[DRB]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16818179/from/RS.3/

The Bush administration has authorized the U.S. military to kill or capture Iranian operatives inside Iraq as part of an aggressive new strategy to weaken Tehran's influence across the Middle East and compel it to give up its nuclear program, according to government and counterterrorism officials with direct knowledge of the effort.

For more than a year, U.S. forces in Iraq have secretly detained dozens of suspected Iranian agents, holding them for three to four days at a time. The "catch and release" policy was designed to avoid escalating tensions with Iran and yet intimidate its emissaries. U.S. forces collected DNA samples from some of the Iranians without their knowledge, subjected others to retina scans, and fingerprinted and photographed all of them before letting them go.

Three officials said that about 150 Iranian intelligence officers, plus members of Iran's Revolutionary Guard Command, are believed to be active inside Iraq at any given time. There is no evidence the Iranians have directly attacked U.S. troops in Iraq, intelligence officials said.

Why even say you are changing the policy or creating a new one? Just do it. All this does is make for media coverage (none of which can really be good). If an Iranian gets killed in Iraq during some operation against a militia everyone is pretty much going to get what he was doing.

As for the thought that this will pressure Iran into making some sort of change in their nuclear policy... I just can't grasp that logic.

Saudi Arabia is doing a much better job messing with Iran right now then any effort we could make.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

seems to me, W is trying to pick up a "defensive" fight.

 

[LordOpie]

when we invade Iran, we'll have it documented in the media for public consumption that warnings were given and now, we have "no" choice!

 

[valve bouncer]

Wonder how that goes with the Kurds. Nations within the state and all that. Sounds like a recipe for abuse to me.

 

[$tinkle]

Why even say you are changing the policy or creating a new one? Just do it. All this does is make for media coverage (none of which can really be good).

given the handling of the last 5 years' major events in the middle east, propaganda is just as important as precision air strikes. look what happened twix israel & lebanon this past summer. on paper, israel kicked the 3-legged dog schyte out of hezbollah, but when the dust settled, nasrallah was lionized. reuters' stringers were complicit in making israelis out to be blood-thirsty baby-killers, fighting out of losing desperation.

of course, all that now amounts to a short-lived gain, as lebanon is starting to crack.

 

[fluff]

israel kicked the 3-legged dog schyte out of hezbollah,

Really? Where did you get that from? Are you unaware that the Israeli chief-of-staff has resigned over the invasion?

Ah, the US news networks. Bless 'em.

 

[$tinkle]

Really? Where did you get that from? Are you unaware that the Israeli chief-of-staff has resigned over the invasion?

blockaded the ports, shut off supply lines, shattered their infrastructure...none of this was done on any scale by hezbollah.

Gen Halutz's resignation could have been avoided if they'd gone in & killed all civilian-embedded fighters, causing heavy collateral damage, which would have further cost the israelis from a PR point of view.

Ah, the US news networks. Bless 'em.

you'd rather trust reuters on this topic?

 

[fluff]

You seem to be confusing hezbolllah and Lebanese civilians.

Reuters = red herring

Accurate info:

About 1,000 Lebanese were killed in the conflict, mostly civilians in Israel's vast bombardment of the county and land invasion in the south. Lebanon's infrastructure also suffered extensive damage.

The Israeli army lost 116 soldiers. Forty-three Israeli civilians were also killed by more than 4,000 Hezbollah rocket attacks.

As for avoiding killing 'civilian-embedded' fighters you are talking nonsense as the above figures clearly illustrate. They had no idea where the hezbollah fighters were.

 

[DRB]

You seem to be confusing hezbolllah and Lebanese civilians.

Reuters = red herring

Accurate info:

About 1,000 Lebanese were killed in the conflict, mostly civilians in Israel's vast bombardment of the county and land invasion in the south. Lebanon's infrastructure also suffered extensive damage.

The Israeli army lost 116 soldiers. Forty-three Israeli civilians were also killed by more than 4,000 Hezbollah rocket attacks.

As for avoiding killing 'civilian-embedded' fighters you are talking nonsense as the above figures clearly illustrate. They had no idea where the hezbollah fighters were.

Yeah did you loot any motorcycles?

 

[$tinkle]

You seem to be confusing hezbolllah and Lebanese civilians.

but then you write:

About 1,000 Lebanese were killed in the conflict, mostly civilians

so i think we can agree hezbollah (a militia & not a regular army) is in some part comprised of a lebanese civilian element. i forget why we would care, so let's press on...

The Israeli army lost 116 soldiers. Forty-three Israeli civilians were also killed by more than 4,000 Hezbollah rocket attacks.

As for avoiding killing 'civilian-embedded' fighters you are talking nonsense as the above figures clearly illustrate. They had no idea where the hezbollah fighters were.

except for this

Israel’s military, which has been accused of abuses in its war against Hezbollah this summer, has declassified photographs, video images and prisoner interrogations to buttress its accusation that Hezbollah systematically fired from civilian neighborhoods in southern Lebanon and took cover in those areas to shield itself from attack.

Israel says that it tried to avoid civilians, but that Hezbollah fired from civilian areas, itself a war crime, which made those areas legitimate targets.

In a new report, an Israeli research group says Hezbollah stored weapons in mosques, battled Israelis from inside empty schools, flew white flags while transporting missiles and launched rockets near United Nations monitoring posts.

and this here seems to apply directly to you:

The [detailed report on the war] says: “The construction of a broad military infrastructure, positioned and hidden in populated areas, was intended to minimize Hezbollah’s vulnerability. Hezbollah would also gain a propaganda advantage if it could represent Israel as attacking innocent civilians.”

also, i don't see how reuters is a red herring when you first introduce u.s. media as being a poisoned well.

 

[fluff]

Yeah did you loot any motorcycles?

Nah, all gone by the time I got there.

 

[fluff]

Basically Israel failed, heads have rolled, Hezbollah have got stronger.

I typed loads but IE lost it and I can't be arsed to engage in any more dumb arguments about Lebanon.

I have been surprised that no one has noticed that Lebanon is on the verge of civil war.

 

[$tinkle]

Basically Israel failed, heads have rolled, Hezbollah have got stronger.

if this is a victory for lebanon/hezbollah, i shudder to think what a defeat would look like

I have been surprised that no one has noticed that Lebanon is on the verge of civil war.

so i'm a nobody?
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2431770&postcount=5
(last sentence)

 

[valve bouncer]

if this is a victory for lebanon/hezbollah, i shudder to think what a defeat would look like

A bit like Vietnam I'd reckon.

 

[fluff]

Once again you confuse Lebanon and Hezbollah...

 

[fluff]

so i'm a nobody?
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2431770&postcount=5
(last sentence)

It took long enough for pity's sake...

 

[$tinkle]

Once again you confuse Lebanon and Hezbollah...

venn diagram time:
there are elements of hezbollah both within & beyond the lebanese
there are elements of lebanese both within & beyond hezbollah

for the purposes of the 2006 war w/ israel, i will purposefully conflate the 2 in order to demonstrate iran's heavy influence on lebanese politics, as exacted by hezbollah.

yeah, you're right, lebanon's a dumb topic.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

venn diagram time:
there are elements of hezbollah both within & beyond the lebanese
there are elements of lebanese both within & beyond hezbollah

for the purposes of the 2006 war w/ israel, i will purposefully conflate the 2 in order to demonstrate iran's heavy influence on lebanese politics, as exacted by hezbollah.

yeah, you're right, lebanon's a dumb topic.

All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are sqaures.....

 

[$tinkle]

All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are sqaures.....

so who do you think is the rect & who's teh sq?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

so who do you think is the rect & who's teh sq?

Well see that where the pentagon gets involved...then it gets retardedly more complex.

 

[fluff]

It would appear that Iran and Saudi Arabia are seeking to avoid a civil war in Lebanon. Ergo the calling off of the Hezbollah-organised strike.

 

[fluff]

Talking of obscure subjects; anyone know who the Somali Interim Govt's deputy PM is?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Talking of obscure subjects; anyone know who the Somali Interim Govt's deputy PM is?

Chuck Norris?

 

[$tinkle]

It would appear that Iran and Saudi Arabia are seeking to avoid a civil war in Lebanon. Ergo the calling off of the Hezbollah-organised strike.

which is odd, as they are (seemingly) in a proxy war in iraq. add to that the whole hariri mess from almost 2 yrs ago...

you think maybe they're protecting their favorite vacation land?

 

[fluff]

which is odd, as they are (seemingly) in a proxy war in iraq. add to that the whole hariri mess from almost 2 yrs ago...

you think maybe they're protecting their favorite vacation land?

Perhaps they realise that any further destabilisation of the region could have far greater consequences than simply another small war.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Basically Israel failed, heads have rolled, Hezbollah have got stronger.

I typed loads but IE lost it and I can't be arsed to engage in any more dumb arguments about Lebanon.

I have been surprised that no one has noticed that Lebanon is on the verge of civil war.

and you dont consider that a + for israel?

military, it became pretty clear any attack coming from lebanon (can be extended to others as well), at least as long as olmert is in office, will be paid dearly.
i consider the deterrance value of the latest war, and IF no further attacks from from lebanon come as a consecuence of the latest smackdown... then yes, it served a greater purpose, and yes, it was a victory.

 

[fluff]

Considering Hezbollah sprang from the last civil war and they have been a much greater thorn in Israel's side than the PLO were in Lebanon I'd say you'd have to be pretty dumb to see a civil war on your doorstep as a good thing.