[BurlyShirley]

no i pay into it for everyone else to use it........has anyone explored tougher immigration laws to help lessen the tax dollars being spent on every service offered by the US government? i mean welfare, healthcare, education and all the other services that are supported by our tax dollars but being flooded by illegal immigrants that dont pay taxes?

If you're below the poverty line, you shouldnt be paying taxes. I know they take it out your check each week, but do you not get back a decent refund each year? Is that refund not about equal to what's taken from your checks, minus social security? If not, you're either making a mistake or mistaking the poverty line. Individuals making less than 25K or so pay very little or nothing. And with Bush's tax credits your refunds should be + $300.
I know this because Jen was in that boat last year and profited whereas I got screwed.

 

[Toshi]

no i pay into it for everyone else to use it........has anyone explored tougher immigration laws to help lessen the tax dollars being spent on every service offered by the US government? i mean welfare, healthcare, education and all the other services that are supported by our tax dollars but being flooded by illegal immigrants that dont pay taxes?

one could (and should, i believe) argue that making immigration easier will bring many, many more dollars of revenue into the system. if the immigrants are already drawing public money through ER visits and public schooling, why shouldn't they contribute tax revenue as citizens do?

i am sure that such an approach would be far cheaper than the impossible task of stopping people from immigrating illegally -- if they're motivated enough to risk death in crossing the border increasing that risk of death incrementally won't make them stop, think twice, and stay home.

 

[BurlyShirley]

one could (and should, i believe) argue that making immigration easier will bring many, many more dollars of revenue into the system. if the immigrants are already drawing public money through ER visits and public schooling, why shouldn't they contribute tax revenue as citizens do?

i am sure that such an approach would be far cheaper than the impossible task of stopping people from immigrating illegally -- if they're motivated enough to risk death in crossing the border increasing that risk of death incrementally won't make them stop, think twice, and stay home.

I dont know. Ive never seen all these numbers quantified (like that's even possible) but taking into consideration illegal immigrant crime, legions of govt. workers to manage the legalization process of immigrants, their healthcare costs becuase they cant afford it, etc, etc, ...sometimes I wonder if a big brick fence and some guns wouldnt actually be more financially sound.

 

[Silver]

How hard is it to make a system where you have to call in and verify that a SS# is valid if you're employing someone?

You call in with the applicants number, and if he's got a legit SS #, the system spits back a confirmation code, and you're good to go. If not, you can't hire him, and if you do and get caught, you go to jail...

The credit card companies could figure out how to do this in a week...

 

[BurlyShirley]

How hard is it to make a system where you have to call in and verify that a SS# is valid if you're employing someone?

You call in with the applicants number, and if he's got a legit SS #, the system spits back a confirmation code, and you're good to go. If not, you can't hire him, and if you do and get caught, you go to jail...

The credit card companies could figure out how to do this in a week...

Cant be that hard. I have to do the same with my VA file number in order to keep getting school paid for. Just call and verify and they cut teh check

 

[LordOpie]

no i pay into it for everyone else to use it........has anyone explored tougher immigration laws to help lessen the tax dollars being spent on every service offered by the US government? i mean welfare, healthcare, education and all the other services that are supported by our tax dollars but being flooded by illegal immigrants that dont pay taxes?

well, that's a seperate topic altogether, but consider that most illegals have fake social security numbers... they pay plenty of taxes into the system while never taking a rebate come April 15th.

Illegals pay plenty.

 

[LordOpie]

How hard is it to make a system where you have to call in and verify that a SS# is valid if you're employing someone?

Thing is, illegals use REAL ss#s. My woman used to work in the restuarant industry, where it's prevalent to hire illegals, illegals who have "real" paperwork, so it's much harder than you can imagine.

 

[Silver]

Thing is, illegals use REAL ss#s. My woman used to work in the restuarant industry, where it's prevalent to hire illegals, illegals who have "real" paperwork, so it's much harder than you can imagine.

Then the system cross checks, and if it shows that Ann Sixpack used the same number 5 years ago, it gets flagged. No employment until you sort it out...

This assumes that it's tricky to get a real live SS #...is it? Mine was a bit of a pain in the ass.

 

[LordOpie]

I don't have all the answers... all I believe is that illegal immigration is no where near the problem as people make it out to be.

And if people were really concerned about the financial cost of illegals, then they'd be for eliminating the fight against... which is absurdly expensive on it's on.

 

[Toshi]

for an argument against the effectiveness of employer penalties (which have been present and ineffective for many years) see:

chau nh. strategic amnesty and credible immigration reform. journal of labor economics 19:3;604.

a reference that supports the economics of selective legalization of immigrants (a subset of what i suggest) is:

Storesletten K. Sustaining Fiscal Policy through Immigration. [Journal of Political Economy , 2000, vol. 108, no. 2.

the papers are out there...

 

[Silver]

for an argument against the effectiveness of employer penalties (which have been present and ineffective for many years) see:

Present, but unenforced. There aren't any Swift execs in jail right now, are there? I don't mean to paint myself as an anti-immigration zealot either. On a micro level, I rather like the (probably half) illegal family that lives next door to me, and much prefer them to the tweakers down the street, who are most certainly legal US citizens.

I'm with Opie on this one. Illegal immigration (in my opinion) is simply a consequence of having free capital movement. It's crazy to think that labor isn't going to attempt to move around as well. The country that gets the short end of the deal isn't the US, it's Mexico. We end up with a bunch of people who are so willing and eager to work, that they are willing to risk their lives to come here and be exploited so that their grandchildren can live the American dream. We're hardly getting the lazy and shiftless...