[kidwoo]

geez..how old ARE you?

Not too much older than you. But it's quite possible I grew up with more firearms being thrown at me to play with at a young age than most people. You should see the safe I'm going to inherit. Maybe I'll give it to you if you promise not to move within 200 miles of me.


I got your post, which is why I jumped on you. That's for not recognizing hyberbole. The fact that you aknowledge it's big appeal is that it looks tough even furthers my point. It's not always about true home safety now is it? Any firearm pointed at potential intruder/enemy/freedom hater/liberal voter whatever you want to call them will have the same effect. It's the ownership of the thing that creates the aura that sells rifles that serve very little real purpose domestically.

I think I know what you're going to answer but what makes your job easier? More or fewer firearms in the hands of the public? What about that link I posted up earlier about ANOTHER busted militia of white guys planning to kill government officials....including cops, all with a cache of the kinds of weapons most people get pissed about? Honestly man, how does that stuff sit with you?

 

[KavuRider]

I'll give you a hint: if you need 20 rounds to take down a deer or a home intruder, you probably shouldn't own a firearm.

+Rep
I have friends who own AR-15's. Why? Because they think they are cool. I've even fired one before. It was fun.

But for "home defense"? Give me a break...

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Take the CA firearm rules.

10 round mags - kinda of annoying at the range but you get use to it.
...

Prelude: The NRA sucks goat balls.

A few of us might just happen to have weapons that are designed for, say, 15 round magazines. Might even keep 'em loaded with only 10 or 11 so as not to fatigue the follower spring.

Magazine size limitations are arbitrary and capricious.

Required training, certification and background checks for both possession and concealed carry for any kind of firearm are not half bad ideas - I'd prefer that on a national level to a pastiche of laws that require me to pay permit fees in more than one state and require me to clean out my car and check my pockets when I cross the lake to New York State.

 

[kidwoo]

+Rep
I have friends who own AR-15's. Why? Because they think they are cool. I've even fired one before. It was fun.

But for "home defense"? Give me a break...

Shooting things is fun as shlt. I actually talked a guy I was out on a ski trip with into taking his 30-0 something and shooting slopes with it to try and set of avalanches. It was too windy to see but it would have been would have been pretty damn comical.

But 'fun' is not a reason to own an assault rifle of any kind in my opinion and that's the big reason why I don't. "Fun" is the real reason most of the NRA advocates really like guns. Fun and neat when it comes to a nitro loaded lawnmower to race around the neighborhood with other responsible lawnmower advocates is one thing. But those don't put bullets through people and they sure as hell don't form the cache of crap that gangs (whoops, I mean white militia freaks) tend to always have.

 

[TKCastle]

This is like hanging out in a gun shop with a starbucks inside. BS from all angles.

Magazine loading tips, Why do you need 100rd drums for deer hunting and "I shot more guns then you" pissing contest.


LOVE IT!

 

[KavuRider]

Shooting things is fun as shlt. I actually talked a guy I was out on a ski trip with into taking his 30-0 something and shooting slopes with it to try and set of avalanches. It was too windy to see but it would have been would have been pretty damn comical.

But 'fun' is not a reason to own an assault rifle of any kind in my opinion and that's the big reason why I don't. "Fun" is the real reason most of the NRA advocates really like guns. Fun and neat when it comes to a nitro loaded lawnmower to race around the neighborhood with other responsible lawnmower advocates is one thing. But those don't put bullets through people and they sure as hell don't form the cache of crap that gangs (whoops, I mean white militia freaks) tend to always have.

Agreed.
And that's why I don't have one either.

 

[X3pilot]

Issue every American a gun. Let's sling it out like the wild wild west.

Regulators, MOUNT UP.



Sorry, thought tis was the Nate Dogg thread...

 

[dante]

So the Arizona tragedy didn't really hammer home the difference between a bolt action and a magazine-fed semi-auto of equal (or even lesser) caliber?

I'll give you a hint: if you need 20 rounds to take down a deer or a home intruder, you probably shouldn't own a firearm.

I don't need 20 rounds to take down a deer or a home intruder. I need 20 rounds to take down 20 intruders. Zombies don't travel alone, they travel in packs...

 

[Silver]

I think I know what you're going to answer but what makes your job easier? More or fewer firearms in the hands of the public? What about that link I posted up earlier about ANOTHER busted militia of white guys planning to kill government officials....including cops, all with a cache of the kinds of weapons most people get pissed about? Honestly man, how does that stuff sit with you?

A slightly misguided group of God-fearing American Patriots is nothing to get worried about when you realize there are liberals like me out there.

You have to prioritize threats, y'know?

 

[LukeD]

I have my Class A unrestricted LTC (license to carry...concealed) and am joining the NRA asap. it is very tough in the state I come from to get the license I have... it should be tough everywhere.. but it should be available. it's not the people who go about getting a gun legally who are the issue. even if you restrict guns and not allow people to own them in the US, they will come into this country. there's a HUGE amount of guns being brought into this country illegally. the same people who want to get rid of guns want to open the borders and help illegal immigration.... go figure.

The reasoning behind the NRA not wanting to sit down with Obama is because he's very anti-gun and does not listen... Clinton is anti-gun and won't listen. The gun issue is a burocratic (sp) nightmare.

 

[manimal]

Prelude: The NRA sucks goat balls.

A few of us might just happen to have weapons that are designed for, say, 15 round magazines. Might even keep 'em loaded with only 10 or 11 so as not to fatigue the follower spring.

Magazine size limitations are arbitrary and capricious.

Required training, certification and background checks for both possession and concealed carry for any kind of firearm are not half bad ideas - I'd prefer that on a national level to a pastiche of laws that require me to pay permit fees in more than one state and require me to clean out my car and check my pockets when I cross the lake to New York State.

 

[manimal]

I think I know what you're going to answer but what makes your job easier? More or fewer firearms in the hands of the public? What about that link I posted up earlier about ANOTHER busted militia of white guys planning to kill government officials....including cops, all with a cache of the kinds of weapons most people get pissed about? Honestly man, how does that stuff sit with you?

that's a fair question so i'll answer without sarcasm. this has been the worst start to a year for law enforcement in regards to cops being feloniously killed and the trend in ambushes is disturbing. with that in mind, my personal gut reaction to misguided sovereign citizen militias going after cops is..bring it on. but as a firearms instructor who is desperately trying to correct decades of bad habits caused by timid policy from liability-afraid agencies that are scared to death to allow realistic training and admit that winning a gunfight/ambush requires swift,violent, and aggressive action...it scares me to know that many officers are grossly unprepared to take the fight to a well prepared adversary.
but do i feel that gun control(in the form of reducing the number of weapons or the use of flash suppressors) will solve the problem? absolutely not. do i believe that everyone should conceal carry who isn't a felon? absolutely not..heck, i know some cops who don't have the motor skills to handle a knife, let alone a gun. the problem with the traditional argument is that it's focused on how dangerous the weapons appear when, in reality, a $200 shotgun from walmart can do more damage. going against armed assailants is part of the job and we all know that..some don't train like they know that but we all know it regardless. i propose something similar to what JBP stated...background check + efficient training = prerequisite for gun ownership but arguing over crap like magazine capacity is irrelevant.

i think you guys have mislabeled me as a gun nut..which i am not (i own 2 rifles and 2 pistols -both pistols are used exclusively for off-duty carry..nothing fancy). i am a shooter by necessity and talent, not a gun collector, but i'll fight for my right to carry a firearm for protection even if i change careers.

i'll probably edit the structure of this post in the morning as i'm sure it's rather disjointed...been going for nearly 21 hours straight today and i can't keep my thoughts focused

 

[Pesqueeb]

this has been the worst start to a year for law enforcement in regards to cops being feloniously killed and the trend in ambushes is disturbing. with that in mind, my personal gut reaction to misguided sovereign citizen militias going after cops is..bring it on.

 

[sanjuro]

I have my Class A unrestricted LTC (license to carry...concealed) and am joining the NRA asap. it is very tough in the state I come from to get the license I have... it should be tough everywhere.. but it should be available. it's not the people who go about getting a gun legally who are the issue. even if you restrict guns and not allow people to own them in the US, they will come into this country. there's a HUGE amount of guns being brought into this country illegally. the same people who want to get rid of guns want to open the borders and help illegal immigration.... go figure.

The reasoning behind the NRA not wanting to sit down with Obama is because he's very anti-gun and does not listen... Clinton is anti-gun and won't listen. The gun issue is a burocratic (sp) nightmare.

Can you show me an example of how Obama is anti-gun?

 

[kidwoo]

I'm not sure your neighborhood would be behind the 'bring it on' stuff but whatever. I appreciate the answer.

This is twice now you've brought up easy purchase at walmart. That's the NRA. NO ONE believes that guns will go away at this point if they were outlawed. But basically handing them to people is something entirely different........that's what the NRA has and continues to try to accomplish. They've made it so that if you don't vocally do their dance of all guns all the time always available everywhere, that you're some sort of communist who wants to take people's rights away. I've got several friends who hunt and are very well adjusted people who like eating game. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever. But what the NRA has done in creating the motif that firearms of any type are a necessary part of our 'freedom' is just straight up fvcking stupidity. If anything I'd say they've made it much more difficult to differentiate responsible from idiot owners. And it doesn't help that most of their most audible supporters can't even type out the english language coherently. Just see this thread for examples of that.

My problem isn't guns. It's how the NRA and their ilk have made it so easy for assholes to get them........and gives them pamphlets for the vocabulary to sound like the morons they are. Me calling people rednecks for owning .50 caliber chihuahua exploders is just me making fun of them. You're used to that by now

 

[DaveW]

Can you show me an example of how Obama is anti-gun?

Wait, are you talking actual facts, or just talking points?

 

[dante]

Can you show me an example of how Obama is anti-gun?

Or how about some facts behind this?

there's a HUGE amount of guns being brought into this country illegally.

Because I've always heard that:

1) The VAST majority of guns used in crimes were manufactured and purchased legally at some point in their existence (before being sold by the straw buyer, or stolen from someone's house, etc).

2) We are exporting illegal guns, not importing them.

 

[Westy]

What the hell is an illegal gun anyway? Unless you are a felon in most states the only way to have an "illegal gun" is to conceal it or use it in a crime.

 

[jonKranked]

illegal gun = a gun bought from the trunk of a car in a dark alley.

 

[binary visions]

If anything I'd say they've made it much more difficult to differentiate responsible from idiot owners.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, and in that they fit right in with the large, vocal piece of the right-wing who has set up the "with us or against us" mentality. When the whole world is painted black and white, it's really hard to tell where people sit on their respective side.

The consequence is that it isn't just the NRA that's unwilling to meet somewhere in the middle. Heck, I'm guilty of this even though I recognize the problem - my knee-jerk label of anyone who owns a firearm is a gun-toting redneck. It just isn't true - I used to belong to a competitive gun club myself.

In that, it probably makes them even more effective. Few moderate democrats are willing to step up against the issue because all gun control is so broadly painted as anti-Freedom(tm), and the far left-wing liberals who want extreme control measures certainly aren't going to get any traction.

.50 caliber chihuahua exploders

+rep.

 

[Westy]

illegal gun = a gun bought from the trunk of a car in a dark alley.

That is called a gun show.

 

[binary visions]

illegal gun = a gun bought from the trunk of a car in a dark alley.

Is that what the republican senators are calling what they do in dark alleys? "Buying a gun"?

 

[jonKranked]

Is that what the republican senators are calling what they do in dark alleys? "Buying a gun"?

idk, but that's how i get my guns in GTA.

 

[Pesqueeb]

This is twice now you've brought up easy purchase at walmart. That's the NRA. NO ONE believes that guns will go away at this point if they were outlawed. But basically handing them to people is something entirely different........that's what the NRA has and continues to try to accomplish. They've made it so that if you don't vocally do their dance of all guns all the time always available everywhere, that you're some sort of communist who wants to take people's rights away. I've got several friends who hunt and are very well adjusted people who like eating game. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever. But what the NRA has done in creating the motif that firearms of any type are a necessary part of our 'freedom' is just straight up fvcking retarded. If anything I'd say they've made it much more difficult to differentiate responsible from idiot owners. And it doesn't help that most of their most audible supporters can't even type out the english language coherently. Just see this thread for examples of that.

I own several guns, and I will never give money or support to the NRA. Near as I can tell they are an organization of jingoistic, fragile ego'd, limp dicks with a very tenuous hold on reality. Most of the NRA literature I stumble across at work quite frankly makes me embarrassed to admit that I own guns. If this was an organization that really wanted to have an adult conversation, they would drop the hyperbole and the fear mongering and start talking to people about real regulation.

 

[ohio]

The reasoning behind the NRA not wanting to sit down with Obama is because he's very anti-gun and does not listen... Clinton is anti-gun and won't listen. The gun issue is a burocratic (sp) nightmare.

As quoted by a few others, show me. Obama hasn't even touched guns until his letter to Arizona, in which he stated he has no desire to pursue legislation, just improve enforcement and efficiency of existing laws.

i think you guys have mislabeled me as a gun nut..

No, you're not a gun nut, but you seem unwilling to acknowledge that they exist and constitute a large minority if not majority of gun owners. If you weren't different than the norm, you wouldn't be on this forum nor arguing such a moderate stance. If a Democratic Rep echoed your view above, they'd be torn to pieces by the NRA. In fact, reading this thread, I'm not finding a practical difference in view between you, JBP, woo, Pesqueeb and myself - guns can be important tools, should be trackable, and should require training and cert to purchase, and should have a tiered licensing system... like cars. Now convince the NRA of the same.

I own several guns, and I will never give money or support to the NRA. Near as I can tell they are an organization of jingoistic, fragile ego'd, limp dicks with a very tenuous hold on reality. Most of the NRA literature I stumble across at work quite frankly makes me embarrassed to admit that I own guns. If this was an organization that really wanted to have an adult conversation, they would drop the hyperbole and the fear mongering and start talking to people about real regulation.

Must spread rep.

 

[Westy]

I own two handguns. I think shooting is fun. I passed a lot of time at the range during the winter when I lived in Cincinnati. I support licensing and registration of guns and would have no problem doing it, I have nothing to hide. Most everyone else I know who owns guns is so incredibly infatuated with them and is pretty much bat **** crazy. I stopped shooting because I didn't want to be around a bunch of crazy old dudes who were constantly fantasizing about fighting through the downfall of humanity like some pimply nerd with a replica samurai sword acting out their dungeons and dragons fantasies in their basement.

 

[narlus]

+Rep
I have friends who own AR-15's. Why? Because they think they are cool. I've even fired one before. It was fun.

But for "home defense"? Give me a break...

they look pretty stylish, too

 

[kidwoo]

In fact, reading this thread, I'm not finding a practical difference in view between you, JBP, woo, Pesqueeb and myself

I agree except for the fact that he seems to think the NRA is a wholly good thing and that it's somehow necessary to support them to keep firearms legal at all.

 

[sanjuro]

PS, the response from the NRA about not meeting with Obama:

In a recent editorial, The New York Times called the National Rifle Association’s refusal to meet with President Barack Obama on gun control shameful, and said the decision “shows disdain for the well-being and safety of the public.”

The Times has never been shy about its contempt for gun owners and Second Amendment freedom; however, the Times owes an apology to New Yorkers for refusing to promote a common-sense program that has been very successful in preventing violent crime.

Project Exile, a federal program supported by NRA members, encourages local law enforcement to work alongside federal officers to prosecute violent felons (who use guns in the commission of their crimes) and locks them away for a stiff, mandatory minimum sentence of five years.

In just three years (1997-2000), Project Exile cut Richmond, Va.’s gun crime in half, and since then, other cities have had similar success with the program, including Buffalo, N.Y.

Unfortunately, New York City has never adopted a Project Exile program, and The New York Times hasn’t acknowledged Project Exile in nearly a decade. Why has the Times refused to push for the immediate implementation of this program in New York City?

Maybe it’s because the Times only likes to highlight successful crime prevention policies when there’s an anti-gun president in the White House. Or maybe it’s because the Times couldn’t be less interested in an issue that doesn’t provide a platform for bashing NRA members and law-abiding gun owners.

The Times would much rather waste ink praising the anti-gun efforts of New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who spends most of his energy trying to restrict the rights of gun owners in other states while ignoring the failure of his own city’s efforts to reduce crime.

If the Times' editorial staff is truly interested in uniting its readers and NRA members toward the common goal of greater safety and reduced crime, then it should consider promoting successful crime prevention policies on which most Americans can agree — even when those policies don’t appear on Bloomberg’s or Obama’s talking points memos. New Yorkers would be better informed and substantially safer too.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/nra-secondamendment-newyorktines-nationalrifleassociation/2011/03/20/id/390122