[strizzle]

SO, I just picked up a new AP BNS yesterday at my local moto shop and I thought I'd give you guys the rundown on what my initial impression are of it.

Fit: When I researched this product I measured the circumference of my chest and looked at the sizing chart to see where I was. The chart said that I was a solid Medium. When I tried on the medium in the store, it was wayyy loose on me, lots of play. But once I got all my gear, jersey and x straps on it was a perfect fit. So as obvious as it sounds, I would highly recommend bringing all your gear with you to the store when you go to try on the brace so you can get the correct fit because there are alot of variables to consider.

-I previously had a leatt brace and found that it really restricted my head movements (especially backwards which made it hard to ride steep terrain), even with a MTB fullface so I was suspicious of this brace as well. Once I tried it on I found that there was NO problems with movement. The back still hit alittle but was only in extreme rear head movements, and I am told that all neck braces do that to some degree regardless of make or model. The sides were very low profile and I could barely feel them there. I'm really happy that I can wear my moto helmet again!!

-Another thing I loved about the AP brace is the fact that the front pad rests on your chest and NOT on your collarbone (which the leatt does).

Style: Thing is sexy!!! I hope the white stays white for a long time. The front securing clip is wierd but takes about 1min to get used to, and hides under the front section to keep it clean looking.

Price: I paid $312 american all together for it, and I am happy do it considering my previous leatt experience cost me 500 bucks. Even though I think the new adventure leatt is alittle cheaper, I would still get the AP over it any day of the week and twice on sundays.

Adjustments: There is only one adjustment on the brace, and that is the shoulder pad on the bottom of the frame. Since it is only one pad you can only remove a half inch of padding from it. I know this doesn't sound good, but you really don't need any adjustments IMO. It fits great regardless.

I'll try to add some pics later tonite if I can and I plan to give you guys a more up to date review of it when I get some miles put in on it, but as of right now I am pretty stoked.

 

[General Lee]

-Another thing I loved about the AP brace is the fact that the front pad rests on your chest and NOT on your collarbone (which the leatt does).

I won't argue with your review as I've yet to try the BNS, except for the point quoted. A properly fitted Leatt (and it is not hard to fit) should also sit on your chest, NOT on you collarbone.

 

[Raingauge]

What helmet are you using with your AP brace?

 

[strizzle]

I'm using a 661 flight helemet, its a DOT approved helemet

 

[BigHitComp04]

The back still hit alittle but was only in extreme rear head movements, and I am told that all neck braces do that to some degree regardless of make or model.

Isnt the purpose of neck braces to restrict extreme backwards head movements so that you dont break your neck?

 

[strizzle]

Theres a whole other thread about all this on RM that tells you why different neck brace companies design thier braces a certain way, but to me I need to be able to look up when I ride so I couldn't ride with the leatt

 

[Huck Banzai]

Isnt the purpose of neck braces to restrict extreme backwards head movements so that you dont break your neck?

Restricts range and reduces/transfers compression loads - backward, forward or 'straight' compression.

Having broken my neck 2x backwards (that explains a lot huh? err, or not.) While I never want to do that again, forwards is the one that scares me! I don't know the bio mechanics, statistics, etc.. but in my experience, those that had there head/neck tuck forward wound up in the worst shape!

I am going to have to get a Leatt for next season (or rather, ASAP) - Ive been reassured, but am still concerned about fit because I have an ENORMOUS head (I wear an HJC CLX5 in XXXL) and my skinny and long neck. Im still going to 'risk' the purchase, and worst case scenario cant use it and have to sell.

Any big headed, long necked giraffe type folks out there with a leatt and feedback?

 

[strizzle]

dude, get the AP brace!!! Its more specifically designed to prevent forward head movements. They did all these crazy tests with cadavers and it showed that extreme forward head movements are the ones that cause you to break you neck more often than rearward or side to side movements.

 

[Welshy.]

dude, get the AP brace!!! Its more specifically designed to prevent forward head movements. They did all these crazy tests with cadavers and it showed that extreme forward head movements are the ones that cause you to break you neck more often than rearward or side to side movements.

Sorry, that's not true.

The Alpinestars Bionic SB is designed to do one thing, and one thing only. This is to protect compression fractures of the neck. Through their research with cadavers they came to the conclusion that compression fractures were the only ones that put the person at risk of paralysis of any description.

The Bionic SB is not designed to protect against side to side, forwards, or rearwards movement of the head.

Alpinestars believe that it is better for the neck brace to not interfere with the body's natural shock absorption in that instance, which is why it only protects against compression.

Whilst their research and view of this situation may be all well and good, there is still no proof to support or discard their theory, so until then, I'm sticking with the Leatt.

 

[General Lee]

dude, get the AP brace!!! Its more specifically designed to prevent forward head movements. They did all these crazy tests with cadavers and it showed that extreme forward head movements are the ones that cause you to break you neck more often than rearward or side to side movements.

Wrong again man. twice in the same thread . . . nice

Your head rolling forward is hyper-flexion, not compression. Compressions is when your head and torso are pushed together with little head rotation in any direction.

I think you misunderstood:

"Their [Alpinestars] aim is to protect against one thing and one thing only: catastrophic neck injury as a result of compression. According to years of their own research not only utilizing crash test dummies, but human cadavers as well, Alpinestars identified compression as the only form of impact that will likely result in catastrophic neck injury, meaning paralysis or death. In all other forms of impact, they prefer to let your body protect itself through its own natural movement.

“It only comes into play when compression is going to take place, which is the head compressing down toward the torso, or the torso compressing toward the head,” Tim Collins of Alpinestars said. “The way we designed this with the low-swoop neck, low-swoop back, and real thin sidebars is because we want to encourage movement to take place. We want the head to move out of the way of the torso naturally, if possible. Other systems that are out there might have really wide side bars; they may come up higher in the back, or come up higher in the front so that the helmet’s constantly in contact with it regardless of which way the head’s moving. This is really designed contrary to that in that the only time we want it to come into play is compression. Other than that, we want the head to naturally move out of the way because the only time the only time you’re really going to suffer a catastrophic injury – paralysis, death – is at compression."

I'm not passing judgment on their interpretation of the science involved, just quoting what Alpinestars has to say about their chosen design.

 

[rollertoaster]

really??? were starting this again? Wasn't there already a 1000 page argument thread on this topic?

 

[General Lee]

really??? were starting this again? Wasn't there already a 1000 page argument thread on this topic?

I'd say it's less a case of arguing and more a case of people who have trouble reading and understanding really simple English . . . that or they just make stuff up? I can't figure it out.

 

[bizutch]

I'd say it's less a case of arguing and more a case of people who have trouble reading and understanding really simple English . . . that or they just make stuff up? I can't figure it out.

to heck with all this nonsense and spine stuff....pics!!!

 

[yuroshek]

my BNS is faster because its red and has carbon on it. automatic win.

 

[chuckie]

grave dig!! can someone post some pics of the AS BNS when its being worn?

 

[Raingauge]

grave dig!! can someone post some pics of the AS BNS when its being worn?

I can post more if you need them.

 

[bizutch]

Double grave dig. Anybody witness Dungey having to rip his Leatt off 5 laps from the finish because it came unbuckled? I'm sure he just didn't click it good, but still freakish to see mid-race. Not as odd as Miss Implants trying to interview Villipoto in the middle of a mechanical mid-race and seeing just his eyes go "W T F!!!", but still it surprised me for sure.

 

[bizutch]

Seeing your Bionic with the D2 from the side, I can tell one thing. It wouldn't stop your head from rotating backwards at all. You'd be looking at your butt crack inverted before that thing stopped your head.

 

[Raingauge]

Seeing your Bionic with the D2 from the side, I can tell one thing. It wouldn't stop your head from rotating backwards at all. You'd be looking at your butt crack inverted before that thing stopped your head.

Alpinestars designed it that way. They want you to still have mobility to roll out of a crash and only protect against compression injuries. Their design was based off testing cadavers and looking at which injuries are most likely to cause paralysis.

There is a good thread on here with some articles explaining the different theories behind each manufacturers design.

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/industry-news/2009/11/04/neck-protection-let-s-talk-about-it/1

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/industry-news/2009/11/04/neck-protection-let-s-talk-about-it-2/1

My head will rotate back quite far which is nice for steep trails, but my helmet bottoms out before it becomes uncomfortable.

 

[jvnixon]

Double grave dig. Anybody witness Dungey having to rip his Leatt off 5 laps from the finish because it came unbuckled? I'm sure he just didn't click it good, but still freakish to see mid-race. Not as odd as Miss Implants trying to interview Villipoto in the middle of a mechanical mid-race and seeing just his eyes go "W T F!!!", but still it surprised me for sure.

haha yea even the announcer in the booth was taken aback. Oh she's gonna try and interview him right now Dungey said he forgot to buckle it (leatt)

 

[yuroshek]

Seeing your Bionic with the D2 from the side, I can tell one thing. It wouldn't stop your head from rotating backwards at all. You'd be looking at your butt crack inverted before that thing stopped your head.

this is so true! that guy is wearing the A*'s brace for looks right about now. that D2 lid wont do anything for him.

If you are going to get an Alpinestars Brace make sure you link it with a moto helmet or else your just wasting money.

here is a picture of me wearing mine:

 

[Dox]

this is so true! that guy is wearing the A*'s brace for looks right about now. that D2 lid wont do anything for him.

If you are going to get an Alpinestars Brace make sure you link it with a moto helmet or else your just wasting money.

here is a picture of me wearing mine:

So this is the bike we are not supposed to see?

I love the manitou sticker on the RC4

Edit: I've just saw the release on Vital. I gess we can see it now

 

[yuroshek]

yup its out now! enjoy!

 

[Raingauge]

this is so true! that guy is wearing the A*'s brace for looks right about now. that D2 lid wont do anything for him.

If you are going to get an Alpinestars Brace make sure you link it with a moto helmet or else your just wasting money.

here is a picture of me wearing mine:

QUOTE]

Did you even read the articles? The Alpinestars brace is not designed to protect against anything but compression.

If you want to protect against neck roll wear a Leatt if you want to protect against just compression look at the Alpinestars brace.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225668&highlight=alpinestars&page=3

 

[Trekrules]

Friday im buying the Alpinestars BNS just because it will work so much better for my MX helmet.Now i have discoverd with my own experience that the Leatt brace sucks for wearing a MX helmet and it doesn't give me maximum head movement.I felt so restricted with the Leatt brace with my helmet on.

Seeing yuroshek pictures with his MX helmet on with the Alpinestars,it makes so much sense that it's made for a MX helmet.

 

[bizutch]

Alpinestars designed it that way. They want you to still have mobility to roll out of a crash and only protect against compression injuries. Their design was based off testing cadavers and looking at which injuries are most likely to cause paralysis.

There is a good thread on here with some articles explaining the different theories behind each manufacturers design.

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/industry-news/2009/11/04/neck-protection-let-s-talk-about-it/1

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/industry-news/2009/11/04/neck-protection-let-s-talk-about-it-2/1

My head will rotate back quite far which is nice for steep trails, but my helmet bottoms out before it becomes uncomfortable.

I wasn't stating anything positive or negative, just the obvious with the D2 on. The pic just illustrates that the D2 has mondo clearance and that the rear wing is relatively useless if you're using the D2.

Both systems are flawed because they aren't designed for use with a specific brand of helmet with a specific set of measurements. Every helmet out there, moto or MTB is going to have different variations on how it contacts a Leatt or Alpinestars.

I very much want to wear one, b/c if you saw my one vertebrae from a compression fracture as a kid, it looks like that line on Charlie brown's sweater. I just don't like the idea of the helmet being an absolute unknown.

Seriously, what brand helmet did each use to determine their designs? Otherwise, I'm just sticking some brand helmet on and hoping it matches up.

 

[Raingauge]

Both systems are flawed and no system will ever be perfect. You can't compare the two (Leatt or Alpinestars) or say something isn't going to work when they are designed to protect in different ways based on different theories

I bought the Alpinestars brace for the clearance. They say to set it up with minimum 1.5" between the helmet base and the shoulder section of the brace. With my D2 its just over 1.5" from the helmet base to the brace.

I tried a Leatt and it didn't have enough clearance. I figured this was a good compromise; it protects against compression and give me enough range of motion.

 

[klunky]

I'm confused by this. If the Alpine* BNS is only designed to stop a compression force then why does it have the fin thing on the rear?
I tried one on today with a Fox rampage helmet and standing in the shop tilting my head back and forth there was a definite contact with the rear and front of the brace.
I am no expert in the field but it definitely felt like it would help prevent Axio-loading, hyper-flexion, lateral and hyperextension.
Can anyone who understands braces comment on this?

 

[Bikael Molton]

If the Alpine* BNS is only designed to stop a compression force then why does it have the fin thing on the rear?

same question here.

 

[yuroshek]

I'm confused by this. If the Alpine* BNS is only designed to stop a compression force then why does it have the fin thing on the rear?
I tried one on today with a Fox rampage helmet and standing in the shop tilting my head back and forth there was a definite contact with the rear and front of the brace.
I am no expert in the field but it definitely felt like it would help prevent Axio-loading, hyper-flexion, lateral and hyperextension.
Can anyone who understands braces comment on this?

Dude i know exactly what you are talkin about but obv. everyone on here had some part inventing the god damn thing and of course im wrong. It even states that the fin is suppose to break off in major impact to help reduce severe injury.

Lets put it this way, if you have a D2 on and the A*;s brace and you put your head all the way back you will NOT touch, to me this might result in a definite broken neck or serious injury.

Now if you have a Moto lid on and put your head all the way back you will touch, with my common sense this seems as if it would HELP in SOME WAY or another. To me if you wore a D2 lid with this it wouldnt do anything.

D2=leatt
Moto=alpinestars

but what would i know? i didnt help invent it but i do have time on both neck braces. But dont take my word.

 

[davec113]

You could compress your head with it tilted forward or backward, and anything you put in front or back of the helmet is going to limit range of motion somewhat. My helmet actually contacts my spine protector when I'm riding a steep section of trail.

I have a mx helmet, and will probably buy the a* brace. I've been waffling because my Race Face armor jacket has good back, chest and shoulder protection that I don't want to get rid of completely, it seems like these braces need to be designed into an armor jacket but instead the brace designers have no clue people want full spine coverage a jacket provides... I'm leaning toward getting a back protector and cutting it off where the a* brace interferes.

 

[klunky]

Any Idea if the D3 helmet will work well with an A* brace?

 

[bizutch]

..... I'm leaning toward getting a back protector and cutting it off where the a* brace interferes.

wouldn't it be simpler to get the 661 that has the removable upper pads?

 

[klunky]

Dear,



The situation with the Bionic Neck Support is that it is optimized to deal with compression forces, but does not only prevent compression forces.



We have concentrated on compression because at the end of the day it is this injury which can lead to a fracture of the neck. The other injury modes you list such as hyperflexion and hyperextension do not cause the neck to fracture but instead cause a muscular injury to the neck.

You are right that by being able to touch your helmet on the front and back of the frame then the potential severity of a muscular injury would be reduced.



Kind regards.

Email I got back from alpine stars.

 

[yuroshek]

damn... a little common sense goes a long way...

good to know i wasnt just making sh!t up.

 

[Raingauge]

I rode some steep stuff last weekend with my D2 and my BNS on. I could feel my helmet touching the rear of the brace.

It wasn't enough to bother me, just enough for me to know it was there.

 

[MarkDH]

We have concentrated on compression because at the end of the day it is this injury which can lead to a fracture of the neck. The other injury modes you list such as hyperflexion and hyperextension do not cause the neck to fracture but instead cause a muscular injury to the neck

Sorry, but this just doesn't sit right with me, even though I assume Alpinestars worked with medical professionals to design their brace. I'm not a doctor, but a quick look at some relevant sites such as this one

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/824380-overview

suggest that vertebrae can fracture in pretty much all types of injury. In fact the first one they have there is flexion, with three different possible types of fracture. For me, this looks like it's BS from AS. As I said I'm not a doctor, but my gf is studying medicine so I will ask her about it and have a look through some of her textbooks.

 

[Raingauge]

Crashed at the Western Open 2 weeks ago in practice and snapped the wing on my A*'s brace. It didn't seem like a bad crash just kind of awkward. I landed with my head slightly turned when I hit the ground. I didn't even know it was broken until I got to the bottom and tried to take it off.

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/7010532/


http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/7010535/


Need to buy a new one before my next race.

 

[norbar]

I like mine and it works quite nice with dainese armor and poc helmet but the shoulder pads end up faaar behind my shoulders on mine for some stupid reason.

 

[cecil]

i have a fly racing f2 helmet and a the a*brace, i can feel the helmet touching the back of the brace on steep trails.

i can rotate my head front to back, side to side and touch the helmet to the brace easily.

imo if you go head first to the ground the first force would be compression, then your body would follow the path of least resistance causing the neck to hyper-extend

if your at an angle that would not cause compression on the neck the smooth round helmet should help deflect your head and not cause extreme compression or hyper extension.

i also feel mx helmet is the only way to go why put a less protection over your brain