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America as two countries… literally?

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
55,919
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media blackout
I was just commenting on how I remember 20-30 years ago you'd see a savings rate of a few percent for a bank account
nowadays interest on a "savings" account is rarely more than half a percent. i remember my first savings account as a kid was something like 4 or 5%.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
4,179
1,785
Crawlorado
High five!

Was actually the thing I took from that article first. I'm doing as well as the average 55-61 year old at age 39, at least when it comes to retirement saving. I don't know what that means for sure. :twitch:
Eek! I'm like an average 50-55 year old. I'm 31. Some people are in for a bad time.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,480
3,236
Sleazattle
I am currently on track to get 115% of my current income at 67, and that scares the shit out of me as not enough because of medical expenses.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,480
3,236
Sleazattle
Assuming the US and Canada dissolved and there was motivation and impetus to create separate new nations the map proposed makes no sense. The Coastal regions of CA, OR and WA are vastly different from the inland areas, socially, politically and economically. Let's face it. The divide in this country is not between states or regions but urban and not urban.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
27,531
3,801
Riding the baggage carousel.
Assuming the US and Canada dissolved and there was motivation and impetus to create separate new nations the map proposed makes no sense. The Coastal regions of CA, OR and WA are vastly different from the inland areas, socially, politically and economically. Let's face it. The divide in this country is not between states or regions but urban and not urban.
This is no harebrained Calexit or Califexit. Proposals for the so-called Republic of Cascadia don’t call for a new country, but rather a semi-autonomous region inside North America, much like Spain’s Catalonia or Britain’s Scotland.
:rofl:

1: Yes it is
2: Hows that working out for them? Things keep going south in Catalonia and Spain is liable to be fighting another Civil War. The Scottish independence vote was only a couple years ago and it was barley defeated.

The "small government" mouth breathers in Nor-cal have been pushing for their own exit for decades. I can remember being a little kid and my dad making fun of "California loonies" pushing this issue when we were up that way for a visit. This was the mid 80's. And Westy is right. Except for the Metro areas, those states are actually really conservative. Multnomah and Lane Counties determine the way Oregon votes. I grew up in what is now Devin Nunes district in the agricultural heart of California's central valley, those people are not hippies. Get over the cascades and Washington is just as conservative. IMO it's incredibly dangerous to even engage these ideas.
 
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jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
55,919
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media blackout
:rofl:

1: Yes it is
2: Hows that working out for them? Things keep going south in Catalonia and Spain is liable to be fighting another Civil War. The Scottish independence vote was only a couple years ago and it was barley defeated.

The "small government" mouth breathers in Nor-cal have been pushing for their own exit for decades. I can remember being a little kid and my dad making fun of "California loonies" pushing this issue when we were up that way for a visit. This was the mid 80's. And Westy is right. Except for the Metro areas, those states are actually really conservative. Multnomah and Lane Counties determine the way Oregon votes. I grew up in what is now Devin Nunes district in the agricultural heart of California's central valley, those people are not hippies. Get over the cascades and Washington is just as conservative. IMO it's incredibly dangerous to even engage these ideas.
it'll be a moot point when it falls into the ocean. thanks subduction plates!
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,480
3,236
Sleazattle
:rofl:

1: Yes it is
2: Hows that working out for them? Things keep going south in Catalonia and Spain is liable to be fighting another Civil War. The Scottish independence vote was only a couple years ago and it was barley defeated.

The "small government" mouth breathers in Nor-cal have been pushing for their own exit for decades. I can remember being a little kid and my dad making fun of "California loonies" pushing this issue when we were up that way for a visit. This was the mid 80's. And Westy is right. Except for the Metro areas, those states are actually really conservative. Multnomah and Lane Counties determine the way Oregon votes. I grew up in what is now Devin Nunes district in the agricultural heart of California's central valley, those people are not hippies. Get over the cascades and Washington is just as conservative. IMO it's incredibly dangerous to even engage these ideas.

I don't know. I think all the Seattle communists and east side Mormons, Nazis and militant groups would get along really well.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,359
907
East Bay, Cali
The "small government" mouth breathers in Nor-cal have been pushing for their own exit for decades. I can remember being a little kid and my dad making fun of "California loonies" pushing this issue when we were up that way for a visit. This was the mid 80's.
They call it the "State of Jefferson" and you'll see signs for it any time you head out to the hills in Cali. I find it hilarious that they don't realize where all the money comes from. Sure go ahead and leave. See who pays for it next fire season when you need thousands of fire fighters to throw water on your dumb asses.

http://www.keepitcalifornia.org/fact-sheet.html
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,480
3,236
Sleazattle
They call it the "State of Jefferson" and you'll see signs for it any time you head out to the hills in Cali. I find it hilarious that they don't realize where all the money comes from. Sure go ahead and leave. See who pays for it next fire season when you need thousands of fire fighters to throw water on your dumb asses.

http://www.keepitcalifornia.org/fact-sheet.html

I believe the city of LA actually owns a fair amount of the land and water infrastructure that maintains most of the state.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,266
1,694
AK
I believe the city of LA actually owns a fair amount of the land and water infrastructure that maintains most of the state.
Is that before or after they take it from the San Joquine and Sacramento River deltas?
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
13,781
1,266
Transylvania 90210
Imagining what West US vs. East US would be like. The complexity of the economics of establishing trade with two different countries. Southern border regulation. Currency valuation. Change in flow of income tax revenue, and federal subsidies. Military responsibilities.

It’s nice to think of being “rid of them” but it’d really be more of “I’m stuck with shitty neighbors” since “them” doesn’t really go away.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,480
3,236
Sleazattle
Is that before or after they take it from the San Joquine and Sacramento River deltas?
Don't know. I just know the city secretly bought all the land needed via proxy so they could get it cheaper, this included the water sources for much of the state.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,359
907
East Bay, Cali
Don't know. I just know the city secretly bought all the land needed via proxy so they could get it cheaper, this included the water sources for much of the state.
It's incredibly complicated. But yeah LA does get a lot of water from other parts of the state, mostly the Owens River Valley and Colorado River as I understand it.

http://aic.ucdavis.edu/events/outlook05/Sawyer_primer.pdf
http://www.watereducation.org/sites/main/files/file-attachments/outline_of_california_water_rights.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California

 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,644
661
Front Range, dude...
Imagining what West US vs. East US would be like. The complexity of the economics of establishing trade with two different countries. Southern border regulation. Currency valuation. Change in flow of income tax revenue, and federal subsidies. Military responsibilities.

It’s nice to think of being “rid of them” but it’d really be more of “I’m stuck with shitty neighbors” since “them” doesn’t really go away.
And this applies fully to all the southern states that talk shit about seceding...I am talking to you, Texass...
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,480
3,236
Sleazattle
:rofl:

1: Yes it is
2: Hows that working out for them? Things keep going south in Catalonia and Spain is liable to be fighting another Civil War. The Scottish independence vote was only a couple years ago and it was barley defeated.

The "small government" mouth breathers in Nor-cal have been pushing for their own exit for decades. I can remember being a little kid and my dad making fun of "California loonies" pushing this issue when we were up that way for a visit. This was the mid 80's. And Westy is right. Except for the Metro areas, those states are actually really conservative. Multnomah and Lane Counties determine the way Oregon votes. I grew up in what is now Devin Nunes district in the agricultural heart of California's central valley, those people are not hippies. Get over the cascades and Washington is just as conservative. IMO it's incredibly dangerous to even engage these ideas.

Comments as usual boggle my mind. As much as I disagree with the article over the possible success of cessation, it would seem a whole lot of people seem to think it would fail due to a weak military. They seem to believe that the only thing keeping North America from complete ISIS/North Korea/Iranian invasion is the global power of the US military and fail to see that ISIS et al is a reaction to US global ball squeezing.
 

mykel

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2013
1,967
608
sw ontario canada
For most the idea of pulling the plug goes away when they get to a point in power and see the books and realize how much they are bankrolled by the dirty libtards dressed in Blue. :o :twitch: Then it is spin time, cause nobody would ever dare be saying, sorry guys we can't do without the cash the libs in the blue states give us. :panic::shakefist::mad:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
27,531
3,801
Riding the baggage carousel.
Is that before or after they take it from the San Joquine and Sacramento River deltas?
And the Kings, the Kern, the Kaweah, the American.........
Don't know. I just know the city secretly bought all the land needed via proxy so they could get it cheaper, this included the water sources for much of the state.
It's incredibly complicated. But yeah LA does get a lot of water from other parts of the state, mostly the Owens River Valley and Colorado River as I understand it.

http://aic.ucdavis.edu/events/outlook05/Sawyer_primer.pdf
http://www.watereducation.org/sites/main/files/file-attachments/outline_of_california_water_rights.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California

I think I've recommended it before, but there is a fantastic book about exactly this issue called Cadillac Desert that delves quite deeply into the history and complexity of water in the american west. The whole back half of the book is basically about LA stealing water from everyone, the Owens Valley Water war and William Mulholland, who it turns out, was kind of a dick, and not just because his dam failed.
 
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JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,644
661
Front Range, dude...
LA is so overrated and has such an unearned sense of entitlement...

I used to drive through San Francisquito Canyon all the time. Beautiful area...great road, lots of fun to drive. The area of the dam break is way different than the rest of the canyon, the damage is/was still apparent from the break.
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,644
661
Front Range, dude...
And the Kings, the Kern, the Kaweah, the American.........



I think I've recommended it before, but there is a fantastic book about exactly this issue called Cadillac Desert that delves quite deeply into the history and complexity of water in the american west. The whole back half of the book is basically about LA stealing water from everyone, the Owens Valley Water war and William Mulholland, who it turns out, was kind of a dick, and not just because his dam failed.
A somewhat slanted view of the disaster. More better if you ask me...

https://www.kcet.org/history-society/the-flood-st-francis-dam-disaster-william-mulholland-and-the-casualties-of-la
 

mykel

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2013
1,967
608
sw ontario canada
Timely from the UN...

"American Dream is rapidly becoming American Illusion," warns UN rights expert on poverty

WASHINGTON, D.C. / GENEVA (15 December 2017) – The United States, one of the world’s richest nations and the “land of opportunity”, is fast becoming a champion of inequality, according to the United Nations Special Rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, Philip Alston.

Entrenched poverty will be made far worse by policies being proposed by the Trump Administration, warned Philip Alston in a statement after a two-week fact-finding mission to California, Alabama, Georgia, West Virginia and Washington, D.C., as well as Puerto Rico.

The American Dream is rapidly becoming the American Illusion, as the United States now has the lowest rate of social mobility of any of the rich countries,” said the independent human rights expert appointed by the UN Human Rights Council to look at poverty and human rights in countries around the world.

“American exceptionalism was a constant theme in my conversations. But instead of realizing its founders’ admirable commitments, today’s United States has proved itself to be exceptional in far more problematic ways that are shockingly at odds with its immense wealth and its founding commitment to human rights.

“There is no other developed country where so many voters are disenfranchised and where so few poor voters even care to go to the polls, and where ordinary voters ultimately have so little impact on political outcomes. There are no other developed countries in which so many citizens are behind bars.”

The Special Rapporteur continued: “I have been struck by the extent to which caricatured narratives about the purported innate differences between rich and poor have been sold to the electorate by some politicians and media, and have been allowed to define the debate. The rich are industrious, entrepreneurial, patriotic and the drivers of economic success. The poor are wasters, losers and scammers.

“Despite the fact that this is contradicted by the facts, some of the politicians and political appointees with whom I spoke were completely sold on the narrative of such scammers sitting on comfortable sofas, watching colour TVs, while surfing on their smartphones, all paid for by welfare.

“I wonder how many of these politicians have ever visited poor areas, let alone spoken to those who dwell there.”

The most recent official statistics from the US Census Bureau in September 2017 indicated that more than 40 million people - more than one in eight Americans - were living in poverty. Almost half of those, 18.5 million, were living in deep poverty, with reported family income below half of the poverty threshold.

Mr. Alston said the poor were assumed to come from ethnic minority groups, but noted that in reality there were eight million more white people than African-Americans living in poverty. “The face of poverty in America is not only black or Hispanic, but also white, Asian and many other colours,” he said.

The Special Rapporteur expressed the fear that proposed changes in the direction of US tax and welfare policies could have devastating consequences for the poorest 20 percent of Americans.

“The proposed tax reform package stakes out America’s bid to become the most unequal society in the world,” Mr. Alston said. “It will greatly increase the already high levels of wealth and income inequality between the richest one percent and the poorest 50 percent of Americans.

“The dramatic cuts in welfare, foreshadowed by President Trump and Speaker Ryan, and already beginning to be implemented by the administration, will essentially shred crucial dimensions of a safety net that is already full of holes.”

“Several administration officials told me that as far as welfare reform is concerned, states are, in Justice Louis D. Brandeis’ famous phrase, ‘laboratories of innovation’. Recent proposals to drug-test welfare recipients in Wisconsin and West Virginia, along with Mississippi’s recent purge of its welfare rolls, raise concerns that the administration would happily look the other way while states conducted what were in essence unethical experiments on the poor.”

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22546&LangID=E