Alpine touring skis
- Thread starter Toshi
- Start date
correct, shoulder the skis and walk. ex: at Loveland their #9 chair accesses a bunch of good steeps, but most require a 5-20 minute hike.
lean on your heels for more traction from your skins
leaning forward takes the pressure off the back of your skis where it's most effective
leaning forward takes the pressure off the back of your skis where it's most effective
This.
Also - stomping a bit on each step can get a little extra traction on hard surfaces... like groomers.
I think I'll just avoid things that steep. top section in question isn't groomed, btw.
anyway, my overall experience was indifferent to good. was very much what I was expecting, and on this spring conditions day with no fresh snow it was a perfectly acceptable alternative to carving up groomers, and better exercise by far.
top section in question isn't groomed, btw.anyway, my overall experience was indifferent to good. was very much what I was expecting, and on this spring conditions day with no fresh snow it was a perfectly acceptable alternative to carving up groomers, and better exercise by far.
So you were skinning up between the moguls on the top section?I think I'll just avoid things that steep.
yesSo you were skinning up between the moguls on the top section?
i haz teh dumb. wasn't too mogul-y by the trees, left as one ascends. but that is the section. was trying to make it a straight shot to continue on to Whistlestop
Well that was a shitty tour. 7F degrees at start and 10 at the end (not the shitty part). Skins wouldn't stick and just got worse and worse over more transitions (while sticking them under my shirt...not jacket, shirt) to try and get the snow off. I'm thinking that the shop didn't wax them like they claim they did. But that's just the beginning. I hate the kingpin bindings. The tech binding is shit, it won't hold on any sidehill or steep hill. The heel riser keeps collapsing (with brand new brake/riser units) and the brakes don't stay. Then, the riser simply doesn't rise up very much, so it makes climbing MUCH harder, compared to my frame bindings. I measured this and they give you about 8.4° vs. the frame bindings at 14°. That's a giant different, damn near half as much. So despite being a more "AT" style binding...it ends up sucking more at AT.
We got a bunch of new cold snow, rare for this time of year. Vis was bad though, so it wasn't very ripping.
We got a bunch of new cold snow, rare for this time of year. Vis was bad though, so it wasn't very ripping.
What size boot?
Also, what do you mean the heel riser keeps collapsing? Don’t the Kingpin’s heel risers flip down into position, meaning they can’t “collapse” ? And I thought the risers and the brakes and risers are separate on the Kingpin.
All your issues sound like Shift issues, not Kingpin ones.
Also, what do you mean the heel riser keeps collapsing? Don’t the Kingpin’s heel risers flip down into position, meaning they can’t “collapse” ? And I thought the risers and the brakes and risers are separate on the Kingpin.
All your issues sound like Shift issues, not Kingpin ones.
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Just looked back through the thread… not Kingpins. Duke PT. Carry on.
(I don’t know shit about that binding)
(I don’t know shit about that binding)
Yeah, Duke PT. The brake doesn't stay locked down, it uses a little hook that just barely "clips" onto a metal plate below the brake, when the brake doesn't stay locked down, it allows the heel riser to flip around, so it basically ends up that you are dragging the brakes and the heel riser has fallen. I had this problem originally, bought new brakes because I thought maybe I bent them stomping around all day on my first outing without turning the little flip lever correctly, but nope, they just don't stay locked down. They'll lock initially, but a little while later, you find they've come off. It may just be if ANY snow gets in there, it stops this shit from functioning, but that's a cop-out, that's the whole point, to have shit that functions in snow or can be knocked clean easily.What size boot?
Also, what do you mean the heel riser keeps collapsing? Don’t the Kingpin’s heel risers flip down into position, meaning they can’t “collapse” ? And I thought the risers and the brakes and risers are separate on the Kingpin.
All your issues sound like Shift issues, not Kingpin ones.
They are also supposed to be a 10 degree riser, but I'm only measuring 8.4, as compared to the tour bindings in the picture above.
It looks like they fixed these issues on the 2023s, but that's the point, they were supposed to deliver an AT-like uphill experience and the only advantage over the Tour in reality is the better ski flex on the downhill, because they suck so much uphill. The pin mechanism at the toe was also jamming bad/not engaging and I was coming out on all the uphill steeps and sidehills.
The 2023 has a redesigned brake locking mechanism and riser mechanism, totally different from the earlier ones. So I'll take this shit back to REI for not working.
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Yeah that’s definitely not as much. Even the Shift has ~3° more rise.
Frame bindings won’t care how long your boot is, since the heel riser holds the frame up and it’s a fixed length. But on other bindings (tech included) where the heel and toe piece are separate, longer boots will have less rise.
I wonder if the “10° rise” is based on a smaller boot than yours?
Maybe...but approximately 1/2 rise comparatively is a huge hit. My abductors are sore today like they haven't been in a long time and I had to take skis off in a few places just because I couldn't get up the damn slope. The 2023 Kingpin PT is claiming 7 and 13 degree aids, but that's a good point that it may depend on your boot length.
I'm having to cut in switchbacks where normally I could just go straight up....and I still cut in switchbacks when it's just ridiculous, but it's not even that steep.
I didn't even try measuring the "mid" setting on my frame bindings, but I'd bet it's real close to 8 degrees.
Can you fit the 2023 brake/riser assembly on your version? That might be better.
Regarding your toe not holding on sidehilled skin tracks… my Shifts have a lever that you have to pull up/back on when in walk mode to “lock” the toe in for climbing. They have two clicks to get fully locked, and getting the lever all the way to the second click point is really really difficult at first, so much so that some people don’t even know there’s the second click and don’t use it, then have their toes pop out while skinning uphill. Any chance the DukePT has some similar nonsense going on? Maybe you’re not getting the toes fully locked?
Oh yes, it has a lever that you pull up to "lock" it...it just doesn't lock very much with snow in it evidently. It was noticeably weaker on one side. I was checking how much engagement the pins get after the tour and it looks like snow was mainly blocking the mech and keeping it from closing enough. If there was a way to adjust the tension or something that might help.
But no, I don't think there's any compatibility between the new and old style brake/riser. It's totally redesigned, works 100% different mechanically. Now the riser is integrated into the rear binding instead of the brake and the brake is locked by a lever similar to my tour bindings, rather than a little hook catch. Just totally different.
Pin bindings not locking very well when snow or ice gets in there isn’t a new thing or unique to your bindings, I suspect.
Sound like you already noticed the #6 tip on that list (snow jammed in binding itself) but #7 (ice or snow buildup in the boot tech fittings) can be real as well. I generally always do the “swinging your foot so the binding pins pivot in the holes” dance before I lock down for skinning or skiing.
Maybe that helps? Maybe you already know this stuff?
10 Tips to Prevent Tech Binding Pre-Release - The Backcountry Ski Touring Blog
Advances in tech bindings have led many of us to trust them with blind faith, but binding pre-release can still happen. Here, Lou's 10 tips to prevent it.
www.wildsnow.com
Sound like you already noticed the #6 tip on that list (snow jammed in binding itself) but #7 (ice or snow buildup in the boot tech fittings) can be real as well. I generally always do the “swinging your foot so the binding pins pivot in the holes” dance before I lock down for skinning or skiing.
Maybe that helps? Maybe you already know this stuff?
Always carry a couple of heli straps. Heck, I usually have one in my pocket even skiing inbounds.
Which if it was the ONLY issue, I'd probably ok overcoming it, carrying a wire brush or something, etc. But the issue with the brake and risers is a non-starter. It's bad. Brake lock doesn't stay engaged, pops off, heel riser falls down, heel riser only goes to 8.4, even putting the heel riser on is a big PITA, you have to be like gumbi-man to do it, you can unlock it with your pole, but you have to twist it forward with your hand, which is freaking hard (and contributes to coming out of the pin bindings) when in bindings, so it's more like a "set before putting the damn ski on", rather than adjust as needed. Really bad design IMO. Again, it delivers so poorly on walking/hiking/climbing that the original premise is totally missed, despite shaving some weight.Pin bindings not locking very well when snow or ice gets in there isn’t a new thing or unique to your bindings, I suspect.
10 Tips to Prevent Tech Binding Pre-Release - The Backcountry Ski Touring Blog
Advances in tech bindings have led many of us to trust them with blind faith, but binding pre-release can still happen. Here, Lou's 10 tips to prevent it.www.wildsnow.com
Sound like you already noticed the #6 tip on that list (snow jammed in binding itself) but #7 (ice or snow buildup in the boot tech fittings) can be real as well. I generally always do the “swinging your foot so the binding pins pivot in the holes” dance before I lock down for skinning or skiing.
Maybe that helps? Maybe you already know this stuff?
Yeah they sound like an even bigger pain in the ass than the Shift. Which TBH, I actually have very few personal complaints about. But have heard plenty of stories from other people that do have issues with them. Single heel riser being one of them… though it’s about 10° and I can make it work most of the time. At least I can raise and lower it with a ski pole handle.
Also in full disclosure, I no longer only have skis with Shifts on them. I have a pair of skis with actual touring (tech) bindings for most of the time I tour. I’ll still occasionally do short tours or sidecountry on the Shifts, and they’re great for travel if I can only take one pair of skis. Otherwise, full tech binding.
Also in full disclosure, I no longer only have skis with Shifts on them. I have a pair of skis with actual touring (tech) bindings for most of the time I tour. I’ll still occasionally do short tours or sidecountry on the Shifts, and they’re great for travel if I can only take one pair of skis. Otherwise, full tech binding.
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Yep - I always have two of those handy little m'f'rs in my jacket pocket.
I use them to bind the tips when hiking distances at a resort (Highland Bowl, Kachina, etc.).
Generally this for me as well. A heli strap and a climbing sling can be used to carry skis in a cross body fashion. Useful if you have a longer or steeper hike where having both your hands or poles is helpful.
But you can use them for other shit as well. A couple longer heli straps and a ski pole could be a makeshift splint. A heli strap might hold a two piece pole together if the locking mechanism fails. Or you could use it to hold your brakes out of the way if you’re skinning uphill.
Yep - I can *imagine* a whole myriad of inbounds uses for them... fortunately, to date, I've only "needed" them for the hiking.
They're one of those things that will always sit in the bottom of one of my jacket pockets...
See?!!? Lots of useful things you can do with them.
Snowed pretty good this morning, so I took the old setup after work to a tour that a buddy did the day before in the trees. It was excellent. Old setup is dialed and there's no way I would have been able to climb the tour on the new setup. Would have been nice to have the new skis in the trees, but was still a great tour in fresh snow.
I think 'woo has been reading Powder magazine... https://www.powder.com/trending-news/monoskiing-comeback
btw, this part of your post has me confused:
what's better, in your opinion?!
As an adult, I have no problems with under-jacket-sleeve gloves/mitts. in fact, I find they keep snow out better. only issue for me are those lycra thumb-hole thingies - they're a hassle when you're wearing a watch.
For my kids, over-jacket glove and mitt gauntlets are superior. Much less hassle.
I just remember a few years ago, snowboard apparel companies started making gloves with thinner longer cuffs, saying these were now 'under sleeve' gloves. That term had never existed/been used before. It was pretty obvious that snowboard companies (who if you remember pretty much created wide spread gauntlet use because of hand dragging while riding) just needed something new to sell since they'd been selling the same designs for 30 years. They created nothing, every kid with a pair of gloves had done this for years because duh, obvious.
If your goal is keeping snow out, nothing touches a long gauntlet. If you're not in the kind of snow where it matters, meh.
Gauntlets seem to act like snow-funnels to me. Even when you take care to set them down somewhere not in the snow, the snow still seems to get in there somehow. But I generally don't want to be screwing around with under-jacket stuff either. I just like heavy-duty leather stuff. For touring I have some leather gloves that have pretty good leather, but minimal insulation. Backup mittens in the pack, but I want to change these out to down mittens for packing size and see if that works well.