[johnbryanpeters]

Argues that one might need a smaller frame than one thinks:

Three New Mountain Bikes We Love

Go all in on every ride with one of these capable rigs

www.outsideonline.com

 

[jonKranked]

#1 - outside inc can fuck right off from mountain biking

#2 - i'm not paying to read their drivel, not on their website not on pinkbike

#3 - bike companies are finally starting to figure out sizing & geometry overall, its a huge improvement of years past. its still up to the individual rider to pick the bike that's the right size for them AND the trails/terrain they will be riding. this is nothing new. for instance, i love the idea of the geometron bikes, but they're not on my list of bikes to purchase because they simply aren't suitable for my local trails & terrain.

 

[iRider]

I lol'd at that we ride more technical trails than ever. This is not even true for the Worldcup DH tracks, not to talk about all the local trails that get the roots removed, gravel put on and bermified.

 

[jonKranked]

I lol'd at that we ride more technical trails than ever. This is not even true for the Worldcup DH tracks, not to talk about all the local trails that get the roots removed, gravel put on and bermified.

the jackass that wrote the article might, because anything is more technical than a paved parking lot.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I lol'd at that we ride more technical trails than ever. This is not even true for the Worldcup DH tracks, not to talk about all the local trails that get the roots removed, gravel put on and bermified.

Yeah, the increasingly machine built bermy bullshit is not my idea of excellence, but I'm sure the ebikers love it...

And yeah, another fit wizard with overpriced services...

That said, fit for roadies ain't fit for off roadies.

 

[jonKranked]

I lol'd at that we ride more technical trails than ever. This is not even true for the Worldcup DH tracks, not to talk about all the local trails that get the roots removed, gravel put on and bermified.

"i love lockouts" says it all.

 

[Sandwich]

Your Mountain Bike Is Probably Too Big for You

The long-low-slack trend has produced bikes that handle fantastically, but versatility and fit have suffered

www.outsideonline.com

original link not working for me.

I didn't finish the article...technically I should be working....but from the first half, I agree- reaches have gotten insane, and while they work for some terrain, they don't work for all. ie if you're on the east coast and also climb, you probably don't need a 490mm reach at 5'11". Heck, you might even need a head angle over 62*. And you may need bars under 800mm.

 

[iRider]

Your Mountain Bike Is Probably Too Big for You

The long-low-slack trend has produced bikes that handle fantastically, but versatility and fit have suffered

www.outsideonline.com

original link not working for me.

I didn't finish the article...technically I should be working....but from the first half, I agree- reaches have gotten insane, and while they work for some terrain, they don't work for all. ie if you're on the east coast and also climb, you probably don't need a 490mm reach at 5'11". Heck, you might even need a head angle over 62*. And you may need bars under 800mm.

While I agree with you and the article, there is still enough variety in the market to meet everyone's needs in terms of geometry (unless you want a 26" bike ).
If not, downsizing by one or two frame sizes is an option as are angle adjust headsets.

 

[dump]

You need a bigger bike…
Years later…
You need a smaller bike…
….
….
Repeat.

 

[Westy]

You can pry my long reach bikes out of my cold dead hands.

Until I move somwhere with rolling terrain then I will happily trade them in. It isn't really the reach that is the issue for me with rolling terrain, it is the steep assed seat tubes which enable the long reaches, which become a pain in the ass if you are in and out of the saddle a lot as you need to drop/raise the saddle constantly.

Also my long ass enderpo bike pedals a hell of a lot better than my old XC bikes ever did. I think the long wheelbase reduces weight transfer making for a much more stable platform.

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah, the increasingly machine built bermy bullshit is not my idea of excellence, but I'm sure the ebikers love it...

have you looked outside lately?

"mountain"bikers like it

 

[kidwoo]

You can pry my long reach bikes out of my cold dead hands.

Until I move somwhere with rolling terrain then I will happily trade them in. It isn't really the reach that is the issue for me with rolling terrain, it is the steep assed seat tubes which enable the long reaches, which become a pain in the ass if you are in and out of the saddle a lot as you need to drop/raise the saddle constantly.

Also my long ass enderpo bike pedals a hell of a lot better than my old XC bikes ever did. I think the long wheelbase reduces weight transfer making for a much more stable platform.

there's definitely some truth in this.......easier to hold a line when smashing full quadzilla up some stupid shitty steep rock/root section. Definitely less twitchy



I get why bikes got long

look what this poor fucker was expected to go fast on

There's also definitely a phenomenon of 5'6" people out there on 29ers with bars so wide they can't move the bike side to side and reach so long they will never be able to lift the front wheel over anything

 

[jonKranked]

There's also definitely a phenomenon of 5'6" people out there on 29ers with bars so wide they can't move the bike side to side and reach so long they will never be able to lift the front wheel over anything

frankly i'm amazed some of those people are able to pedal.

also, drop stems.

 

[kidwoo]

frankly i'm amazed some of those people are able to pedal.

literally the only thing they can do

 

[jonKranked]

literally the only thing they can do

"make i should buy a bike that fits?"

<smokes crack>

nope!

 

[jonKranked]

literally the only thing they can do

no, the other thing they can do is crash

 

[Westy]

there's definitely some truth in this.......easier to hold a line when smashing full quadzilla up some stupid shitty steep rock/root section. Definitely less twitchy



I get why bikes got long

look what this poor fucker was expected to go fast on

There's also definitely a phenomenon of 5'6" people out there on 29ers with bars so wide they can't move the bike side to side and reach so long they will never be able to lift the front wheel over anything

I don't know why people decided to start with geometry from this

Instead of this

 

[kidwoo]

I don't know why people decided to start with geometry from this

View attachment 165348
Instead of this

View attachment 165347

mostly because early 'mountainbiking' was just another pedal contest because if you tried to ride fast downhill everything would break. But yeah that shit lasted WAY too long. Hundreds of threads here in the dh forum of me and a few other people getting constantly made fun of via "I needs mah BB that high cuz mah aim sux"

if you remember, dh bikes were kinda like moto geo, still short and very upright. We all remember the moto bro with the highest stem/bar combo he could find because that's what his dirtbike felt like.

headangles sure (basically the same as dh bikes now) but the riding position difference between an mtb and a dirtbike is very different for a good reason. One the biggest hurdles for me learning to ride a dirtbike was getting away from the death grip bracing your handlebars to keep the bike out in front of you when hitting things. You don't need to do that on a dirtbike because it weighs so much more (and the suspension works a hell of a lot better as a result). Plus to preload the rear end to get the front wheel over something it's so much more exaggerated of a motion on a dirtbike, you kinda gotta be able to get over the back a little more. As a starting point though, you're right. It just shows who the bike industry was listening to and what they saw mountainbikes for.

I look at old dual slalom vids from the late 90's and early 2000's and it looks like the most dangerous sport ever on those tiny little xc hardtail frames

 

[iRider]

I don't know why people decided to start with geometry from this

View attachment 165348
Instead of this

View attachment 165347

Not true, people started with this, which was fairly acceptable (for DH).

 

[kidwoo]

Not true, people started with this, which was fairly acceptable (for DH).

Good point

roadies ruin everything


christ, even today people talk about this crap like it was good

the correct response was "no john, you're an idiot, and if you do that again you're fired"

 

[Westy]

mostly because early 'mountainbiking' was just another pedal contest because if you tried to ride fast downhill everything would break. But yeah that shit lasted WAY too long. Hundreds of threads here in the dh forum of me and a few other people getting constantly made fun of via "I needs mah BB that high cuz mah aim sux"

if you remember, dh bikes were kinda like moto geo, still short and very upright. We all remember the moto bro with the highest stem/bar combo he could find because that's what his dirtbike felt like.

headangles sure (basically the same as dh bikes now) but the riding position difference between an mtb and a dirtbike is very different for a good reason. One the biggest hurdles for me learning to ride a dirtbike was getting away from the death grip bracing your handlebars to keep the bike out in front of you when hitting things. You don't need to do that on a dirtbike because it weighs so much more (and the suspension works a hell of a lot better as a result). Plus to preload the rear end to get the front wheel over something it's so much more exaggerated of a motion on a dirtbike, you kinda gotta be able to get over the back a little more. As a starting point though, you're right. It just shows who the bike industry was listening to and what they saw mountainbikes for.

I look at old dual slalom vids from the late 90's and early 2000's and it looks like the most dangerous sport ever on those tiny little xc hardtail frames

I occasional use my bike from 1997 as a bar bike. I feel like it is actively trying to kill me, then I remember how looking at a bump would launch me over the bars and realize it was designed to try to kill me. I was just a lot tougher then.

I also have a theory that if you built a bike with modern geometry with year 2000 technology, it would have been either a 50lb tank or a noodly piece of garbage. And for actual bikes that can be pedaled, you need a slack seat tube if you don't have a dropper post.

 

[kidwoo]

I occasional use my bike from 1997 as a bar bike. I feel like it is actively trying to kill me, then I remember how looking at a bump would launch me over the bars and realize it was designed to try to kill me. I was just a lot tougher then.

I also have a theory that if you built a bike with modern geometry with year 2000 technology, it would have been either a 50lb tank or a noodly piece of garbage. And for actual bikes that can be pedaled, you need a slack seat tube if you don't have a dropper post.

there's a reason a lot of us gravitated towards dh bikes back then

they were the only things really rideable


As far as the whole rEaAcH as gospel thing, other than a few exceptions I always was able to find comfy bikes at 5'8"

I used to buy larges.....then mediums.....then my last purchase was a size 2/4 of guerilla gravity sizing. Across 25 years now I look at pics of me riding and size-wise they don't look that different

tall people were just fucked over year after year until recently

because roadies are horrible people and must be stopped at every turn

 

[iRider]

christ, even today people talk about this crap like it was good

He invented the gravel bike! What did JT not do?

 

[kidwoo]

What did JT not do?

foster good mountainbike development

gravel indeed......

 

[Adventurous]

there's a reason a lot of us gravitated towards dh bikes back then

they were the only things really rideable


As far as the whole rEaAcH as gospel thing, other than a few exceptions I always was able to find comfy bikes at 5'8"

I used to buy larges.....then mediums.....then my last purchase was a size 2/4 of guerilla gravity sizing. Across 25 years now I look at pics of me riding and size-wise they don't look that different

tall people were just fucked over year after year until recently

because roadies are horrible people and must be stopped at every turn

At 5'7", I find I'm always on the cusp of S/M. The reach of a medium is more appropriate, but the seat tube tends to be too long, so I don't have enough room to maneuver.

In the end I've gone with smalls to protect my beans and just dealt with the shorter cockpit. Next bike I'll try a little harder to find something with a longer top tube and shorter seat tube.

 

[kidwoo]

At 5'7", I find I'm always on the cusp of S/M. The reach of a medium is more appropriate, but the seat tube tends to be too long, so I don't have enough room to maneuver.

In the end I've gone with smalls to protect my beans and just dealt with the shorter cockpit. Next bike I'll try a little harder to find something with a longer top tube and shorter seat tube.

Ill just say the same thing Ive been saying for 17 years now on this website: look at wheelbase numbers when comparing similar frames. We recognize roadie shit has no place in mtb but obsessing over reach numbers is just more roadie shit. One mfgs small is the same as anothers medium

but very little will tell you how a bike will move around with body english as much as your contact patch of the wheels. Its the wheel you are always leveraging off of to move the bike around. We're adaptable monkeys. Fixating over 10mm of reach, which is easily adjusted with bar sweep, width and rise is just insane

 

[Atomic Dog]

Fixating over 10mm of reach, which is easily adjusted with bar sweep, width and rise is just insane Ridemonkey.

 

[Full Trucker]

And PinkBike, and MTBR, and Vital, and, and, and...

 

[jonKranked]

And PinkBike, and MTBR, and Vital, and, and, and...

i've been spending more time over on vital, definitely not as bad there.

 

[kidwoo]

And PinkBike, and MTBR, and Vital, and, and, and...

ADA conventions....there are many places where roadies congregate

 

[stevew]

 

[profro]

There's also definitely a phenomenon of 5'6" people out there on 29ers with bars so wide they can't move the bike side to side and reach so long they will never be able to lift the front wheel over anything

I see an alarming amount of local kids riding around on high end bikes that are way too big for them with handlebar widths so wide that their little arms are fully extended. How do bike shops allow this to happen when selling bikes?

 

[Sandwich]

selling bikes

There it is…

 

[two-one]

okay, so the list of articles for this author doesn't inspire much confidence in his technical riding skillset: Joe Lindsey Archives | Outside Online
I tend to be a bit skeptical around the newest trends, like having a 500mm reach, 63 headangle and 78 seatangle on a Large non-downhill bike. Especially when you see those used around my town (in THE flattest country on earth). But when I see the average consumer ride away on their new bike, most of them look like a slipped disc waiting to happen through their over-arched lower back and stretched arms.
I rarely worry about their bike size, and more about the bar height and hip-flexibility.
I help most people by adjusting their saddle, telling them to stretch more...

 

[jonKranked]

How do bike shops allow this to happen when selling bikes?

Money?

 

[profro]

I would hope they would still get the sale by saying "great choice, now lets cut those bars to fit your tiny shoulder width"

?

 

[Sandwich]

I would hope they would still get the sale by saying "great choice, now lets cut those bars to fit your tiny shoulder width"

?

Every bike shop I've been to in the last decade has featured the absolute lowest level of customer service possible. Now that they are printing money, why would they raise the bar?

Actually I take that back, I can think of a pair of good ones in the Boston area.

 

[jonKranked]

I would hope they would still get the sale by saying "great choice, now lets cut those bars to fit your tiny shoulder width"

?

kids grow, they may not fit now, but they will in the near future.

 

[Westy]

kids grow, they may not fit now, but they will in the near future.

My friends kid used to ride around in a bike like this as he was riding his parents bikes. They weren't going to spend that kind of money on the little shit.

 

[Adventurous]

Every bike shop I've been to in the last decade has featured the absolute lowest level of customer service possible. Now that they are printing money, why would they raise the bar?

Actually I take that back, I can think of a pair of good ones in the Boston area.

Please don't tell me the Cycle Loft is on that list.

JRA and Landrys?