[lovebunny]

the article is a little sensationalist but this pilot really pulled off an amazing landing.
Plane passenger: 'We owe everything to the pilot' - World news - Europe - msnbc.com

The pilots discovered there was a problem before touching ground. They circled the 767 above the airport for about one hour before descending without lowering the wheels, said Przemyslaw Przybylski, a spokesman for the Warsaw airport.

The plane, escorted by two F-16 fighter jets, landed with nearly empty fuel tanks after dumping fuel in preparation for the emergency landing, LOT spokesman Leszek Chorzewski said.


A fire brigade laid out special flame retardant foam for the plane to land on. On landing, sparks flew from the engine and small fires erupted under the plane but were immediately put out by firefighters. The passengers evacuated the plane using an emergency slide.

The pilot told passengers four hours into the flight that the plane faced technical problems, said a passenger who would only give her first name, Malgorzata.

"The pilot addressed us a number of times and said we should follow instructions. Later, a flight attendant said there might be a fire, and at that point people began to get nervous and uncertain," she said

heres a pic of the damage.

and a video. again mad props to the pilot for keeping the plane under control and bringing it in with minimal damage and no injuries. guy deserves a raise.

 

[IH8Rice]

a few more angles

 

[rockofullr]

So smooth! Dude had skills.

 

[skyst3alth]

One of the smoothest landings i've seen, so awesome.

 

[DirtMcGirk]

Did you hear about the new Polish airplane?








In the great tradition of the two story outhouse, the submarine with a screen door, and the helicopter ejector seat, Poland gives you the airplane with no landing gear....

 

[Quo Fan]

I wouldn't want to be the last guy that worked on the hydraulics.

 

[Pesqueeb]

I wouldn't want to be the last guy that worked on the hydraulics.

Though probably not hydraulics, no fluid/no flight controls; I.E. Sioux City. No emergency release on the gear? Sounds more like mechanical jam/failure of some sorts. Though I can't say why if that were the case at least not one of the gear would have come down.

 

[jimmydean]

Show off. Is that considered a "no lander"?

 

[Silver]

I'd hate to see the condition of the rental cars the pilot turns in...

 

[insanitylevel9]

dam that guy knows how to fly a plane.

 

[bean]

Ask The Pilot has written a couple pretty good articles about it. I prefer his less sensationalized read on it.

This is Warsaw, not Hollywood - Ask the Pilot - Salon.com
Safe outcome in Warsaw belly landing - Salon.com

 

[lovebunny]

Though probably not hydraulics, no fluid/no flight controls; I.E. Sioux City. No emergency release on the gear? Sounds more like mechanical jam/failure of some sorts. Though I can't say why if that were the case at least not one of the gear would have come down.

i would think if one of the mains wont come down it would be safer to do a gear up. i would not want to try and land with only one main.

 

[JetTeach]

Though probably not hydraulics, no fluid/no flight controls; I.E. Sioux City. No emergency release on the gear? Sounds more like mechanical jam/failure of some sorts. Though I can't say why if that were the case at least not one of the gear would have come down.

EXACTLY what I was thinking....not familiar enough with the type but Boeing pretty much uses a fail-safe mechanical release across the fleet.

 

[Pesqueeb]

dam that guy knows how to fly a plane.

Almost like he's a professional pilot!

 

[JetTeach]

Almost like he's a professional pilot!

One would almost think they practice this sort of thing as a standard emergency procedure in the sim.....

 

[lovebunny]

One would almost think they practice this sort of thing as a standard emergency procedure in the sim.....

pshaw! its not like you guys know anything about the subject....

 

[JetTeach]

i would think if one of the mains wont come down it would be safer to do a gear up. i would not want to try and land with only one main.

You are exactly right.

 

[JetTeach]

Interesting info I found in the 767 -1 and GV:

On a 767, complete electrical failure will result in the inability to extend the gear and flaps because the ADP
requires DC power to operate and when the battery is depleted, the ADP air supply valve will close and the center hydraulic system will depressurize. Gear and flaps will not extend by either the normal or alternate method if this happens. (Center system hydraulics will not be available for normal gear and flap extension and electric power will not be available for alternate gear extension.)

767 Alternate Extension – “Electro-mechanical.” Alternate extension uses an electric motor to trip the door uplocks for each gear. (There are no gear uplocks.) The gear then free-fall to the down and locked position and all hydraulically powered gear doors remain open.
According to a ground school instructor, every time alternate extension has been used on a 767, the nose gear has not locked down and collapsed on landing, usually at low speed and with minor damage.

I have also heard this about alternate extend of the nose gear on the 767. Most notably, do a search on the Gimli Glider.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Complete electrical failure? No RAT/ADG on a 767? While I buy the explanation it seems improbable. Thought I read about crew noticing an issue 4 hours into the flight. Seems a stretch to think they flew over half the Atlantic then half of Europe with no electrical power. IMHO the only way that makes sense is if they lost power 10 miles out, not 4 hours into a 12+ hour flight.

*Edit:

About 30 minutes after departure from Newark the crew reported the failure of the center hydraulic system. It is unclear why the gear could not be lowered, this is being investigated

http://avherald.com/h?article=4456bd6b&opt=0

 

[IH8Rice]

why dont they have a hand crank??

 

[OGRipper]

I found a picture from inside the cockpit just before that landing:

 

[JetTeach]

Complete electrical failure? No RAT/ADG on a 767? While I buy the explanation it seems improbable. Thought I read about crew noticing an issue 4 hours into the flight. Seems a stretch to think they flew over half the Atlantic then half of Europe with no electrical power. IMHO the only way that makes sense is if they lost power 10 miles out, not 4 hours into a 12+ hour flight.

*Edit:

And this is why I am inclined to believe that there were some issue other than a simple hydraulic system failure. I did find alot of anecdotal evidence that says the ADG ain't worth a crap at low airspeeds. It could also be like mentioned above that one of the mains wouldn't extend and therefore the decision was made to belly in. Unfortunately I am skeptical as to whether an ICAO investigation would be as thorough as an NTSB investigation. We may never know...

 

[norbar]

He is a hero but he mentioned here the same issue the US river landing pilot mentioned - pilots get threated like **** and get paid close to nothing. Which is kinda funny because I doubt the crew pay is a large part of costs of flight (the argument for low cost flights by airlines).

 

[bean]

He is a hero...

How so?

 

[jdcamb]

And this is why I am inclined to believe that there were some issue other than a simple hydraulic system failure. I did find alot of anecdotal evidence that says the ADG ain't worth a crap at low airspeeds. It could also be like mentioned above that one of the mains wouldn't extend and therefore the decision was made to belly in. Unfortunately I am skeptical as to whether an ICAO investigation would be as thorough as an NTSB investigation. We may never know...

Hopefully Syadasti will be along and let us know what happened. Probably a glitch happened when someone was using and Iphone in flight. Since Jobs is dead, can we blame Wozniak? Hey I just noticed his name sounds Polish. I'm gonna pin blame squarely on Steve Wozniak....

 

[Pesqueeb]

He is a hero but he mentioned here the same issue the US river landing pilot mentioned - pilots get threated like **** and get paid close to nothing. Which is kinda funny because I doubt the crew pay is a large part of costs of flight (the argument for low cost flights by airlines).

Thats certianly not true for major carriers based in the states. Don't know how it works in Poland but a US based captain and FO with the kind of hours the LOT guys had in this case are living very comfortably.

 

[IH8Rice]

I found a picture from inside the cockpit just before that landing:

surely you cant be serious

 

[lovebunny]

He is a hero but he mentioned here the same issue the US river landing pilot mentioned - pilots get threated like **** and get paid close to nothing. Which is kinda funny because I doubt the crew pay is a large part of costs of flight (the argument for low cost flights by airlines).

Yes its true that starting out you get paid pennies. But once you have the hours and experience to make captain you are making some pretty decent money. Also I wouldn't call him a hero so much as a good pilot. They caught the error early on and took every measure they could to land the plane with minimal damage to the plane or pax.

 

[dante]

Polish aircraft lands wheels up

Meanwhile, in Poland....

 

[lovebunny]

Meanwhile, in Poland....

now that pilot wasnt nearly as talented, haha

 

[norbar]

Thats certianly not true for major carriers based in the states. Don't know how it works in Poland but a US based captain and FO with the kind of hours the LOT guys had in this case are living very comfortably.

Wasn't that US pilot that landed on Hudson complaining they were overworked/underpaid? I remember him saying so.

 

[RUFUS]

Thats certianly not true for major carriers based in the states. Don't know how it works in Poland but a US based captain and FO with the kind of hours the LOT guys had in this case are living very comfortably.

I'm not sure what captains you are talking to, but every single one that I know from good friends to our F16 pilots with more hours than you can imagine, are getting **** pay for their skill set and hours in the air.

There are a few exceptions though.

 

[MMike]

Though probably not hydraulics, no fluid/no flight controls; I.E. Sioux City. No emergency release on the gear? Sounds more like mechanical jam/failure of some sorts. Though I can't say why if that were the case at least not one of the gear would have come down.

Controls on the '67 are cable rigged. But as you say, something may have jammed. I didn't see the RAT deployed in the video (which is usually enough to at least get the gear down in a hyd failure.

 

[MMike]

And this is why I am inclined to believe that there were some issue other than a simple hydraulic system failure. I did find alot of anecdotal evidence that says the ADG ain't worth a crap at low airspeeds. It could also be like mentioned above that one of the mains wouldn't extend and therefore the decision was made to belly in. Unfortunately I am skeptical as to whether an ICAO investigation would be as thorough as an NTSB investigation. We may never know...

Complete electrical failure? No RAT/ADG on a 767? While I buy the explanation it seems improbable. Thought I read about crew noticing an issue 4 hours into the flight. Seems a stretch to think they flew over half the Atlantic then half of Europe with no electrical power. IMHO the only way that makes sense is if they lost power 10 miles out, not 4 hours into a 12+ hour flight.

*Edit:

Ah. I just saw these. 767 most definitely has a RAT.

I have nothing further to add. Looking forward to the Mayday episode.

 

[IH8Rice]

a passenger's pov

 

[JetTeach]

Controls on the '67 are cable rigged. But as you say, something may have jammed. I didn't see the RAT deployed in the video (which is usually enough to at least get the gear down in a hyd failure.

Alternate extension on the 767 is via an electric motor driven uplock release for the gear and doors on the mains and the gear only on the nose. Typical of Boeing the nose doors move mechanically with the gear unlike the mains.

 

[MMike]

Alternate extension on the 767 is via an electric motor driven uplock release for the gear and doors on the mains and the gear only on the nose. Typical of Boeing the nose doors move mechanically with the gear unlike the mains.

Indeed....I was engineering support on the 767 line back in 1999 for a spell. But I was electrical installation. I won't pretend to know anything about the mechanical systems. I just recall watching them cycle the gear up and down (with the a/p on jackstands). Makes a hell of a racket! But they would sometimes do the the main gear without the doors closing.

photo I took in a previous life...with a camera that required 3-1/2" floppy discs:

 

[JetTeach]

Indeed....I was engineering support on the 767 line back in 1999 for a spell. But I was electrical installation. I won't pretend to know anything about the mechanical systems. I just recall watching them cycle the gear up and down (with the a/p on jackstands). Makes a hell of a racket! But they would sometimes do the the main gear without the doors closing.

photo I took in a previous life...with a camera that required 3-1/2" floppy discs:

Very cool! What you witnessed with the doors staying open was the alternate extension. The electric motor releases the uplocks and the gear falls by gravity. There is no input to put the doors back up on alternate extension (assumption is hyd failure so there would be no way to drive the doors). And yeah, it makes a helluva racket!!

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

Meanwhile, in Poland....

Cool story......

I was on a LOT flight from Munich to Wroclow, Poland.....my Swedish co-worker was complaining about the room she had, how uncomfortable the seat was, etc.....so I said "Oh, you've never been on a Polish airline? Wait until they turn the plane upside down to save fuel"......every Polish person within earshot of us was staring at me......(sorry Norbar)

 

[kickstand]

surely you cant be serious

My name is not surely.