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An End to State Sanctioned Murder?

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Interested to see this. My guess is that it's a momentary correction and business will proceed as usual in 2008/after the judgement. Be nice if it was the beginning of the end though nasty bastards mentioned in the article notwithstanding.

FOR the first time in three years, more than a month has passed in the United States without an execution.

A de facto moratorium on executions exists following a decision by the US Supreme Court in September to review the sentences of two inmates on death row in Kentucky. Ralph Baze and Thomas Bowling have challenged the legality of the way they are to die — by lethal injection.

Baze was convicted in 1992 of shooting a sheriff and a deputy sheriff in Powell County, Kentucky. Bowling was convicted of murdering a couple and shooting their two-year-old, after their cars collided in 1990. Neither has an execution date yet.

Both men question whether the combination of drugs used to kill convicts amounts to cruel and unusual punishment, in violation of the Eighth Amendment. The court is expected to hear arguments in January.

This week the Supreme Court blocked the execution of a child killer and rapist in Florida — four hours before he was due to die — saying it should not proceed until the court considers the Baze/Bowling challenge.

Mark Dean Schwab, 38, convicted in 1992 of the rape and murder of an 11-year-old boy, was scheduled to die at 6pm on Thursday. The Supreme Court's stay of execution overturned a US appeals court ruling that the execution proceed regardless of the challenge.

The US is the only Western democracy to carry the death penalty.

While the Kentucky case is causing more soul-searching among civil libertarians, the legal fraternity and politicians about the morality of the death penalty, most legal experts believe the challenge is unlikely to lead to its abolition in the US.

"But it will certainly change the way the death penalty is administered by setting standards for states that use lethal injection," said Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Centre, a non-profit organisation that collects information but does not advocate on the issue.

Polls show that 65 per cent of Americans support the death penalty, which is administered by lethal injection in 37 of the 38 death-penalty states. Nebraska still electrocutes convicts.

In practice, prosecutors seem increasingly reluctant to seek death sentences, much less see them carried out. Last year 53 prisoners were executed, down from 98 in 1999.

New Jersey is soon to vote on ending the death penalty, and even in "hang 'em high" Texas there seems to be a move towards life-long incarceration rather than execution.

The American Bar Association recently described the legal process leading to executions as "deeply flawed". It cited the disproportionate number of African-Americans who are executed (34 per cent of all executions since 1976) and the disturbing number of times that DNA evidence has led to convictions being overturned. There is also growing evidence that injections can cause excruciating pain. The present formula of drugs used was developed in Oklahoma in 1977 by Dr Jay Chapman. Veterinarians have stopped using it because it causes animals too much pain.

Most lethal injections involve three drugs: an anaesthetic, usually sodium pentathol, to render the victim unconscious; a paralytic agent that freezes the person's muscles, which Mr Dieter says is basically included for "cosmetic reasons" so the victim cannot flinch or cry out; and a drug that stops the person's heart, usually potassium chloride. This is fast acting if properly administered, but extremely painful without anaesthetic.

Last year in Florida, convicted murderer Angel Diaz grimaced for 30 minutes after the prison guard botched the injection by inserting the needle right through Diaz' vein rather than into it.

The medical examiner said Diaz had chemical burns on both arms.

Mr Dieter believes that the challenge will most likely result in some sort of protocol for lethal injections, such as requiring mandatory levels of training and acceptable levels of pain. He does not envisage the court specifying an improved drug formula.

There are alternative drugs available, including improved anaesthetics, and massive doses of barbiturates (sedative drugs) could instead be used.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Just an addendum;
A UN General Assembly panel has passed a resolution calling for a moratorium on executions, with the ultimate goal of abolishing the practice despite fierce opposition from several members.

The vote was 99 in favour, 52 against and 33 abstentions. The US and China joined many developing countries, notably from the Islamic world, in voting no after an acrimonious debate.
Keeping some good company there guys.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
What happened to the time honored tradition of just taking the offending part of the body...Steal = -hand, Rape = -Capt. Winky

I mean really...let's just get back to basics.
Agreed! Especially for the rape one.


I just do not understand how anyone can be FOR the death penalty as it's currently constructed.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
There you are. Stop beating around the bush (actually keep beating the Bush.....f*ck it beat the whole family). It's wrong, always was and always will be.
well, you and I are against it for ethical reasons, but the insane amount of money spent on it is... insane!
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,835
3,322
The bunker at parliament
well, you and I are against it for ethical reasons, but the insane amount of money spent on it is... insane!
The Chinese method is much cheaper, one bullet and bill the offenders family for the service.

But that said, the death penalty is barbaric and to continue using it in this day and age stupid.:plthumbsdown:
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,196
4
Agreed! Especially for the rape one.
Really? What about statutory rape? Maybe that kid that got a BJ and was sentenced to ten years....think he should have his johnson cut off? Or how about date rape, where its he said/she said and what happened is vague?
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,213
22
Blindly running into cactus
Baze was convicted in 1992 of shooting a sheriff and a deputy sheriff in Powell County, Kentucky. Bowling was convicted of murdering a couple and shooting their two-year-old, after their cars collided in 1990. Neither has an execution date yet.
if that were my wife and 2yr old in the car that were murdered he wouldn't have made it out of the courthouse. i've worked in this jacked up court system long enough to know that it's a joke and the truly guilty are rarely punished to the extent necessary.
i agree that the death penalty needs to be revamped to ensure no innocent person is executed but this waiting on death row crap is a farce. if the system is fixed, the bastard is guilty then take him/her out back of the courthouse immediately following the verdict and hang his/her ass thus eliminating the state spending buku bucks paying for the room and board of these useless human beings.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
Most people are fueled by emotions and not logic, especially anger
If the system worked and we knew for a fact these people were guilty of those crimes, I have no moral problem with killing them. Sanctity of life is bull**** religious crap, if you really want to bring logic into this. There are crimes so heinous and people so un-reformable that they don't deserve to live.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
i if the system is fixed, the bastard is guilty then take him/her out back of the courthouse immediately following the verdict and hang his/her ass thus eliminating the state spending buku bucks paying for the room and board of these useless human beings.
Bingo.

The death penalty isn't a deterrent the way it is now. Richard Ramirez is still alive and he got MARRIED for fvck's sake.

Kill several innocent people? Oh hey, how about room and board for 20 years?
:disgust1:



I agree with eye for an eye. If said eye is a life, you lose yours. Simple.




And removing a rapist's asshole is totally ok too. They make tools for that.

http://www.technex.pl/supplier/Jarvis/engl/bung_droppers.htm
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,679
22,789
Sleazattle
Bingo.

The death penalty isn't a deterrent the way it is now. Richard Ramirez is still alive and he got MARRIED for fvck's sake.

Kill several innocent people? Oh hey, how about room and board for 20 years?
:disgust1:



I agree with eye for an eye. If said eye is a life, you lose yours. Simple.




And removing a rapist's asshole is totally ok too. They make tools for that.

http://www.technex.pl/supplier/Jarvis/engl/bung_droppers.htm

What do I have to do to get tazered?
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
So, theoretically speaking, would it be possible to purchase a bag full of assholes?
Literally.

At the ghetto supermarket near where I used to live in Oakland you could buy a bag of "pork tails", which are essentially tails with the asshole attached.

I only walked into that store once.
:disgust1:
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,228
1,463
NC
At the ghetto supermarket near where I used to live in Oakland you could buy a bag of "pork tails", which are essentially tails with the asshole attached.
Attached? Were they an integral part of the tail so it gets eaten all at once, or could you gnaw the asshole right off the tail like the head on a marshmallow Peep?
 

jaydee

Monkey
Jul 5, 2001
794
0
Victoria BC
Interested to see this. My guess is that it's a momentary correction and business will proceed as usual in 2008/after the judgement. Be nice if it was the beginning of the end though nasty bastards mentioned in the article notwithstanding.
For those monsters, I would say that lethal injection is far too lenient and humane. Unless they are injected with sulfuric acid or Drano; that would be appropriate. The taking of human life is immoral and wrong, but that's not really the case here. These vermin have given up their rights to be considered human. Exterminate them.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,213
22
Blindly running into cactus
For those monsters, I would say that lethal injection is far too lenient and humane. Unless they are injected with sulfuric acid or Drano; that would be appropriate. The taking of human life is immoral and wrong, but that's not really the case here. These vermin have given up their rights to be considered human. Exterminate them.

no, no, no..you've got it all wrong. these "monsters" are just victims of their circumstances and we should be helping them and forming special interest groups for them to join so their rights can be protected :rolleyes:
 

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,976
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
The system has failed, in both directions.

The guilty aren't being deterred by a system that takes 20 years to execute them. To top that off at least a third of the people on death row get exonorated by DNA or other evidence, which leads to the inevitable conclusion that we are killing innocent people. In Texas and Illinois it's easier to get put on death row than get food stamps.

I don't know what the answer is. As a buddhist I'm opposed to killing period. As a father, husband, and someone trained to kill, it would be hard not to be at the courthouse beside Manimal. I do know we can't continue with a system that almost certainly is killing innocent people, and we can't continue with a system that delays justice for decades, especially if you have money.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,746
1,827
chez moi
If the system worked and we knew for a fact these people were guilty of those crimes, I have no moral problem with killing them. Sanctity of life is bull**** religious crap, if you really want to bring logic into this. There are crimes so heinous and people so un-reformable that they don't deserve to live.
I like you when you're angry.

And I even agree.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,746
1,827
chez moi
The guilty aren't being deterred by a system that takes 20 years to execute them.
The death penalty really isn't that much of a deterrent. When you're talking about such heinous crimes, people don't weigh the consequences when they commit them.

Ed: Oh, and VB, "State-sanctioned murder" is an oxymoron. Murder is the unlawful taking of human life. Execution by the state is the culmination of a legal process.

Ed II: None of this is to say that the current US legal system is doing a good job with capital punishment. I'd rather have none than a ****ed-up system. But I'd rather have a fair and efficient legal system that doles out appropriate punishment above all other options. And I think execution is the only appropriate punishment for some criminals.

By the way, did anyone else see "Dead Man Walking" (or, rather, the true story behind the movie) as a superb example of why we SHOULD be executing people? That ****er deserved to fry, and shouldn't have been afforded the opportunity to waste oxygen for as long as he did. Although I do recommend the soundtrack (the "inspired by" one, not the actual track). Some really great stuff on there, from Johnny Cash and Steve Earle especially, despite the obvious differences in my feelings on the death penalty.