Well too bad N8 wasn't one of them. Of course he wasn't a "soldier" perse.....he was essentially in the "waterboy/bench warmer" branch of the military.
And they wonder why countries don't want to fight alongside the US
- Thread starter MMike
- Start date
It wasn't N8 that made the f'n hilarious joke. It was BurlyShirely.
Just aiming the invective accurately...
While N8 and I will likely someday do the Norwegian Fish Slapping Dance about something, it sure as he11 won't be about soldiers dying.
Just aiming the invective accurately...
Yep. I made a crass joke alright. When someone does it about "ragheads" for effect, no one flips out. I said "my apologies" . I didnt realize you all were so sensitive. What more would you like?
See...the thing is, I know that BS is not as dumb as he sometimes pretends to be. I recognized that what he said was a joke. Crass, as it may be, if I got all bent out of shape, then my glass house would get awfully drafty.....what with all the broken windows and all.
N8 on the other hand, ACTUALLY believes the crap he posts. He's a waste of skin, pure and simple.
Well you can start by helping get all this sand out of my vagina
And people like many of those who congregate here in the pol forum to States-Bash are the reason 75% of Americans don't give a warm piss for what most Europeans think*.
*as defined by regurgitation of biased, left-leaning sources.
Friendly-fire accidents are a regrettable though unavoidable side-effect of weapons evolution. Firing arrows from longbows into your own troops inadvertently was a cost of war weighed and accepted in order to make use of the advantages offered by missile weapons. When you don't have to stab a guy in the gut with a dagger, mistakes are sometimes made in the chaotic battlefield environment. Ever hear of a hunting accident, ye lovers of Mr. Cheney? An A-10 is infinitely more efficient a killing machine than a longbow, yet you sniveling halfwits lack the capacity to understand how a pilot could accidently kill an ally or two with one. I wonder how some of you even manage to figure out how to piss in the toilet vs. your pants when the seat's down!
...I thought "Canadian" was code for "Black person?"
Sure thing, buddy. Your country made it's own bed.
Also, you should care. The Euro is worth twice what the US dollar is and is becoming a force to be reckoned with.
Thanks for caring, being solutions-oriented over blame-assessing and not kicking us while we're down!
Sadly, though I may proclaim otherwise from time-to-time, I do care. I've spent a lot of time in Europe and met a lot of great people there which is what makes your selective memories, homogenized sense of reality and fickle friendship all the more hurtful.
I dunno, I'm no politcal animal, and I like a good joke as much as the next guy. But come on, laughing in a snied way about the, albeit accidental, killings of your allies (one of your few...) is just purely in bad taste.
It certainly gives those on the fence about all this largely popular anti-american sentiment sh!t another reason to join up on the "anti" side.
Sure, "can't make an omelette witout breaking eggs" and all that...But this was an accident, and I can accept that. But to laugh about it is that one step too far. If I were an American, I'd be pretty ashamed. It was about as far off of being "solutions oriented" as one can be. It's only hurting americans when sh!t like that gets said. Not to recognise it is even worse.
I suppose it's just a matter of time before we accidentally kill an American. We might not have fancy weapons like the U.S., but they're still reasonably lethal. It will be just as big a fcku up, and equally un-funny.
Alright, I'll lighten up now.
It certainly gives those on the fence about all this largely popular anti-american sentiment sh!t another reason to join up on the "anti" side.
Sure, "can't make an omelette witout breaking eggs" and all that...But this was an accident, and I can accept that. But to laugh about it is that one step too far. If I were an American, I'd be pretty ashamed. It was about as far off of being "solutions oriented" as one can be. It's only hurting americans when sh!t like that gets said. Not to recognise it is even worse.
I suppose it's just a matter of time before we accidentally kill an American. We might not have fancy weapons like the U.S., but they're still reasonably lethal. It will be just as big a fcku up, and equally un-funny.
Alright, I'll lighten up now.
D'oh!
and when that happens everyone will probably want to declare war on canada....
Ask N8. If he can stop giggling.
Actually, our boys have some pretty advanced shooters, looters and poopers.
We just don't have anything that can survive a Warthog's 30mm Gatling gun. Hell, who does?
I stick by what i said the first time, though. I don't joke about soldiers getting killed. I don't laugh when someone else does.
I was soldier. Maybe that's my problem. Yeah, that's it. It's all about ME. Sorry 'bout that.
As a Canadian [and, to phuck things up further, an American, too!] I don't condone the blame game vs. the pilots or the country. Either way.
It's a tragedy on two levels.
That a good guy died for nothing.
That a friend killed him accidentally.
Try to keep an eye on the big picture.
You know what, I totally misread your post. Sorry about that.
I had a bunch of Canadian dollars I needed to exchange, so I went to the currency exchange window at the local bank. Short line. Just one guy in front of me...an Asian guy who was trying to exchange yen for dollars and he was a little irritated....He asked the teller, "Why it change?? Yestoday, I get two hunat dolla fo yen. Today I get hunat eighty?? Why it change?"
The teller shrugged his shoulders and said, "Fluctuations".
The Asian guy says, "Fluc you white people too!"
The teller shrugged his shoulders and said, "Fluctuations".
The Asian guy says, "Fluc you white people too!"
Ooh, lighten up man. Death is a part of life and humor is how we deal with it. Besides you're talking about frikkin soldiers who probably have killed people, not a volontary worker i Africa who helps villages build wells, schools and agriculture. You're talking about people that chose to take weapons in their hands to go to another country and help Cheney pump the oil out of the Caspian Sea. Don't make no mother Teresa's out of them.
Civilians have died by the thousands in Afghanistan due to them solders being there. The US bombed the Red Cross's food storages several times, water depots and claening facilities, powerstations, anything they could find with no regard to Geneva Conventions and the people of Afghanistan. And when Al-Jazeera was reporting of these atrocities they lazer bombed their office that was 2? storeys up from BBC's offices. Care for them civilians and for the democratic scrutinizing that journalism is and whos being threatened here.
WORD! But it's natural, as übermench we have sertain priviligies; we get to eat, educate our selves, fulfill our dreams, steal others natural resourses, and shove what ever in their moaning throats too. Now, I'm priviliged. I am a European. But damn I wish I was an American, my hide would be worth even more. Then I would be a soldier like them in Abu Ghraib.
I don't think you went too far. You joke about everything equally and not just at ragheads.
What do you want people to do, praise the wickedness of US politics? That nation has zero tolerance on criticism, domestic and foreign. If you speak up as a US citizen you will be subject of some agressive bs from people all around you, with the effect of that many will be scared to silence. I have never seen the like in any Scandinavian country or in Greece. That very intolerance of others thoughts is why the US bombed Al-Jazeeras office.
Man, as a major user of a mind expansive substance I expect a little bit more from you. There is more to it than a feeling of well being. Pick up a subscription of High Times and read it thoroughly. You will find some new sticky flavores to some serious articles I haven't seen in any other US press.
No that is Irish, "the blacks of Europe". :biggrin:...I thought "Canadian" was code for "Black person?"
Your governments are always fvcking some country up. It is constantly commiting crimes against humanity. Why should that not be critisized and why do you say "us" about the US? It is not the fault of its citizens that the US is colonizing the world. If its citizens had anything to say in that country they would have had health insurance decades ago. There would be no people living in poverty.
Funny thing is how people critisizing US foreign policies are called "anti-Americans", but what they want is the best for its troops; to go home and live their lives.
On the other side the "patriots" are the ones that send, what they call "their own people", to die. It is the "patriots" that have gone against USA's founding fathers and its constitution, taken away the rights of the people, spying on them and keep them in uneducated uninsured misery.
But don't say that out loud cus you'll be called an anti-American and a traitor.
You were paid to loot and murder? What a contribution to humanity.
N8, that was excellent!
Congratulations, you're a friggin' idiot.
Cus I don't share the glorified view of what a soldier is? What the US is doing in Iraq right now isn't that stealing their natural resources? If Sweden was there as the US is and I would go there as a soldier what would I be if not a thief in a thieving killer in a uniform? Do I have to get busted and sentenced as one just to actualy be one or am I to be judged after my actions?Congratulations, you're a friggin' idiot.
I get your points. They are quite typical for this sort of argument.
Basically, you state that soldiers are looters, murderers and thieves. You left out rapists, by the way.
For the record, paid or not, I have never done any of the above.
However, a large part of your invective seems to be pointed to certain countries foreign policies - most of which i abhor even more than you likely do.
Atrocities have been committed by both sides of every war. I agree, war is evil.
Your sweeping generalizations don't necessarily further your arguments, however - but I'm digressing.
Firstly, most soldiers [with or without turbans, etc] do not fit your description.
Secondly, soldiers don't make foreign policy decisions.
And that's about all I've got to say to you about this subject.
Have a nice day.
What the current wars by the US and its allies are about is securing energy for continued world domination. It has nothing to do with defending their countries from an invading threat. As individuals we have a personal responsibility not to be used by, in this case, our governments.
The US is in Iraq for the sole purpose of the oil. Killing, looting and making Iraqis suffer because of its neo colonial policies. Afgahnistan was invaded for the same reason. If you as an individual chose to take part in this you are a part of the isht your government is, and therefor a murderer and a thief.
In Israel there are soldiers that refuse to serve in the palestinian territories and recently in Lebanon just because of these reasons. They can't justify an occupation of another people and their country, but have no problem with defending Israel within its borders.
I have served in Swedens conscriptional army. I would defend this countrys soverenty, to be able to make its own decicons and not having a Vichy regime put there by an occupier to suit their policies, but I would never step into Norway to try to topple them and steal their oil for my own countrys needs. I would not commit any crime of what ever sort just because I was given an order. Personal responsibility.
Sweden has/had a small special force in Afghanistan. I critisize this government for sending it there. I critisize our prime minister because he thought "a quick war in Iraq can be good for our economy". My government are opportunists who put the export income of our weapons to GB and US before the wellbeing of humans.
I refuse to be used as a tool by my government either as a soldier or as a civilian. I have no direct power for stoping my government from doing wrong to others, but I have that power over my self. No excuses can be made over what I have direct control over.
Hope you can see what I mean. I live and make misstakes just like everybody else, but when I see that I have done wrong I have to change my ways or I will continue to be a wicked person.
Niko
Gather round...
Sweatshop Union said:
God damn jungle music. That **** is not civilized.
Nobody, these lyrics just reminded me. In the fall of 2001 the Heroin prices in Stockholm were at a record high due to the Taliban regim that was sussefull in fighting it. In the spring of 2002 the prices had dropped to an alltime low due to the streets were flooded with it. Since the US coalition was controlling Afghanistan it can only mean one thing.
Nobody, these lyrics just reminded me. In the fall of 2001 the Heroin prices in Stockholm were at a record high due to the Taliban regim that was sussefull in fighting it. In the spring of 2002 the prices had dropped to an alltime low due to the streets were flooded with it. Since the US coalition was controlling Afghanistan it can only mean one thing.
I'm a user not a dealer, and I finance it by stealing hoodcaps. Recently I've been studying the 1972 movie The Mack carefully and will soon be changing buisnesses. I got me a fur, I got me a white Mercedes and I'm rouindin'up the bitches. Cops have allready been paid off, so I'm all legit.
i don't see it that way, having been to blue states, read the nytimes, watched cnn, or even read most everything in this forum. not exactly what i'd call lapdog-like praise. and as much as i'd really like dixie chicks w/ dix, jersey grrrlz, cindy sheehan, et. al., to STFD & STFU, they haven't, and that's "what makes this country great" (i hate the phrase, however true it may be)
so try wearing a mohammed t-shirt anywhere you want & see if you don't get the same fate as theo van gogh
tell me how political dissent is handled in arabic countries, most notably egypt & saudi arabia
when i first started college in the mid 80's, i was a poor & uninsured by choice. i could've got a job hangin' iron downtown making decent coin, or continue waiting tables full-time. i recognized then the long-term need for education & @ the same time i was bullit-proof [i.e. didn't need to pay for insurance that i'd most likely never use]
why do so many of the forward deployed troops see it differently? either they have what amounts to be an expert opinion, or truly are just brainwashed cannon fodder.
these are lazy opinionated labels to me; i have no use for them
I can appreciate rockwool's point of view because as a youthful burner, I once shared it. As one grows older and more experienced with the non-provincial world, perhaps marrying and starting a family, it gives you a much different perspective on things. Suffice it to say that high-minded, unrealistic idealism is much easier to pull off when others stand ready to facilitate it with their sacrifice. Rarely does the blood shed in any conflict fall from the family tree of those responsible for and benefitting from it. Politricksters and other vomitously rich shed crocodile tears for the cameras while our economically-yearing families bear the crushing burdon for their prosperity...and it's no different here than in Sweden, but for scale.
Compared to a few countries I know of that is what I see. There is always exeptions of that, surprisingly I found this forum to be the freshest example of that, but I'm talking of what I see in societys as a whole.
Egypt and Saudi are not democratic countries. I haven't heard them call them selves "the greatest democracy in the world". It is expected of the US to act acordingly. Instead every now and then the US is involved in wars, that is the very worst for humans.
If you call your self a swimmer, you better know how to swim. "Or that bitch is bound to drizound", to quote Snoop Froggy Dogg.
Man, I wasn't talking about you specificly and if you feel to need an insurance. I was talking about that your government (actualy all gvmnts) is making decisions that go against the prioritys or wills of the majority of its people. Like doubleing an already stupidly high defence budget and going to wars.
Some troops will see it differently. If they didn't "like the smell of napalm in the morning" (isn't that the colonel in Apocalypse Now) they would have chosen a job with less bang to it. The real thing must be more fun than training for it at their camps waiting for the next US interest to defend.
The troops are mislead people that risk and give their own lives for what the wicked governments of the US sends them to do. They are victims to propaganda like that the US knows what's best for all, and that US interests have the right of way over others, and such.
But they are not only victims of their enviroment, as I wrote a few posts back, as we all have a personal responsibility of our actions.
"Lazy opinionated labels"? Check mr Kegs post above as he expresses it very good.
Its a good thing to change with time and experiance, as everything else does, otherwise it will probably mean that your fears are holding you back. But I don't see what you mean by that I have a "high-minded, unrealistic idealism".
I find my self to be battling against my own slackness with standing for a few very basic and natural things, that other people and governments say they stand for but all to often just talk about while acting the opposite at the same time.
But please explain your view because I want to draw my own straw to the stack, and not let others sacrifice them selves for me.
Totally agree with the rest.
I was not singling you out with regards to that particular phrase, "high-minded, unrealistic idealism". By that I mean that sometimes the best state of being is irreconcilable with human nature, e.g. most would acknowledge in their 20's that communism would be great if we all worked together for a common good, contributing and reaping equally the rewards of our labor...but once you've worked and lived until your 30s/40s, you realize that some people- for a littany of reasons, many understandable- are just not willing or capable of pulling their fair share of the load yet still demand an equal share of the rewards. As a result, communism was a failed experiment that cost many millions of lives and foregone opportunities for advancement. If the ideal is just not compatible with the real, pragmatic compromise is often the only answer.
Your distaste for soldiers is a perfect example. It is not practical for soldiers to pick and choose which engagements they feel like participating in. It disrupts the chain of command and the very fabric or martial life. While you may not like them or appreciate their sacrifice, soldiers protect you and your manner of existence. They set aside for the common good a portion of their personal freedom and submit themselves to governance that stands to place them in harm's way. By and large, they are not evil or brutal or anything less than honorable, but because they follow the mandates of their political masters, they are denegrated. In short, if you dislike what soldiers do, place the blame where it deserves to be placed- squarely on the shoulders of the swine we elect to political office, and ultimately, ourselves as citizens of the society electing them.
Amen.
Although, there is some debate as to whether or not the current head swine was elected legitimately.
Assuming you're talking about merely serving in a war, I'd agree with that. It's not the fault of the grunt who happens to be in Iraq that he is there.
That in no way excuses immoral behavior on the part of individual soldiers, however. Merely enlisting doesn't mean that you have to check your humanity at the door.
True enough. I've seen Three Kings, Apocolypse Now, Platoon and Glory in the last couple weeks for the umpteenth time each and regardless of the debatable merits of each, they always get me thinking.
Me-oh-my-oh...word:
I'd beg my wife for a one-night pass
at an outside shot to tap that a$$!
A confectioner could not with his life in the balance create anything so sweet as she.
Friendly fire occurs in all wars. It is another tragedy that comes along with it. It Vietnam troops would routinely get burnt by the White Phosphorus the pilots dropped a little too close. It sucks and from what I have heard 2 friends have been back a little over a year the first 1 spent almost 3 there! Early on the was alot of confusion into where specific patrols were exactly located. Hope it is fixed our other firend is still there it will be good when he is back...........