Alpine touring skis
- Thread starter Toshi
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Or inside the snow pit, after digging for 20 min.
That you've used such long skis relative to height is highly intriguing to me.
I'm 174 cm. My Mindbender 108s are 179 cm and have a pretty long effective edge. (I had 190 cm Moment Bibbys for a hot minute, too, and hated them. Felt too long, chattered, didn't feel stable. I skied a day with Shared Skittles at Copper with them and didn't feel right on them at all.)
The Dispatch 110 comes in a 184 cm and the 120 in a 186 cm, and both of those have quite a bit of tail and especially tip rocker, so would have a shorter effective edge. In this Blister video (that I finally indeed had time for, watching now), the lead Blister review dude and Paul Forward (my med school classmate! up in Alaska) liked the 120 mm x 186 cm one in bounds at Crested Butte. this piques my interest hmmmmm
I should demo a Dispatch 110 or 120 with my alpine boots.
This TGR forum post is also of note, too, as it's one of the designers apparently!
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/347485-K2-Dispatch-series?p=6795084#post6795084
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/347485-K2-Dispatch-series?p=6795084#post6795084
Johnny Drama on TGR said:
yes. Current take-it-slow plan:
- let Christy Sports (satisfaction guarantee through end of next season!) try to fit AT boots to my feet on March 13, the next suitable weekday free time for that
- rent or borrow an AT setup and use it for very safe and boring uphill access within WP for a day
- wait for Blister to publish reviews
- ???
- profit
Sure.
Blister isn't going to make your decision for you just fyi. There were plenty of good skis with the same shapes saturating the market 10+ years ago. There are plenty out there right now, even sitting on craigslist and in consignment shops that would work great. You just need to go try stuff. Blister's reviews are also pretty resort/beat snow-centric. I used to write for them when they first started and still kinda keep in touch with the owner. They do a decent job but it's no gospel
Like FT already said, you can also just go rent some skis with frame bindings and hike in the boots you have. You can also rent boots if you want to try a pin toe hiking setup. At this rate you'll be buying skis in september.
I'd just figure out if you even like hiking first. It's a lot of work, can be really annoying, and buying 2k in gear before you've ever even skinned up something is kinda stupid. Although it does make you the ski industry dream come true....
Get your boots figured out then start rentin' and demoin'
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Just pick up some cheap snow shoes and try that first
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Just pick up some cheap snow shoes and try that first
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These Red Clown Shoes will add some pizzazz to your clown fit. How can you be taken funnily if you don't have large red shoes flapping around? Stop clowning around and buy them already.
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Just remember that whenever you hear someone use the idea of 'quiet recreation' when some skier group tries to ban snowmobiles somewhere.
Those who know, know
I mean, "loud" skins on icy snow are several orders of magnitude quieter than snowmobiles, to be fairJust remember that whenever you hear someone use the idea of 'quiet recreation' when some skier group tries to ban snowmobiles somewhere.
Those who know, know
anyway, that was actually a good video. many thank, 6th
Dude seemed like a bit of a terror going downhill for the other peoples, or at least I'd be afraid.
Very recently retired pro roadie, hasn't been skiing long iirc as he couldn't risk injury while still in the pro peloton.
to be fair, wait till you get out on some wind hammered styrofoam shit with skins and cold squeaky boots before taking some kind of stand on two things you have very little experience with
A snowmobile with stock exhaust is NOT orders of magnitude louder. And that shit passes, you're stuck with that other cacophony on your feet all day.
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yes but in all fairness, @Toshi will likely only deal with that once, maybe twice.to be fair, wait till you get out on some wind hammered styrofoam shit with skins and cold squeaky boots before taking some kind of stand on two things you have very little experience with
A snowmobile with stock exhaust is NOT orders of magnitude louder. And that shit passes, you're stuck with that other cacophony on your feet all day.
I've heard plenty of ATV/UTV exhausts, and those are fundamentally the same engines/exhausts, no?to be fair, wait till you get out on some wind hammered styrofoam shit with skins and cold squeaky boots before taking some kind of stand on two things you have very little experience with
A snowmobile with stock exhaust is NOT orders of magnitude louder. And that shit passes, you're stuck with that other cacophony on your feet all day.
Sound & Environment Research-American Council of Snowmobile Associations (ACSA) Uniting the Snowmobile Community
The American Council of Snowmobile Associations (ACSA) is a national organization that was formed to unite the snowmobile community.
www.snowmobilers.org
73 dB isn't bad. but at 50 feet there's just no way in hell that skins can be that loud. physics is physics.
Nope. Those are 4 strokes. And since you obviously possess great experience, tell me which way those exhaust mufflers point and now tell me which way snowmobile exhaust mufflers point. Which one points at a muffling medium once exiting the vehicle?
Yes you've heard loud sleds, everyone has. But those are not stock exhausts which is why I said what I said. But 'snowmobiles are loud' is about like saying 'mountainbikers are reckless and run over hikers'.
Some, yes, but neither is a phenomenon inherent in the activity. The person who owns that one is just an asshole.
I've done one of those activities for almost a quarter of a century and the other for 15 years, so I look forward to more lessons from someone who knows fuck all about either
Are you really asserting that at a given fixed distance a non-idling snowmobile is quieter or as quiet as someone skinning uphill?
Is this true, other people of relevant experience but less opinionation than kidwoo? If so then I will stand 100% corrected.
Is this true, other people of relevant experience but less opinionation than kidwoo? If so then I will stand 100% corrected.
no
That's not what I said at all. What I said was that people (usually calling themselves skiers) using 'quiet' as a means to get snowmobiles off public land, are being incredibly dishonest because all that cold plastic and funky snow is actually loud as shit.....which you noted yourself.
No a WOT sled is can be heard a few hundred feet away. All I was saying was that hiking gear is often really god damn loud and annoying......and then tangentially, most sleds made in the last 10 years are definitely not those obnoxious whiny things you can hear from across a valley when winds are calm and snow is consolidated.
The problem in my ears is the noise situation is a human condition/situation. If you don't want noise, BC ski where 'bilers are not allowed. We have a group here called The MT BC Alliance and lift themselves above others via their purity in movement, both quiet and under their own power. I sent them several articles (many years ago)on some research in the Teton's vicinity RE: elk and wolverines and the impacts of slow quiet skiers and 'bilers moving through habitat. Some wolverines were tagged with GPS and HR units. The slower and quiet skiers caused HR increases as well as greater movement and greater energy expenditure of some wolverines. If I remember correctly, the 'bilers caused less of each. I need to find the paper(s) and see if there are any updates etc. Anyone else know what I am talking about?
I know exactly what you're talking about. A coworker out of our helena office helped the research team set some of that stuff up. Same with reindeer and other large ungulates in sweden. And lynx in CO and ID.....
I can tell you without a doubt that most animals don't even recognize you on a sled, but the second you step off, you move like an animal and hence may be a predator.
We get kicked out of places for an assumed disturbance when the only species we truly disturb is affluent white people who migrate to mountain towns every autumn. There really is no other species on the planet as sensitive...
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Ha! Folks tend to anthropomorphize a bit too much when trying to understand the situation. The quinoa/Cotopaxi complex is our name for them, or qC for short.
Spent some time at Christy Sports and Cripple Creek Backcountry today. Tried on several boots that did not fit. Came out of it with two ideas of boots that'd be decent starting points to pound into submission, at least, and gleaned a lot of info from the Cripple Creek guy in particular.
Boots that did not work out: that's a 27.5 K2 Mindbender 120 LV shell alone on my left foot, and a too-tall-in-midfoot weird construction 27.5 Dalbello Lupo on my right. Like Salomons as I tried both here and at Bentgate, volume's there but the proportions are wrong, too tall and not wide enough simultaneously.
1) The two boots that might work for my very wide feet, with the added stipulation that they have Gripwalk as opposed to full alpine soles so as to be compatible with my Looks (if BSL allows for it), are these two:
K2 Mindbender 120 MV
K2 FL3X Diverge LT
which is a Full Tilt Ascendant Approach with different colored plastics
MV in that name == medium volume, as opposed to the LV variant that's also made that's lower volume and 2 mm narrower, neither of which I desire at all. No one local carries the 120 MV flavor, just the 130 (which comes in LV only annoyingly) and LV version of the 120. I don't want the 100 MV that's available locally due to the flex.
Thus I ordered 26.5 and 27.5 examples of the 120 MV from Sports Basement out of California, as they seem to have an unlimited day return policy. I'll wear each around the house and if one of them is close enough to be workable will go in to Christy Sports, pay for a custom footbed, and for that cost they'll do all the shell and liner work necessary to make things work.
If neither size is even close then I'll go to evo in a month and see what they think, as they have that Diverge LT in stock. Some people online seem to love that Full Tilt design and others hate it, mainly due to the oddly low cuff design, it appears. At nominally 103 mm last it seems good on paper, at least. No sense ordering it from evo beforehand if I can get them to do the actual fit and guarantee their work.
2) Larry apparently sold Larry's Bootfitting to new owners a year or three back. That'd explain why I didn't see him last time I was at his eponymous shop. No reason to head up there any more now, I figure.
3) The Cripple Creek guy recommends the Shift binding for my proposed 75/25 (and that's probably very generous to the non-inbounds proportion) use given that I'm a DIN 9 kind of guy. His opinion is that one need not mess with removable toepieces a la the Duke PT for this non-DIN 16 cliff jumping use case, and that I'd like the Shift's elasticity much better than a Tecton setup.
4) He recommends airbags and uses one in all but long springtime tours where the danger is apparently warmth and what that does to the snow (didn't really understand this, but thus books and the course to take), and likes fan/supercapacitor based Alpride E2 systems in particular. He says it doesn't cause him to modify his risk taking behavior fwiw.
5) One of his co-workers at Cripple Creek got K2 Dispatch 110s this season and won't stop talking about them, in that they are exactly what he was looking for to cut through crust and variable snow.
6) All but one of his co-workers use Mammut Barryvox (non-S) transceivers. The one holdout has a non-Diract Ortovox but is planning on getting a Barryvox S at some point. That's a pretty strong endorsement if I've ever seen one.
Ok, I think that's about all. Cliffs Notes: tried to get AT boots. Failed again. But now maybe two options that are closer and may be workable.
Boots that did not work out: that's a 27.5 K2 Mindbender 120 LV shell alone on my left foot, and a too-tall-in-midfoot weird construction 27.5 Dalbello Lupo on my right. Like Salomons as I tried both here and at Bentgate, volume's there but the proportions are wrong, too tall and not wide enough simultaneously.
1) The two boots that might work for my very wide feet, with the added stipulation that they have Gripwalk as opposed to full alpine soles so as to be compatible with my Looks (if BSL allows for it), are these two:
K2 Mindbender 120 MV
K2 FL3X Diverge LT
which is a Full Tilt Ascendant Approach with different colored plastics
MV in that name == medium volume, as opposed to the LV variant that's also made that's lower volume and 2 mm narrower, neither of which I desire at all. No one local carries the 120 MV flavor, just the 130 (which comes in LV only annoyingly) and LV version of the 120. I don't want the 100 MV that's available locally due to the flex.
Thus I ordered 26.5 and 27.5 examples of the 120 MV from Sports Basement out of California, as they seem to have an unlimited day return policy. I'll wear each around the house and if one of them is close enough to be workable will go in to Christy Sports, pay for a custom footbed, and for that cost they'll do all the shell and liner work necessary to make things work.
If neither size is even close then I'll go to evo in a month and see what they think, as they have that Diverge LT in stock. Some people online seem to love that Full Tilt design and others hate it, mainly due to the oddly low cuff design, it appears. At nominally 103 mm last it seems good on paper, at least. No sense ordering it from evo beforehand if I can get them to do the actual fit and guarantee their work.
2) Larry apparently sold Larry's Bootfitting to new owners a year or three back. That'd explain why I didn't see him last time I was at his eponymous shop. No reason to head up there any more now, I figure.
3) The Cripple Creek guy recommends the Shift binding for my proposed 75/25 (and that's probably very generous to the non-inbounds proportion) use given that I'm a DIN 9 kind of guy. His opinion is that one need not mess with removable toepieces a la the Duke PT for this non-DIN 16 cliff jumping use case, and that I'd like the Shift's elasticity much better than a Tecton setup.
4) He recommends airbags and uses one in all but long springtime tours where the danger is apparently warmth and what that does to the snow (didn't really understand this, but thus books and the course to take), and likes fan/supercapacitor based Alpride E2 systems in particular. He says it doesn't cause him to modify his risk taking behavior fwiw.
5) One of his co-workers at Cripple Creek got K2 Dispatch 110s this season and won't stop talking about them, in that they are exactly what he was looking for to cut through crust and variable snow.
6) All but one of his co-workers use Mammut Barryvox (non-S) transceivers. The one holdout has a non-Diract Ortovox but is planning on getting a Barryvox S at some point. That's a pretty strong endorsement if I've ever seen one.
Ok, I think that's about all. Cliffs Notes: tried to get AT boots. Failed again. But now maybe two options that are closer and may be workable.
More on E2 airbags:
www.outdoorsportswire.com
Backcountry Access announces the Float E2 Avalanche Airbag
the new Float E2 avalanche airbag, the first in BCA’s airbag lineup that comes equipped with the Alpride E2 supercapacitor inflation system.
www.outdoorsportswire.com
Two things.
First, I’d suspect your estimation of inbounds to backcountry is generous, as you say. For reference, in a “good” year I’ll probably ski one day in the backcountry for every 2-3 days of inbounds, and that includes going on a couple of 3-day hut trips each year. That’s 75/25 on the low end and 65/35 on the high end. Now, if one were to count just “human powered” skiing such as skinning up the hill before it opens or going out of a gate, the ratio might be a touch higher. And I wouldn’t consider my ratio of touring days to be “high” at all compared to folks who actually tour. Maybe average for an average skier, at best. Not trying to knock you down here, just throwing out a reference to help you set a realistic expectation for yourself. It’s also why I keep recommending renting some gear or buying a cheap used setup to see if you like it.
Additional thought on this: you do ski at much more crowded ski areas than me. Perhaps that would drive you towards walking up the hill more often?
Second, I’ve never skied a Tecton but what your homeboy said about elasticity makes sense to me based on the design. If you read TGR or Newschoolers WRT Shift bindings then you’ll think that you’ll definitely die if you ski them. But plenty of people, myself included, have been skiing them literally for years with no issues.
To be clear: I don’t think my risk tolerance would change if I had an airbag either. What I’m trying to say is that my risk tolerance is low enough that I’m just not skiing in places or in conditions where the airbag would ever likely be needed or deployed. Give me 28° trees and I’ll happily make dad turns down that shit all day long. I know, I know, why not be extra safe? I don’t have a great answer for this, TBH. Weight, cost, who knows.
Fuck it. Go for the 120s!
Kidding. Kinda. What are your skis now? The 99? Then yeah why not, maybe that 110 will even be fun inbounds on a deep day.
@Full Trucker current daily drivers are K2 Mindbender 108 Ti. So 110 (albeit with a different shape for sure) is sooo close
here’s the sale. Flat skis. Near 1:1 euro to dollar
here’s the sale. Flat skis. Near 1:1 euro to dollar
Maybe you need a pow ski? 
Also I can’t believe I’ve forgotten about this place until now. If you’re really backcountry curious, check out Bluebird Backcountry. It’s not a place for people like Woo, or maybe even me, but it’s a great spot to dip your toes in the waters of backcountry skiing. I have been and the terrain and snow conditions are definitely backcountry style. They’ve got avy education clinics, backcountry try travel and techniques clinics, or you can just go tromp around and see what you think. It’s a pretty unique spot, and has its place IMO. They also have all the demo gear you might want, pretty solid stuff if I’m not mistaken.
Also I can’t believe I’ve forgotten about this place until now. If you’re really backcountry curious, check out Bluebird Backcountry. It’s not a place for people like Woo, or maybe even me, but it’s a great spot to dip your toes in the waters of backcountry skiing. I have been and the terrain and snow conditions are definitely backcountry style. They’ve got avy education clinics, backcountry try travel and techniques clinics, or you can just go tromp around and see what you think. It’s a pretty unique spot, and has its place IMO. They also have all the demo gear you might want, pretty solid stuff if I’m not mistaken.
this guy is on the board of the one organization that has gotten more public land closed to snowmobiles (and bikes) than any other I've ever dealt with. I've had to 'work' with them for forest service projects and they are some of the most smug, intolerant arrogant pricks on the planet. We formed our own nonprofit and had to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight the shit they get in place.Maybe you need a pow ski?
Also I can’t believe I’ve forgotten about this place until now. If you’re really backcountry curious, check out Bluebird Backcountry. It’s not a place for people like Woo, or maybe even me, but it’s a great spot to dip your toes in the waters of backcountry skiing. I have been and the terrain and snow conditions are definitely backcountry style. They’ve got avy education clinics, backcountry try travel and techniques clinics, or you can just go tromp around and see what you think. It’s a pretty unique spot, and has its place IMO. They also have all the demo gear you might want, pretty solid stuff if I’m not mistaken.
When I gripe about patagonia, this is why. This is who they fund.
Literal children of privilege who use every public land closure as a belt notch to brag about their 'conservation credentials' among other brats.
So generally speaking fuck bluebird. I hope they fail. It's just another 'investment' to these twats.
Board of Directors - Winter Wildlands Alliance
Our Board is composed of key figures in the conservation and human-powered recreation communities serving as a volunteer advisor, drawing on deep experience to help set organizational policy and guiding WWA in the fulfillment of our mission and vision.
winterwildlands.org
just buy my promodel
it sucks on hardpack so it will force to you go hike
www.freeride.com
edit: jesus, remember when you buy authentic artisan skis for $380?
it sucks on hardpack so it will force to you go hike
Praxis WooTest review
The Wootest was conceived last year in a very special way via internet forum chatter. Essentially Praxis was approached with an idea, heavily supported by backcountry skiers, who wanted a ski that stayed light for man-powered ascents yet slayed powder on the way down. It was decided that our pop...
www.freeride.com
edit: jesus, remember when you buy authentic artisan skis for $380?
That’s what I’m using to try to rationalize this: with Shifts and 120ish stiffness AT boots they would be a frontside powder setup… that could be used to go up now and then. Once.Maybe you need a pow ski?
Not sure if they come in luminous yellow:
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