistan's parliament unanimously adopted a resolution condemning the pope for making what it called "derogatory" comments about Islam, and seeking an apology from him

Pakistan's Foreign Ministry also called the pope's remarks "regrettable."

"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.

"What he has done is that he has quoted very offensive remarks by some emperor hundreds of years ago," Aslam said. "It is not helpful (because) we have been trying to bridge the gap, calling for dialogue and understanding between religions."

She said Muslims had a long history of tolerance, adding that when the Catholic kingdom of Spain expelled its Jewish population in 1492 they were welcomed by Muslim nations such as the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

Benedict, who has made the fight against growing secularism in Western society a theme of his pontificate, is expected to visit Turkey for a few days, starting Nov. 28. He was invited by the staunchly secularist Turkish President Ahmet Necdet Sezer, who said the invitation was part of an effort to strengthen dialogue between religions.

On Friday the pope appointed a French prelate with diplomatic experience in the Muslim world as the Vatican's new foreign minister. The new foreign minister _ officially called secretary for relations with states _ is Archbishop Dominique Mamberti, 54, who was born of French parents in Morocco.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
Religion is the source of almost every problem in the world (especially if you count our corrupt president's policies as christian). People need to chill the f*ck out.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Religion is the source of almost every problem in the world (especially if you count our corrupt president's policies as christian). People need to chill the f*ck out.
well, look who's been doing shots out of rosie odonnell's quimbath!

so let's run through the list of bush's fundamentalist christian policies being the source of almost every problem in the world [remember, you wrote "especially"]:

{empty set}*

again, recalling that you wrote "especially", what shall the test be to see which religion is doing more seething, whinging, rioting, beheading, frothing?



* iraq liberation act signed by bill clinton in 1998
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
also...if this GWOT was (to paraphrase war critics) "concocted on lies", let's recall who some of the original architects were: neoconservatives.

perle. kristol. wolfowitz. feith. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Rohatyn]rohatyn[/url].

crusaders don't typically wear yarmulkes.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the pope said.

"He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached,'" he quoted the emperor as saying. He did not explicitly agree with them nor repudiate them.


Um, i'd say that was pretty inflamatory. Bush's "christian" policies are retarded as the Islamic ones. Right wing bigots are hilarious. Welcome to their club!
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
well, look who's been doing shots out of rosie odonnell's quimbath!

so let's run through the list of bush's fundamentalist christian policies being the source of almost every problem in the world [remember, you wrote "especially"]:

{empty set}*

again, recalling that you wrote "especially", what shall the test be to see which religion is doing more seething, whinging, rioting, beheading, frothing?



* iraq liberation act signed by bill clinton in 1998
Nice job of misinterpreting what I said, and therefore putting a bunch of words in my mouth that are completely unlike anything I would ever say.

I didn't say "christianity" is the problem.

I said "religion" is the problem.

ALL religion.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Nice job of misinterpreting what I said, and therefore putting a bunch of words in my mouth that are completely unlike anything I would ever say.

I didn't say "christianity" is the problem.

I said "religion" is the problem.

ALL religion.
what's the reasonable interpretation of this:
Echo said:
(especially if you count our corrupt president's policies as christian).
i will agree that no religion has been immune from frothers uniting their minions for a violent cause (yes, even hindus).
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the pope said.

"He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached,'" he quoted the emperor as saying. He did not explicitly agree with them nor repudiate them.
let there be no doubt, these remarks are rather inflammatory. tell me, will you be utterly gobsmacked to find out violence will follow in its wake? half a million sudanese - purely because they are christian - are being slaughtered, chased off the land, raped, terrorised, and the world yawns.

see a difference?
Bush's "christian" policies are retarded as the Islamic ones. Right wing bigots are hilarious. Welcome to their club!
you cannot be talking about armed conflict, as i pointed out elsewhere in this thread, so maybe you're talking about gay marriage (which isn't exactly getting a warm reception by jewish groups either), or not federally funding embryonic stem-cell research, or janet jackson's boob?
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
transcend,

1st 2 pics represent victims of christians?
3rd pic: i don't see the rosary around her neck; do you assume she's christian? how do you not know she's an atheist?
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,920
2,887
Pōneke
$tinkle, it's early in the morning and I'm hung over. What point exactly are you making?

So far I'm getting 'Muslims bad - Christians less bad', Hmmm, I think I agree with Echo/Trancend - All religion dumb as ****.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
$tinkle, it's early in the morning and I'm hung over. What point exactly are you making?
the usual drivel; no original content here at all.

in the meantime, europe may well burn all the way to the gates of vienna
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Typical xenophobic American. Enjoy your trailer parks and supersized mcdonalds happy meals.
and you enjoy your 2 year wait for corrective knee surgery under your brilliant socialized medical programme.

and i expect you to treat my bike with respect when you put in on the lift for me, jacque.

frikkin ice fisher.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
and you enjoy your 2 year wait for corrective knee surgery under your brilliant socialized medical programme.

and i expect you to treat my bike with respect when you put in on the lift for me, jacque.

frikkin ice fisher.
Sweet, as well as being a simpleton, you are clearly uneducated. Just like Americans, we can choose to pay for private healthcare. the difference is our poor don't have to go without, be refused service or go bankrupt.

Or you can do what I did, wait 1 day and get pretty much any care you need (including multiple surgeries, cat scans etc).
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
I will say this, my experience is that Muslims get a lot more bent out of shape about crap like this then Christians and not by a small margin. The fact of the matter is that I read, hear and see MUCH worse comments from senior clerics throughout the region on a daily basis then what the pope said. What I don't see is the same reaction by Christians to those comments.

Or maybe it could be that most folks don't hear or see what some the clerics are saying.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I will say this, my experience is that Muslims get a lot more bent out of shape about crap like this then Christians and not by a small margin. The fact of the matter is that I read, hear and see MUCH worse comments from senior clerics throughout the region on a daily basis then what the pope said. What I don't see is the same reaction by Christians to those comments.

Or maybe it could be that most folks don't hear or see what some the clerics are saying.
We should bring such claims to the attention of our christian leaders. In boxes..........with missles, weaver stance how-tos, lots of firearms, images of clean white girls being attacked by the evil brown people .....plus pics of mohammad giving pope the shocker while sucking his johnson.

I'd really like to escalate this.
 

Old Man G Funk

Choir Boy
Nov 21, 2005
2,864
0
In a handbasket
A co-worker of mine had an interesting thought not too long ago that perhaps Islam is going through the same stage that Judaism and Christianity went through long ago (violence shoved together with a nice touch of evangelism.) In the Bible the Jews fought anything and anyone for many many years, and during the Roman times had to be subdued quite often. After that it was the Christians' turn with their numerous Crusades and Inquisitions. Perhaps now we are simply seeing the growing pains of a younger religion.
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Perhaps now we are simply seeing the growing pains of a younger religion.
So you actually think Islam is younger then Christianity?
Guess again.
Also, people from different cultures/religions have ALLWAYS been at war with eachother.
But back in the day wars were between nations rather then civilizations, while the future of world politics will be shaped by wars between people of different cultures and not between the nations they live in.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,920
2,887
Pōneke
How do you respond when someone says you're irrational and violent?

Oh, I know, let's go kill some people.
From The Independant:

hundreds of miles south of Rome, in Mogadishu, at least two men shot a 70-year-old Italian nun four times in the back at a school where she worked. The nun, Sister Leonella, died in hospital. A senior Islamic souce in Somalia cited by Reuters said there was "a high level of possibility" that the murder was linked to the speech.
And yesterday the surge of violence continued. Two churches in the West Bank were set on fire, following five incidents in the West Bank and Gaza on Saturday, when five churches were firebombed and fired at.
But, elsewhere, firebrand Islamic preachers continued to milk the crisis for all it was worth. In the holy city of Qom, in Iran, a hardline cleric, Ahmad Khatami, told hundreds of demonstrators that the Pope and President Bush were "united in order to repeat the Crusades".
F'in religious dicks.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
So you actually think Islam is younger then Christianity?
Since you don't have Islam without Mohammaed, and you don't have Christianity without Christ, and Christ predates Mohammed, I'm curious as to how exactly you're going to make the claim that Islam is the same age or older than Christianity.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Since you don't have Islam without Mohammaed, and you don't have Christianity without Christ, and Christ predates Mohammed, I'm curious as to how exactly you're going to make the claim that Islam is the same age or older than Christianity.
i think he means islam is so evil, it's satanic.

q.e.d.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
so, whats the spread for the pope getting pwn3d in his next visit to a muslim country?
don't even think he'll have to leave the comfort of the suisse guard if this comes to fruition:
The Vatican has increased the security provisions for the Pope, Army Radio reported Sunday, a day after an Iraqi insurgent group threatened the Vatican with a suicide attack over the pope's remarks on Islam.

haaretz
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
i think he means islam is so evil, it's satanic.

q.e.d.
Still doesn't work. God was around before Satan, and since Jesus is part of the Trinity, he was around before Satan as well. If Islam is Satanic and Christianity is Godlike, Christianity is still older.

Christ, religious arguments are stupid... :banghead: