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Ancient Wealth

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,022
Sleazattle

Good read, basically, thus ever was after the Agrarian revolution.
I've mentioned this multiple times but I highly recommend reading Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. He has a fairly accurate take on the agricultural revolution that I haven't seen anywhere else.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I've mentioned this multiple times but I highly recommend reading Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. He has a fairly accurate take on the agricultural revolution that I haven't seen anywhere else.
Man that guy doesn't even read books he recommends.

That one is sitting on the shelf right now after your rec a while back. One day. You don't get this bitter and vicious by not hate reading afterall...
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Absolutely serious Q here, Woo….is there a societal system in any age of history there has met or exceeds your demanding standards?
And what are those standards, exactly?
No cupping wealthy balls who gave 2% of their wealth to whitewash how the 100% was made is a start.

Small pockets yes. Current nordic countries (although some creepy master race shit needs to be eliminated). Generally most communities minus monarchy and unfettered capitalism (or some fucked up mongol with a battle ax) have worked pretty damn civil.

The problem is all the big ones all succumb to wealth and power, ours included pretty much since inception. Eliminate market masters and the rest usually falls into place. And a bourgeoisie (you and sorta me included) like our luxuries which right now depend on cheap shit from slave labor. Brian aint gonna give that up.

But just because our species has a history of disaster doesn't mean we can't do better. People do come up with new and better shit you know. We just started talking to people on the other side of the world in our parents generation. Syadasti and Brian aside, we're pretty smrt monkies. We're just now coming out of an age of take by force resource use (still kinda innit).

Minus the redlining loans and Jim Crow crap, we actually were doing pretty damn well in the right direction under FDR. Check tax rates before reagan. Not all but some of what the US was moving towards was pretty legit. Then the dipshitgipper changed that entire direction. The generation that learned the lessons of the great depression all died. That's been a problem for us. The puzzle pieces for better are out there. The whole idea of a 'world power' will always be a problem.
 
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rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
23,067
11,303
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Agree with pretty much all of that. Social democracy only seems to be viable when you have a fairly small population, and marketable resources.
I am sure you have figured out that I don’t revere any particular wealth, past or present. Almost all wealth is in some way ‘dirty’, period.
However, descendants of Rich Fucking Bastards can, and have done, things to mitigate the tarnish of the robber Barron’s various dastardly deeds.
Once again, “It’s complicated”.
Shitting on the past is certainly fun, but doesn’t really get us anywhere looking towards the future.
Do you have a societal construct in mind that you think we could try, ignoring the political reality of implementing such change?
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Bitter
What do you propose, exactly?
Realistic. It's not bitterness it's perspective.

Nelson rockefeller did not create or invent, or preserve the teton valley. Andrew Carnegie did not invent libraries (some folks in alexandria would like a word), the koch brothers and daddy koch did not invent pretty historical museums (although they helped fund the pillaging).

My only proposal is to fucking read, and learn about this shit. People only defend these fools because they've seen nothing else and assume that's the only way it can be.

You touched on it in your earlier post..it's window dressing, make up. Not much there there but kissing babies while you rob mom's purse. If we'd taxed them to begin with, much of what they 'achieved' could have been done better. And in many cases, sooner. The covid vaccines are a decent recent example. Did you pay attention to efficacy of the options? Which ones came from where?
 
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rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
23,067
11,303
In the cleavage of the Tetons
I think you are reading what you want to read into my comments, I have never defended any of them, or claimed they invented anything. I know a LOT about this, and that world, likely far, far more than you. Before Carnegie, except for the tiniest of examples, libraries were for the extraordinarily pious, learned, or wealthy.
Literacy exploded as a result of books being available to basically everyone, (whites in the south?) so that all classes (theoretically) could ‘read and learn about this shit’.
Alexandria was for nobility, military, or religious leaders, basically.

(Dad dickwave, my father was director of NYPL Antiquities and research, and conducted his Oxford degree on the history of libraries in different societies, this was dinner table conversation).
peace.

 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Before Carnegie, except for the tiniest of examples, libraries were for the extraordinarily pious, learned, or wealthy.
Literacy exploded as a result of books being available to basically everyone, (whites in the south?) so that all classes (theoretically) could ‘read and learn about this shit’.
...........in this country


Why do you think that is?


When I don't feed my dog for three days he's really happy to see that first treat on the 4th day.

For someone not defending carnegie you're doing a very good job defending carnegie

My dad worked at CSX, that doesn't mean I know the first thing about train operation or whether they told the truth or not.
 
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rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
23,067
11,303
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Compartmentalization.
I don’t think more than 5% of Americans even know who he is, or care about what a bastard he might have been…but there is a public library in basically every county.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Ya know how Donald Trump does 'people's rallies' and appeals the common man?

In 1912 that's what robber barons where doing, just without facebook. And without writing tripe like the Gospel of Wealth. Cept he actually ghost writes the Art of the Deal.









They do this to keep their heads and their children's heads attached to their necks.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
23,067
11,303
In the cleavage of the Tetons
I agree. You should probably read my earlier post about about 'taxing them to begin with'

What I learned from your wikipedia link is that one of the wealthiest motherfuckers in history 'fund raised' to help libraries. What a philanthropist.
You do realize that there were sound economic principles involved in this, don’t you? It’s called ‘being invested’ as opposed to just receiving charity. The libraries had to stand on their own feet, and be embraced by the community. If it had just been pure charity, they would all be long, long gone. Yet 911 out of 1500 or so still operate as libraries, through the depression, and everything.
It was one of the first long lasting examples of ‘public/Private partnerships’, and still endures.
You are out of your depth, Donny.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
23,067
11,303
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Uh-hunh.
Again, I have never defended the assholes, just admired the good works, it’s called balance.
Carnegie even insisted that no library need have his name attached.
Would it have pleased you more if his wealth purely went to his beloved dog, or whatever?
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
It was one of the first long lasting examples of ‘public/Private partnerships’, and still endures.

Like lockheed martin and ratheon!

You're old enough to remember the sierra club's stance on mountainbiking. Those wonderful public/private partnerships enduring is some of the shittiest aspects of america.

You can make all the lebowski jokes you want, but you're still missing the point. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It doesn't matter if they drop a penny in the tip jar.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
imma turn this thread into an andrew carnegie quote thread

The problem of our age is the proper administration of wealth, so that the ties of brotherhood may
still bind together the rich and poor in harmonious relationship. The conditions of human life have
not only been changed, but revolutionized, within the past few hundred years. In former days there
was little difference between the dwelling, dress, food, and environment of the chief and those of his
retainers... The contrast between the palace of the millionaire and the cottage of the laborer with us
to-day measures the change which has come with civilization.
The price we pay for this beneficial change



So slavery is beneficial and slavers are simply 'retainers' and all of that is the result of of being 'revolutionized' :rofl:
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
wait, he was a….GASP….WHITE MAN?

KILL WHITEY!
like I said.

Apologist.

Also like I said, you seem to think the minor bit of MASSIVE wealth dedicated to making other people raise money for an amenity justfies the means of how he got there.

I don't. Fuck'em. Should have taxed him and built libraries. Or just beheaded him early so I don't have to read your apologist bullshit because you think that's the only way libraries could have happened.
 
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