An even bigger tantrum?
- Thread starter Sandwich
- Start date
That slider is basically just another shock in terms of seals/sources of friction. Except with an even lower leverage advantage to overcome it.
I don't doubt that it pedals really well. However, damping is not strictly a function of reducing pedal movement. The fact that the designers keep referencing damping in this way makes me trust them about 0%
I don't doubt that it pedals really well. However, damping is not strictly a function of reducing pedal movement. The fact that the designers keep referencing damping in this way makes me trust them about 0%
Well, it should have less friction than a shock because it's not pressurized and it's only got one seal, instead of a few between the damper and spring. But yeah, basically.
Like people have been saying, this is just a way to tune the kinematics of what is, at the end of the day, really just a 4 bar linkage. And that's fine! Maybe they tuned it really well. But like you said, all this talk about not needing damping reeks of bullshit, and makes me not believe anything else they're saying either.
Didn't DW himself say something like "the dumber the shock, the better it works" when talking about the DW-Link? I recall him talking along that line when referring to damping platforms and stuff in relation to the AS tuning of his system.
Since this is essentially a one-rodded Switch Infinity, which is essentially a modified DW-Link, wouldn't the "lower damping" claims by Darrel Voss hold true?
Since this is essentially a one-rodded Switch Infinity, which is essentially a modified DW-Link, wouldn't the "lower damping" claims by Darrel Voss hold true?
Dw said a lot of things.
In regards to pedaling on his bikes he was right. In regards to everything else one does on a bike (when standing up at least), his early bikes (and most of the current ones) benefit very greatly from some good ole fashioned smarty pants compression damping.
Its a simple fact... a spring absorbs and stores energy, then releases it back into the system. You need damping to dissipate energy (turn it into heat in this case). without damping, you would just go boingy boing boing.
Too good to let go that I reversed what I meant to say?
After that article, I need to dampen my liver, with scotch.
Not to rag on Marin and Polygon as companies, but if a genius wizard suspension designer had truly found the holy grail of suspension design, I would find it very surprising that he pursued those 2 companies as his partners in development...but maybe that's irrelevant and I'm missing something.
In any case, the first thing that stuck out at me was the claim about not needing damping. That's bull. It sounds like the same thing that Santa Cruz and other companies said about VPP back in the day..."pedals so well you don't need compression damping!" Yeah, the old Nomad had like 200% anti-squat.
The second thing was how similar the rhetoric is to the way that all of these magazines have described previous bikes. Bikes with significant rearward axle paths were greeted with the same commentary: "rides like nothing I've ever tried before! Irons out bumps!" Bikes with lots of anti-squat were talked about as "XC bike up and DH bike down, one bike to rule them all!" There could be something here that is truly revolutionary, but as kidwoo mentions, similarities to the way that the hype machine has talked about previous bikes in the past has given me complete distrust of this tech.
In any case, the first thing that stuck out at me was the claim about not needing damping. That's bull. It sounds like the same thing that Santa Cruz and other companies said about VPP back in the day..."pedals so well you don't need compression damping!" Yeah, the old Nomad had like 200% anti-squat.
The second thing was how similar the rhetoric is to the way that all of these magazines have described previous bikes. Bikes with significant rearward axle paths were greeted with the same commentary: "rides like nothing I've ever tried before! Irons out bumps!" Bikes with lots of anti-squat were talked about as "XC bike up and DH bike down, one bike to rule them all!" There could be something here that is truly revolutionary, but as kidwoo mentions, similarities to the way that the hype machine has talked about previous bikes in the past has given me complete distrust of this tech.
If we've learnt anything from the tantrum fiasco, it's to never apply any form of logic to these clearly illogical monstrosities.
See above.
There's another new bike on PB today (Spot 29) claiming the same thing - using a leaf spring that magically eliminates the need for damping. Because springs are now dampers.
I just found a spy shot of a test mule for the next big MTB revolutionary suspension system:
I could use some more compression damping in trail mode on my 5010, with its similarly magic-hyped VPP. Thing bobs like mad when standing.
Hey @Gary does this guy have permission to plaster around pics of your new enduro rig?I just found a spy shot of a test mule for the next big MTB revolutionary suspension system:
I Laufed.I just found a spy shot of a test mule for the next big MTB revolutionary suspension system:
I can't wait for the return of the URT overlords!
all frames ship with a thudbuster
it still makes me think.
Someone got out their favourite bike design software, maybe it was just a pen and pencil, and started working on their brilliant solution to allow a bike to pivot around the bottom bracket - without the awful pedaling that normally results in. Tens of people wanted this! It'll be a best seller! What else do people want? 14+" high bottom brackets, 100mm stems, several pieces of rotating hardware at exactly knee height...
It's the design of the century!
Someone got out their favourite bike design software, maybe it was just a pen and pencil, and started working on their brilliant solution to allow a bike to pivot around the bottom bracket - without the awful pedaling that normally results in. Tens of people wanted this! It'll be a best seller! What else do people want? 14+" high bottom brackets, 100mm stems, several pieces of rotating hardware at exactly knee height...
It's the design of the century!
Yeah, that's the thing that I find so interesting about that bike. It's actually a pretty neat, clever bit of engineering, to accomplish something that nobody wants and makes no sense as a design goal.
I love seeing it turn up each year at Sea Otter. It's just so misdirected. It makes me outrageously happy that people have given this guy money in return for one of the least necesasary bikes ever made. Figured out a way to make a bb pivot bike pedal well? Better make is singlespeed! Oh god I love this flaming garbage pile of a bike
Edit: forgot my favourite, favourite part. Got rid of the derailleur and miss smashing delicate bike parts into rocks? Don't worry, the rear brake calliper is underneath the chainstay. Because fuck you, that's why
Last edited:
at least in that picture it's in an appropriate booth.
mik on board a dh iteration. fascinating:
rux fork..... needs rux rearmik on board a dh iteration. fascinating:
I wonder if it's even a DH version, the regular one is 180mm of travel right? Why not just throw on a Rux, maybe some offset headset cups and call it a day?mik on board a dh iteration. fascinating:
it's def not the trail bike - shock mount location is the biggest obvious difference.
So world's most complicated Orange?
Not that this wasn't obvious when some of AS graphs were shared and they showed the videos with the kickback one would have expected.
IMO different strokes for folks. Lots of people get on with the Orange and higher pivot bikes with that 'pop' effect you get with the rising AS....
So Tracey Hannah won Garbo on this thing with a Rux on the front end and Kenda tires, what is the world coming to?
You have it all wrong. In the picture they are not dead, but they are rolling on the floor laughing, because the bike market prices exploded.
Last edited: