[Toshi]

I get what you guys are saying, but why must having an airbag be equated with higher risk tolerance? One could be conservative in tolerance, and have the airbag as well.

Kinda like having a Land Cruiser also with Nokians, if you will

 

[Toshi]

Btw, one of my buddies from fellowship at UW used to be at U of Utah and would spend all year at his house in Park City. He died several years back in an avalanche from head trauma, despite an airbag, lots of time, lots of training. He was skiing with a buddy who was an Exum guide iirc, so no slouch. I don’t know their risk taking behaviors though.

 

[kidwoo]

Btw, one of my buddies from fellowship at UW used to be at U of Utah and would spend all year at his house in Park City. He died several years back in an avalanche from head trauma, despite an airbag, lots of time, lots of training. He was skiing with a buddy who was an Exum guide iirc, so no slouch. I don’t know their risk taking behaviors though.

I know the 'why not both' approach from your post right before this seems to make sense if you've never hiked with one, but you haven't done that yet. Here's why not: they take up space that can otherwise be used for another lighter or heavier jacket, a spare pair of dry gloves or goggles, a pair of dry socks, maps, survival blanket, headlamp........it all adds up. You can die in the mountains in many ways but an avalanche is just one of them. And that one ALWAYS depends on the choices you make.

Something a lot of people who spend lots of time in the mountains in winter know: there are two types of people who get in avalanches.....people who know nothing, and people who think they know everything. The minute you think you can 'manage' risk because of your vast understanding is the day you die due to something you didn't consider.

Airbags create a false sense of security for both types, and that's why you're getting some of the responses you are. Like avalanche beacons, they're not a failsafe. You can't gear buy your way out of being a dumbass. You carry a beacon/shovel/probe because they're light and simple, not because they'll save you. Your brain does 99% of that, the beeper/poker/scooper are minimally invasive necessities for a brain fuckup. Same with airbags except they're not light and easy. In fact, they compromise a lot of the other things that might help save your life.

 

[Toshi]

Ok, that makes sense. Shall scratch off the REI wish list.

 

[Toshi]

Ok, ‘woo: is my Mindbender 108 Ti with Tectons plan stupid or what? Got 7 days to decide whether Powder7 gets my monies for good or not.

 

[kidwoo]

Ok, ‘woo: is my Mindbender 108 Ti with Tectons plan stupid or what? Got 7 days to decide whether Powder7 gets my monies for good or not.

Depends on what you want to ski. Mindbender 108s are a good "all mountain bike" that kinda does everything okay. The P7s are the dh bike that you only ride in good, soft snow because they make that particular medium as good as it can be. If you want to hike shit in springtime when everyone else is grabbing their mountainbikes, grab the mindbenders.

REI

Scratch REI off the list too. They're responsible for quite a bit of closed mtb trails, and losing potential to build new ones in new and exciting areas.
(and backcountry skiing access too to be honest)

 

[Jm_]

I use a simple to operate and understand BCA transceiver. Jetflow (supercapacitor) tour pack. I like the big wide bca shovels, they are super nice for cutting blocks. I want to do some tours alone and figured the airbag pack was a good idea. Most serious alpine tour people around here have some type of airbag system. You dont need one, but it greatly improves odds of surviving if you get caught in one. Yes, an awareness/rescue course is essential.

 

[Jm_]

I know the 'why not both' approach from your post right before this seems to make sense if you've never hiked with one, but you haven't done that yet. Here's why not: they take up space that can otherwise be used for another lighter or heavier jacket, a spare pair of dry gloves or goggles, a pair of dry socks, maps, survival blanket, headlamp........it all adds up. You can die in the mountains in many ways but an avalanche is just one of them. And that one ALWAYS depends on the choices you make.

Something a lot of people who spend lots of time in the mountains in winter know: there are two types of people who get in avalanches.....people who know nothing, and people who think they know everything. The minute you think you can 'manage' risk because of your vast understanding is the day you die due to something you didn't consider.

Airbags create a false sense of security for both types, and that's why you're getting some of the responses you are. Like avalanche beacons, they're not a failsafe. You can't gear buy your way out of being a dumbass. You carry a beacon/shovel/probe because they're light and simple, not because they'll save you. Your brain does 99% of that, the beeper/poker/scooper are minimally invasive necessities for a brain fuckup. Same with airbags except they're not light and easy. In fact, they compromise a lot of the other things that might help save your life.

Survival blankets are useless. I can fit a down jacket and all of that other stuff in my 26L airbag pack.
How the fuck are you changing socks while skiing?

 

[kidwoo]

I use a simple to operate and understand BCA transceiver. Jetflow (supercapacitor) tour pack. I like the big wide bca shovels, they are super nice for cutting blocks. I want to do some tours alone and figured the airbag pack was a good idea. Most serious alpine tour people around here have some type of airbag system. You dont need one, but it greatly improves odds of surviving if you get caught in one. Yes, an awareness/rescue course is essential.

If I lived where you do, I'd use one far more regularly.

re: previous mention of trees and your lack thereof

Survival blankets are useless. I can fit a down jacket and all of that other stuff in my 26L airbag pack.

I'm not talking about that dumb thin mylar shit

You know my point with that post....airbags take up a LOT of space

 

[Jm_]

If I lived where you do, I'd use one far more regularly.

re: previous mention of trees and your lack thereof



I'm not talking about that dumb thin mylar shit

You know my point with that post....airbags take up a LOT of space

IME, smart gear choices and packing easily overcome this. You can store food and handwarmers in your 70 pants and jacket pockets. In my 26L airbag i have a water bottle, goggles, my skins, jacket, mittens, extra clips and straps, cord, snow saw, light, gopro, some other stuff like food and a few heater packs, the usual avy gear, works just fine.

 

[kidwoo]

You can store food and handwarmers in your 70 pants and jacket pockets.

To be fair, this is also what your mountainbike looks like

 

[Jm_]

Still want to know how one would change socks while skiing without dumping snow in the boots or on your socks. Wizard level.

 

[kidwoo]

Still want to know how one would change socks while skiing without dumping snow in the boots or on your socks. Wizard level.

Pretty rare backcountry technique called "sitting on something"

Here we call them trees or rocks. I think where you live they're called 'coast sticks' or 'that lump in the white expanse'


Wait till you found out that we change boots AND socks when sled skiing...

 

[Jm_]

No, we don’t have trees in the alpine. Still, I would pay money to see this attempted.

 

[kidwoo]

No, we don’t have trees in the alpine. Still, I would pay money to see this attempted.

how much money?

Know that your investment comes with a real professional who's done this many times. This is no NFT.

 

[Jm_]

how much money?

Know that your investment comes with a real professionals who's done this many times. This is no NFT.

If you can sit on trees, then how are you skiing pow? Not to mention how difficult it is to maneuver any ski boot. Just doesnt seem practical to change socks. Plus, wool socks shouldnt be cold, just drop some foot heaters on em. They are good for ~4hrs, if you get cold feet.

 

[kidwoo]

If you can sit on trees, then how are you skiing pow? Not to mention how difficult it is to maneuver any ski boot. Just doesnt seem practical to change socks. Plus, wool socks shouldnt be cold, just drop some foot heaters on em. They are good for ~4hrs, if you get cold feet.

How much money?

 

[buckoW]

If you can sit on trees, then how are you skiing pow? Not to mention how difficult it is to maneuver any ski boot. Just doesnt seem practical to change socks. Plus, wool socks shouldnt be cold, just drop some foot heaters on em. They are good for ~4hrs, if you get cold feet.

Practical? Riding a bike in snow when it’s a pow day doesn’t seem practical either.

 

[Jm_]

Practical? Riding a bike in snow when it’s a pow day doesn’t seem practical either.

True…cant be everywhere at once.

 

[Jm_]

How much money?

Three

 

[kidwoo]

Three

bitcoin?


I don't know if you just started BC skiing when you moved to AK or not but taking ski boots on and off while sitting on something is really not that hard.

I get nasty blisters on the inside of my heels both at the beginning of the season and the very end when it's 50 degrees outside when it's hot and we're skiing corn. I keep a dry pair in my pack for falling in creeks mid winter too. I started hiking for turns in 2000. I can promise you it's not that hard, and genuinely pretty easy.

We literally do this all the time to put on ski boots when sled skiing because riding sleds in ski boots in dangerous. But given....when you have a sled you also have a couch

 

[Jm_]

bitcoin?


I don't know if you just started BC skiing when you moved to AK or not but taking ski boots on and off while sitting on something is really not that hard.

I get nasty blisters on the inside of my heels both at the beginning of the season and the very end when it's 50 degrees outside when it's hot and we're skiing corn. I keep a dry pair in my pack for falling in creeks mid winter too. I started hiking for turns in 2000. I can promise you it's not that hard, and genuinely pretty easy.

We literally do this all the time to put on ski boots when sled skiing because riding sleds in ski boots in dangerous. But given....when you have a sled you also have a couch

I guess maybe if its 60 degrees out, but stripping down to that level here would leave my toes frozen all day long or even frostbite.

But i wasnt considering shuttlesledskiing, I was just considering alpine touring. In many places, your pretty exposed up there in the mountains, trees or not and stripping down is just not very realistic. People do fall into water, but similar idea. In most cases, its best to be somewhere you can hike out relatively fast, stripping down to replace a base layer really requires a fire, otherwise you’ll lose more than you’ll gain over any realistic short term (and yes, Ive fallen into a few). Careful route selection to go over substantial snow bridges and avoid traps is generally the best idea. They (creeks) are rarely a surprise.

as far as blisters, sock type and thicknesses makes a big difference for me. If i go too thick with the wrong ones, I get blisters. If I use the right ones, none. Same with my wolfgars and hiking in deep snow. The other obvious is boot fittament. The best boots at going up and down arent worth crap if they are tearing ul your feet constantly.

 

[Nick]

The foil space blanket I have in my pack takes up about as much space as a 1/2 sleeve of oreos. I also have a spare pair of gloves in there. No socks. yet.

@Toshi If you'd like I can lend you the book's SS mentions above. They're really good reading.

 

[kidwoo]

I guess maybe if its 60 degrees out, but stripping down to that level here would leave my toes frozen all day long or even frostbite.

But i wasnt considering shuttlesledskiing, I was just considering alpine touring. In many places, your pretty exposed up there in the mountains, trees or not and stripping down is just not very realistic. People do fall into water, but similar idea. In most cases, its best to be somewhere you can hike out relatively fast, stripping down to replace a base layer really requires a fire, otherwise you’ll lose more than you’ll gain over any realistic short term (and yes, Ive fallen into a few). Careful route selection to go over substantial snow bridges and avoid traps is generally the best idea. They (creeks) are rarely a surprise.

Okay but read my post again....those two aren't the ONLY times I do that.

I get that AK is a little different. But most people aren't skiing in negative eleventy billion, where their only pause is at the top of a treeless mountain where it's the coldest and windiest. Trust me. It ain't that hard. You've taken socks off and on your entire life, you can do it quickly. Ski boots have 4 buckles and come with stiff toe kick removal convenience. You can do this. And quickly.

And if you ever spend the night out there's nothing better than a fresh pair of socks...

 

[Jm_]

But back to changing socks, yeah in my terrain there is just nowhere to do that. There are a few approaches through spruce forest, but you need a bunch of exposed fallen trees. We just dont have that. They are covered deep and deep snow is usually everywhere. It would definitely be worthless for me to carry, when I could put something like my in-reach or 406 in its place.

 

[kidwoo]

But back to changing socks, yeah in my terrain there is just nowhere to do that. There are a few approaches through spruce forest, but you need a bunch of exposed fallen trees. We just dont have that. They are covered deep and deep snow is usually everywhere. It would definitely be worthless for me to carry, when I could put something like my in-reach or 406 in its place.

JFC

If you've never felt the need then don't worry about it.

But I promise you, you can stomp out a spot in some snow with skis and sit on your ass for two minutes

 

[Jm_]

The foil space blanket I have in my pack takes up about as much space as a 1/2 sleeve of oreos. I also have a spare pair of gloves in there. No socks. yet.

@Toshi If you'd like I can lend you the book's SS mentions above. They're really good reading.

In my wilderness first aid they said they are pretty much useless, as a functional warm human will generate a lot of heat, but a hungry, cold or injured one wont and insulation is needed, not reflection. A down jacket packs really small and has a lot of warmth.

 

[Jm_]

JFC

If you've never felt the need then don't worry about it.

But I promise you, you can stomp out a spot in some snow with skis and sit on your ass for two minutes

I can’t put on boots by sitting, takes a combo of sitting and standing and no, after stomping out with skis you sink like 3 feet down when you step off, lol. Like I said, I cant imagine thats practical nor have I ever seen or heard of anyone doing that around here, must be a sierra-thing

 

[kidwoo]

I don't know if you just started BC skiing when you moved to AK or not

"yes"

 

[Jm_]

Are we talking about riding snowmobiles?

 

[kidwoo]

Are we talking about riding snowmobiles?

"no"

My point is that if you've never seriously had to stomp out a spot to deal with:

-broken bindings
-an injury
-stage a rescue
-deal with any number of things where you need to go through your gear


...and think you automatically "sink 3ft into snow" when stepping off your skis...

You probably haven't been doing this for very long.

 

[Jm_]

Yep, we’ve fixed stuff, yep, Ive had stuff break, yep ive had mini-emergencies where I had to use the gear.

You seem to assume that every situation is like yours. Im saying they are not. Fuck, I can’t even do some of the stuff I used to be able to. I wore my snowboarding boots last week on my hok skis and the binding jammed and I had to get out of the boot without releasing the binding. Not to mention how hard those boots to get out of just normally. There was no way i was pulling that off on the trail. Had to be at the car. Maybe i could have broke it off, but wasn’t necessary.

 

[Jm_]

Now its a dick measuring contest.











What we need is a montage.

 

[kidwoo]

You seem to assume that every situation is like yours.

Au contraire. You've stated numerous times how impossible something people do regulary is because of WHERE YOU LIVE. Given the vast treeless expanse of the chugach, I've stated numerous times that I can see the difficulty.

Ski boots are easier to take on and off than LACED snowboard boots any day of the week.


So when you had to fix those bindings, obviously with them not on your feet, did you sink up to your dick just standing there? No. You didn't.

 

[Jm_]

Au contraire. You've stated numerous times how impossible something people do regulary is because of WHERE YOU LIVE. Given the vast treeless expanse of the chugach, I've stated numerous times that I can see the difficulty.

Ski boots are easier to take on and off than LACED snowboard boots any day of the week.


So when you had to fix those bindings, obviously with them not on your feet, did you sink up to your dick just standing there? No. You didn't.

Montage

who said anything about 1980s laced snowboard boots?

and no, i had to do that at my car, on solid ground for leverage.

 

[kidwoo]

Montage

I already know my dick is tiny.

And that I can tackle you and take off your damn ski boot before you even realize it*




*even faster with full tilt boots which I may be able to do while standing




freebee for the no context thread

I already know my dick is tiny.

 

[Jm_]

I already know my dick is tiny.

And that I can tackle you and take off your damn ski boot before you even realize it*




*even faster with full tilt boots which I may be able to do while standing

Just don’t stroke out on RM!

 

[kidwoo]

Just don’t stroke out on RM!

Let me tell you about twitter.....

 

[Westy]

Some friends of mine are big backcountry skiers, they seem like very smart, very careful people. I thought about getting into it. We were all in Mazama for a thing. They were going to hit Washington pass on the way back. We stopped at the ranger station to check on conditions. They were very clear that conditions were dangerous and to avoid the area. In the parking lot was a group of people who just skied it and they were asked about conditions. They were completely oblivious and didn't bother to check anything at all. My friend Oscar decided that the Rangers were wrong and it was going to be fine. I asked what brought him to that conclusion. He said they would only be in the danger area for a few minutes, and he had skied it before with those conditions and it didn't slide.

I decided nope.

 

[Toshi]

Some friends of mine are big backcountry skiers, they seem like very smart, very careful people. I thought about getting into it. We were all in Mazama for a thing. They were going to hit Washington pass on the way back. We stopped at the ranger station to check on conditions. They were very clear that conditions were dangerous and to avoid the area. In the parking lot was a group of people who just skied it and they were asked about conditions. They were completely oblivious and didn't bother to check anything at all. My friend Oscar decided that the Rangers were wrong and it was going to be fine. I asked what brought him to that conclusion. He said they would only be in the danger area for a few minutes, and he had skied it before with those conditions and it didn't slide.

I decided nope.

You know if I get out in there I'll be digging holes to check layers and going full nerd on it, not winging it because of a sense of invincibility.

(But what I really foresee myself doing is in-bounds slogs across the Cirque or just to kill half the day while Shared Skittles skis Iron Horse talks about skiing Iron Horse. )