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Allround-FS-bike?

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
Hi!

I dont know where to start.

I've been eyeing on IBIS Mojo HD but I dont afford to build the whole bike substantially lighter than my current DH bike (IH Sunday with 888/Avy & 823EX/Hadley) . If I could find a way to get sub13kg for allround FS, it'd be cool but probably it'd be a used frame within my budget.

I got sneaky idea, how about Sunday frame with lighter parts when it is not for dh use. I usually take apart Sunday for traveling to a place to ride (I dont live close mountains and have to take train or buss)

So 55CR, light wheels as EX721 with Hope or SuperStar hubs, single ply tires would work? Im not expert on geometry but what HA I get on 170 or 150mm front? my uses are wide ranging from urban to light forest, sometimes to go up and ride on flat. I have older frame with ancient Specialized FSR that would be imposible to use any else than gravity.

your thoughts?
 

Kntr

Turbo Monkey
Jan 25, 2003
7,536
20
Montana
I used my 951 like that for awhile. In the end I just got another bike. It worked, but uphill was a pain.

Uphill ready


DH ready
 
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djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
1,979
613
Northern California
Hi!

I dont know where to start.

I've been eyeing on IBIS Mojo HD but I dont afford to build the whole bike substantially lighter than my current DH bike (IH Sunday with 888/Avy & 823EX/Hadley) . If I could find a way to get sub13kg for allround FS, it'd be cool but probably it'd be a used frame within my budget.

I got sneaky idea, how about Sunday frame with lighter parts when it is not for dh use. I usually take apart Sunday for traveling to a place to ride (I dont live close mountains and have to take train or buss)

So 55CR, light wheels as EX721 with Hope or SuperStar hubs, single ply tires would work? Im not expert on geometry but what HA I get on 170 or 150mm front? my uses are wide ranging from urban to light forest, sometimes to go up and ride on flat. I have older frame with ancient Specialized FSR that would be imposible to use any else than gravity.

your thoughts?
More info needed.

- Climbing? If so, what kind of climb profile? Thousands of feet? Small hills? Flat fireroad? Technical singletrack? How steep?
- Do much tight singletrack riding?
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,691
400
Warsaw :/
Hi!

I dont know where to start.

I've been eyeing on IBIS Mojo HD but I dont afford to build the whole bike substantially lighter than my current DH bike (IH Sunday with 888/Avy & 823EX/Hadley) . If I could find a way to get sub13kg for allround FS, it'd be cool but probably it'd be a used frame within my budget.

I got sneaky idea, how about Sunday frame with lighter parts when it is not for dh use. I usually take apart Sunday for traveling to a place to ride (I dont live close mountains and have to take train or buss)

So 55CR, light wheels as EX721 with Hope or SuperStar hubs, single ply tires would work? Im not expert on geometry but what HA I get on 170 or 150mm front? my uses are wide ranging from urban to light forest, sometimes to go up and ride on flat. I have older frame with ancient Specialized FSR that would be imposible to use any else than gravity.

your thoughts?

Visit Canyon bikes and YT Technologies sites. For very little you can have a banging 170mm (yt) or 180mm (Canyon) all arounders with awesome parts.
 
Aug 25, 2011
527
0
West Milford, NJ, 'MERICA
I have a Giant Reign 2 from 2012 and love it for all around use! Can literally do anything!

I have a full dh, XC hardtail, DJ and road bike and and this Reign performs great compared to them. Ideally having a bike for everything is great, but if you can have one bike I reccomend a newer reign!
 

bengxe

Monkey
Dec 19, 2011
211
30
upstate NY
I used to pedal my Sunday uphill. I swapped to single ply tires and a longer seatpost when I had to pedal it, and it was geared 32 x 11-34. I had a 180mm 66 on it, if you go much shorter the low bb height will be an issue in any kind of technical climbing. My shock doesnt use a platform valve, so lots of LSC helped alot. It actually pedaled pretty well. Pedal bob isnt an issue if you can stay in the saddle, and the seat angle is steep enough to not be an issue.
 

Speedgoat9

Monkey
Aug 27, 2009
147
0
State College, PA
I am really stoked on my cannondale jekyll. Climbs amazing in the short travel mode and descends even better in the long travel mode. Truly an amazing all around bike.
 
Canfield one hands down...like a sx on steroids with a Sunday like feel through chop. Pedals amazing won't be a true hardcore DH machine bit will ride 90% of everything out there well...
Im planning on getting another this season, it was my all time favorite bike for do it all riding if pedalling was in there no biggie and it handled drops and chop like a light DH bike...

I will still continue to ride different stuff but that bike is amazing if you don't need a designated DH rig...

 
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Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,360
1,202
01776
I didn't like the way my sunday pedaled under weirder-than-normal circumstances. Climbing a steep hill was really weird. It pulled up and broke traction really easily. I don't know if I was at a weird position in the travel or what, but I could not imagine trying to ride something like that as a trail bike. It was great on flat ground or for general downhilling, but the climbing phenomenon was weird and repeatable.
 

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
Whoa some replies here!

I think I give up Sunday as hybride bike :) Stupid thought about climbing indeed but was worth the try. Norbar posted links to YT Tech and Canyon. Those prices are way too good to pass up adding another new bike. So lets discuss about worthy companion to dh bike.

Regarding climbing profile, I think I dont want limit to anything, it should do everything from thousand feet to fireroad even quite steep. But mostly moderate steep, small hills, singletracks, sometimes tight as such places near my home. In rarer case when I visit a friend in north of Sweden there it'd be some long uphill but it'd reward me with good downhill perfomance after "hard work". It means the ability to do different things would be wide range. Hence all-rounder.

I dont get clever by definition by Enduro and AM, maybe I look at middle between those categories. AM looks too phuny to handle abuse I throw at without worrying about cracking. I dont know either how much enduro geometry is compromised losing some climbing ability for more downhill. Lets assume if AM handles downhill about good as Enduro but has better climbing ability by larger margin and still can handle abuse, then I 'd look at it. If Enduro can handle climbing about good as AM, then itd be given choice. You get idea. Im looking for balanced choice.

I want to have something to complement to my DH and 4x/slalom bike. Slalom bike is fun to ride downhill with all shaky feeling. So 10mm difference of front/rear suspension doesnt matter for me.

What cool about Mojo HD that it can take RC4 damper but I realize that I still want light weigth close to 13kg without much durability lost.

I like Canyon of two alternatives because Shimano and Fox parts. Strive and Nerve look interesting. Marketing talk confuses me, Strive is called allrounder and Nerve does good both on up and down. Though Nerve AM has good price 1600 euros. But Strive seems closer to Mojo HD hence the first choice. 14kg is not bad still.

I will get back after looking geometry data from different bike brands listed here, also reviews.Im sure Im gonna be more confused after that so I look for input from downhillers here. I wont disregard good downhill performance but it doesnt have to be Magnificient as with 180mm fork ;)
 
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Whoa some replies here!

I think I give up Sunday as hybride bike :) Stupid thought about climbing indeed but was worth the try. Norbar posted links to YT Tech and Canyon. Those prices are way too good to pass up adding another new bike. So lets discuss about worthy companion to dh bike.

Regarding climbing profile, I think I dont want limit to anything, it should do everything from thousand feet to fireroad even quite steep. But mostly moderate steep, small hills, singletracks, sometimes tight as such places near my home. In rarer case when I visit a friend in north of Sweden there it'd be some long uphill but it'd reward me with good downhill perfomance after "hard work". It means the ability to do different things would be wide range. Hence all-rounder.

I dont get clever by definition by Enduro and AM, maybe I look at middle between those categories. AM looks too phuny to handle abuse I throw at without worrying about cracking. I dont know either how much enduro geometry is compromised losing some climbing ability for more downhill. Lets assume if AM handles downhill about good as Enduro but has better climbing ability by larger margin and still can handle abuse, then I 'd look at it. If Enduro can handle climbing about good as AM, then itd be given choice. You get idea. Im looking for balanced choice.

I want to have something to complement to my DH and 4x/slalom bike. Slalom bike is fun to ride downhill with all shaky feeling. So 10mm difference of front/rear suspension doesnt matter for me.

What cool about Mojo HD that it can take RC4 damper but I realize that I still want light weigth close to 13kg without much durability lost.

I like Canyon of two alternatives because Shimano and Fox parts. Strive and Nerve look interesting. Marketing talk confuses me, Strive is called allrounder and Nerve does good both on up and down. Though Nerve AM has good price 1600 euros. But Strive seems closer to Mojo HD hence the first choice. 14kg is not bad still.

I will get back after looking geometry data from different bike brands listed here, also reviews.Im sure Im gonna be more confused after that so I look for input from downhillers here. I wont disregard good downhill performance but it doesnt have to be Magnificient as with 180mm fork ;)
My buddy Bobby used to ride for canyon, fun bikes to pedal around and for the most part pretty decent build kit....
He abused his HEAVILY and no issues...
 

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
Bullcrew, which one? Strive?

Strive ES 8.0 looks nice, add XT brakes and maybe Saint cranks that I have laying. May be overkill :)
 
He had a torque frx and the nerve looks a lot like the other he had....the torque was more of a catalog bike with a few things Changed and worked well the other bike more all mtn enduro ripped...good spec and was definently fun to ride. I got stuck riding it when I went out to his place my back wheel got junked up....
I remember thinking it looked like a cross between konas linkage and chumbas evo linkage (not look lol)...

Get a closeout! With a good build spec they haven't changed for squat Geo etc...

I will add that he beat the cr@p out of that bike and it took it really well, it was rode HARD more as a freeride and training bike than intended purpose...
 
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Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
thanks for headup. Good to hear about durability. Nerve AM 9.0SL is so sexy! '*mouthwatering* :) But I think 9.0 is good compromise without closeout. Much money for the bike , isnt?

When does closeout occur? Is it outlet that I keep eye on?
 
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buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,837
0
South Seattle
I just got an Ibis HD. I've been running it in 140mm mode with an Angleset since it's lower.
It's sub 30# with heavier wheels and a dropper post.
Honestly, if it weren't for the wear and tear of Whistler, I would sell my DH bike now.
It goes up really fast. Throw a 170mm fork on it and a new shock and it will descend very well. Sure, it's still not a DH bike, but it sure is fun.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,691
400
Warsaw :/
Whoa some replies here!

I think I give up Sunday as hybride bike :) Stupid thought about climbing indeed but was worth the try. Norbar posted links to YT Tech and Canyon. Those prices are way too good to pass up adding another new bike. So lets discuss about worthy companion to dh bike.

Regarding climbing profile, I think I dont want limit to anything, it should do everything from thousand feet to fireroad even quite steep. But mostly moderate steep, small hills, singletracks, sometimes tight as such places near my home. In rarer case when I visit a friend in north of Sweden there it'd be some long uphill but it'd reward me with good downhill perfomance after "hard work". It means the ability to do different things would be wide range. Hence all-rounder.

I dont get clever by definition by Enduro and AM, maybe I look at middle between those categories. AM looks too phuny to handle abuse I throw at without worrying about cracking. I dont know either how much enduro geometry is compromised losing some climbing ability for more downhill. Lets assume if AM handles downhill about good as Enduro but has better climbing ability by larger margin and still can handle abuse, then I 'd look at it. If Enduro can handle climbing about good as AM, then itd be given choice. You get idea. Im looking for balanced choice.

I want to have something to complement to my DH and 4x/slalom bike. Slalom bike is fun to ride downhill with all shaky feeling. So 10mm difference of front/rear suspension doesnt matter for me.

What cool about Mojo HD that it can take RC4 damper but I realize that I still want light weigth close to 13kg without much durability lost.

I like Canyon of two alternatives because Shimano and Fox parts. Strive and Nerve look interesting. Marketing talk confuses me, Strive is called allrounder and Nerve does good both on up and down. Though Nerve AM has good price 1600 euros. But Strive seems closer to Mojo HD hence the first choice. 14kg is not bad still.

I will get back after looking geometry data from different bike brands listed here, also reviews.Im sure Im gonna be more confused after that so I look for input from downhillers here. I wont disregard good downhill performance but it doesnt have to be Magnificient as with 180mm fork ;)
Maybe think about the torque if you want something more downhill oriented but still pedalable. A friend has one and likes his.
 

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
Maybe think about the torque if you want something more downhill oriented but still pedalable. A friend has one and likes his.
I will think about it. Actually I'd replace my sunday with Torque FRX. 16.5kg with some pedalable characteric is something I can accept as new trend, not necessarily worse. Just keep both DC and SC forks in case I need for different tracks. Im not in hurry but I will keep eye on evolving trends.

I feel that Nerve AM is something I truly lack in my bike stable. Torque and Nerve AM will cover nicely in FS bike field from xc to pure DH. The reason giving up the 100% dh is that Swedish tracks are not that challenging and Very rarely I get there at Swiss Alpes :( Torque still could handle any condition, I hope.
 
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Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
yeah two are the best so far but the rest is just okay. Will Torque not handle Are and Hafjell with DC fork? Is something I missed about Torque?
 
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norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,691
400
Warsaw :/
My friend has the FR not FRX with 180mm travel and his handles all the trails in Poland just fine so I doubt you will have problems even with a single crown. Hell I think even the 170/170mm wicked from yt will handle are and hafjell, maybe the dh tracks a bit slower but it's a compromise.
 

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
After changing mind and re-editing the post.

I think FR Torque is the route I 'd go to.

I cannot decide for version. At the moment I could pick 8.0 but 9.0 Vertride looks good. Is that worth the price?
 
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After changing mind and re-editing the post.

I think FR Torque is the route I 'd go to.

I cannot decide for version. At the moment I could pick 8.0 but 9.0 Vertride looks good. Is that worth the price?
Bobby rides a spot (29 palms) which is a xc trail and rode his torque on it (3+ times a week) its 26+ miles of miserable pedalling....up and down up and down....he would mix it up amongst the 2 bikes but rode the torque like a xc bike. Now take Into account Bobby Root is also a long time pro and a freak of nature when it comes to skills, pedalling, cardio etc....

So if your not looking for a designated am/enduro bike then as suggested the torque is a good bike...for wc dh its not going to be the best its definently a free ride oriented bike that crosses into the dh arena a little based on setup...

So it will be free ride first and dabble in dh a little but be a better pedalling bike, more up right, has a vertical forward wheel path which is better for pedalling but will suffer on the big rocks a bit. Great steering, pedalling, single track machine for park riding...
 
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Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
Bobby rides a spot (29 palms) which is a xc trail and rode his torque on it (3+ times a week) its 26+ miles of miserable pedalling....up and down up and down....he would mix it up amongst the 2 bikes but rode the torque like a xc bike. Now take Into account Bobby Root is also a long time pro and a freak of nature when it comes to skills, pedalling, cardio etc....

So if your not looking for a designated am/enduro bike then as suggested the torque is a good bike...for wc dh its not going to be the best its definently a free ride oriented bike that crosses into the dh arena a little based on setup...

So it will be free ride first and dabble in dh a little but be a better pedalling bike, more up right, has a vertical forward wheel path which is better for pedalling but will suffer on the big rocks a bit. Great steering, pedalling, single track machine for park riding...
it sounds as good all-rounder to complement downhill bike (not replace of course). It is what I been looking for. :thumbs up:

66 angles for HT is good compromise and I forgot that one could set 180mm fork to 140mm for climbing or Xc'ey

To take 8.0 or 9.0 is the question for Hamlet :D
 
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8.0 alpinist seems to be a good set up, cross Max wheels, air fox shock make sure it has a talas for dropping the front end down seems to be a lighter set up....

Canyon makes a purchase easy as you can get them built in a wide variety of set ups but it gets a little confusing.

I say most important for what you want it for: fox talas 180, crossmax wheel set
Aside of that you can swap things if needed and adjust it where you need it to fit your style so buy whichever is the best deal or pimped out and on sale then sell off some stuff to replace...

I don't think you can go wrong as long as you try and keep it light and as stated above the talas for dropping the front for peddaling...
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
5,384
178
Lima, Peru, Peru
I just got an Ibis HD. I've been running it in 140mm mode with an Angleset since it's lower.
It's sub 30# with heavier wheels and a dropper post.
Honestly, if it weren't for the wear and tear of Whistler, I would sell my DH bike now.
It goes up really fast. Throw a 170mm fork on it and a new shock and it will descend very well. Sure, it's still not a DH bike, but it sure is fun.
my friend has a sub 27lbs (soon to be sub 26, thanks to carbon wheels) mojo hd, complete with dropper post, 2.4 schwalbes. 160mm front and rear.
best "pedalling" bike i have ever had the pleasure of riding. amazingly fast, and yet supple enough for some enduro riding, with some tech downhill trown in.

another friend has an tracer with a double barrel. more downhill-ish than the air-sprung mojo hd.... a bit less forgiving in climbs, but its a fairly capable descender. sub 30lbs.

i have also ridden a friends air-spring uzzi (with 180mm talas up front), and another coil-sprung uzzi (66 rc3ti up front). pretty much plow bikes.
a coil sprung uzzi (ccdb) with a 180mm vanilla, and some single ply 2.35 high rollers, and a double chainring would be money. a beast to descend and not to miserable to climb. and probably around 34lbs..
 
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Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
Got the reply from Canyon recently. It is a few hours before new models appear on the site. '*eyes peeled on*

tomasz, lol
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,691
400
Warsaw :/
If you have some extra cash the new rune should also be an option. v2 2013 model looks like an awesome marriage of an enduro and a park bike.
 

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
norbar, I know what frame I will upgrade from Canyon ;) The rear triangle looks stiff as hell!! Plus linear progression makes that air shock is enough. Thus compensating higher weight maybe. Just now Im too lazy build on frameset, just transfer parts from Canyon.



Lets see what price will Cayon offer for new Torque EX Alpinist. I couldnt wait when the website open, I found pdf file from http://www.mtb-forum.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/CANYON-MOUNTAIN-BIKES-2013.pdf

All those specs look awesome, almost perfect. Maybe I change disc brakes to XT though I dont know how good are Avid Trail. Also Schwalbe tires but I'd run the bike as it is now for a while ;)

Vertride version looks as a wet dream as well. Just add Reverb seatpost.


My height is 177cm what size would you choose? The website told me that M is right size.

EDIT

the site is opened, I think the price is acceptable for both Vertride and Alpinist. Delivery for Vertride is Dec 1, for Alpinist - two week later.
 
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Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
norbar , you're right. I saw there in trailflow description they mentioned something about bikepark. Hence more room between chainring and ground. Crossmax can be expensive in long run and only rims I can buy, it is from Mavic. Not fun.

Too bad Canyon cannot swap fork, it'd be easy for me. Any tips for easy swaps? It would be awesome if a shop could do that but I think it is rather rare exception.
 
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norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,691
400
Warsaw :/
Stans Flows are on sale, sell the crossmaxx, build wheels on hopes, flows and comps.

A fork swap is fairly easy but a shop could easily do it for a small fee. I doubt my lbs would charge a lot for it.
 
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Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
yes, i will check around with local lbs, if no luck then I take Alpinist, sell crossmax and maybe crankset if hammerschmidt is really worth.
 

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,256
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
My buddy Bobby used to ride for canyon, fun bikes to pedal around and for the most part pretty decent build kit....
He abused his HEAVILY and no issues...
Bobby ROOT? That dude is a blast to ride with. I went on a few Palm Canyon Epics with him and his buddy Holla. Went up to Mammoth with him once as well. If he doesn't remember, I'm the guy that went and picked him up from the hospital in Mammoth when he broke his collar bone. ;)
 

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
sorry for spamming the thread with my thoughts. I have to pedal back a little regarding choices. Thank you damn Norbar :D

Today full of thoughts and reading geometry data, I stirred on my DH and noticed it'd be something to upgrade frontwheel to Flow Ex (current Ex823)

Also I'd sell many parts in Alpinist from Canyon, I felt it is waste of time. Then a lamp lighted up.

I can build one wheel set of new Flow Ex on old Hadley hubs and single ply/or hybrid of tires Schwalbe Muddy Mary that I already have. THAT I can use on both Sunday and Banshee Rune V2 , yeah this can take 150/12 rear hub.

Since I have Saint cranks laying unused, also Boobar handlebar. Things get better.

Compared geometry of Torque EX and Rune v2. I liked that Rune v2 is lower and longer. 1 degree steeper seat angle and easily adjustable settings in three positions BB 13.4-13.9, HT 65-66, ST 73.5-74.5. Chainstay reads between 422-429mm.

Banshee nailed my wishlist. I would care less about weight so long rotational mass is light enough. I prefer use same brakes and shifting gear. There new Zee for AM goes along with old Saint on DH.

Norbar, do you know when is it available and price? recommendable fork lenght and shock ? CCDB air shock as standard?
 
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