Angleset problem
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Syndicate use the new flush Chris King Reducer headset, just like last season
So why does the public think this frame needs to be slacker? The Angleset is perfect for many older DH and newer trailbike frames that could be slacker but including them on new, top-o-the-line DH frames seems weird. Shouldn't the M9 and V10 have perfect geo stock (the Syndicate thinks they do)?
Come on, you should know better that you can't win any "my bike is the slackest" contests on the internetz with a stock HA. If Cane Creek would figure out a way to make a -10° headset people would put it on their bikes! 55° HA for a trail bike is sooooooo cool!
I have one arriving soon. After reading all this, I'm confident that this will be the most stressful wrenching I've done.
I've seen the CC and PB tutorials. I think I'm gonna follow the CC recommendations.
I guess with the gimbles, the preload has to be cranked down a bit more than traditional threadless headsets to prevent this "clicking" (movement) that most are experiencing. ???
I've seen the CC and PB tutorials. I think I'm gonna follow the CC recommendations.
I guess with the gimbles, the preload has to be cranked down a bit more than traditional threadless headsets to prevent this "clicking" (movement) that most are experiencing. ???
the PB how-to is by a Cane Creek person but differs from the YT video because in the article they want you to fully seat the top assembly first before the bottom. in the YT video, they want you to push everything together at the same time.
my preload is super tight and yet it still does it. im not sure if its the gimbal itself or the bearing floating around in the gimbal.
Thanks!!! I'll give it a shot and see what happens. I think I will incorporate a second person for this one to hold everything together while one snugs everything up.
my sunday went from a 65 to 63.5, and the difference was instantly noticeable. I don't know if it's the placebo effect (don't think so) but it feels like it wants to rip through turns. Plattekill isn't known for their buffed out trails, so I think it'll be even more noticeable at a place like highland or elsewhere, where the majority of turns aren't 90* hard on the brakes...Come on, you should know better that you can't win any "my bike is the slackest" contests on the internetz with a stock HA. If Cane Creek would figure out a way to make a -10° headset people would put it on their bikes! 55° HA for a trail bike is sooooooo cool!
did you figure out what that clicking was in your headset?
not yet. I haven't had time to take it apart and properly analyze. I'll probably loosen the crown, disassemble the gimbals, then reinstall it. It seemed to go away after inverting the frame, which makes me think it has something to do with the fork itself instead of the set. I had it all apart until a week ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if something wasn't seated right. I'd bet it all goes away quickly.
Where?
Well if the gimbal is clicking, i'd put it there.
It's worth a shot maybe, but I can't see it helping long term. I slather a healthy bit of grease on the gimbals like they suggest, but when I remove everything, it's like I never touched them... Things compress pretty tightly, squeezing all the grease out.
I suppose you'd have to apply the tape pretty carefully to prevent wrinkles, and white teflon tape doesn't exactly like to stay in place...
One of the things that should be noted about the "pop" I was getting is it's hard to pinpoint. It's a really heavy sound, like a large clunk, but muted. I thought there was something else going on with my bike until I reverted back to the standard reducer headset. (Which made the bike silent again.)
I was riding yesterday smugly thinking that I'm somehow a better wrench than my friend (whose angleset has also been creaking) when alas my bike said, "creak creak". My new bike has been soft spoken so far so I was a little taken aback. Bummer. I guess we'll have to add another XL carbon V10 and a Knolly to the list of bikes with this problem.
Oh yeah, an endo doesn't mean that you go over the bars. It just means you lift your back wheel with your front wheel stopped. Sorry, I'm an ex-flatlander so I couldn't help myself.
Oh yeah, an endo doesn't mean that you go over the bars. It just means you lift your back wheel with your front wheel stopped. Sorry, I'm an ex-flatlander so I couldn't help myself.
weird me too lol I can do a pedal squeaker on my DH bike. pretty funny...
Heres a joke...
"knock knock"
"whos there?"
"angleset"
Heres a joke...
"knock knock"
"whos there?"
"angleset"
after watching the vid,again,they tighten it ALLOT more then I even did mine.
im bummed i missed placing a new headset on our QBP order for this week 
i unfortunately have to deal with this thing for another weekend of riding.
i tried installing it like the PB article talked about....installing the top gimbal setup first, then the bottom. that turned out to be worse then installing both gimbal setups in unison. a simple parking lot test was all that was needed to here that "pop."
awesome product
i unfortunately have to deal with this thing for another weekend of riding.
i tried installing it like the PB article talked about....installing the top gimbal setup first, then the bottom. that turned out to be worse then installing both gimbal setups in unison. a simple parking lot test was all that was needed to here that "pop."
awesome product
did you watch the cane creek one I posted.im bummed i missed placing a new headset on our QBP order for this week
i unfortunately have to deal with this thing for another weekend of riding.
i tried installing it like the PB article talked about....installing the top gimbal setup first, then the bottom. that turned out to be worse then installing both gimbal setups in unison. a simple parking lot test was all that was needed to here that "pop."
awesome product
How tight is your top cap,wat kinda grease are you using.
Someone get micrometers out and lets get cracking.
Makes no sense how some peoples stuff works and others dont.
Sometimes you have to think beyond the instructions that the marketing department put together.
Grease is not the correct product for this type of application...there are no constantly moving/rotating items that need cooling and lubrication.
You are trying to prevent galling and corrosion that is likely to occur between parts such as the cup and gimble. This is EXACTLY what anti-seize is made for.
Grease is not the correct product for this type of application...there are no constantly moving/rotating items that need cooling and lubrication.
You are trying to prevent galling and corrosion that is likely to occur between parts such as the cup and gimble. This is EXACTLY what anti-seize is made for.
yes, ive referred to the video several times. so yes, ive seen it
very tight. slick honey and pw grease.
yes we get it. you dont have a problem
grease is what they recommend on all their points of info... i dont see how anti seize would prevent the gimbals from moving around (which i think is the problem)
This is really annoying; I, and others who are having this problem, are well qualified wrenches, we are following instructions to a T, I would cede little to any other mechanics skill, and DEFNITELY not when it comes to installing a headset.
I can prep a frame with tools most have never seen, yet I am somehow doing something wrong here? This is not someting that should be difficult, yet the issue persists.
Where is CC with some feedback? Get on these forums and prove me wrong before I besmirch your brand and 'get a real headset'.
...
I can prep a frame with tools most have never seen, yet I am somehow doing something wrong here? This is not someting that should be difficult, yet the issue persists.
Where is CC with some feedback? Get on these forums and prove me wrong before I besmirch your brand and 'get a real headset'.
...
I was just about to suggest anti-seize as well. I find it helps if I have a clicky bar/stem interface. Seems a little 'grittier' than grease which may or may not help reduce movement? Can't hurt to give it a go if you have some lying around.
Or perhaps load up the contact surfaces with Loctite 680?
Or perhaps load up the contact surfaces with Loctite 680?
So, picked up my Angleset over my weekend and had it installed by Duke @ Drop n Zone in Bellingham. He must of done a hell of a job because I hammered it on a few laps of the Galbraith trails in Bellingham on Wednesday and have nothing to report but how much I love my frame now that it's 1.5 degrees slacker.
You guys are doing it wrong
You guys are doing it wrong
Try some good anti-seize, something designed for aluminum...
There is a motivation from a mfg standpoint to make assembly/maintenance on any mechanical product appear as simple as possible as a selling point. Anything out of the ordinary or 'exotic' is taboo in these type of sales docs.
In the bike biz, with a VAST majority of users being new to the idea of general mechanical aptitude, tools, chemicals/lubricants, service intervals, etc something as exotic as anti-seize might scare away potential customers.
Every bolt, bb spindle, bb cup, axle, race, dissimilar metal contact, essentially every metal to metal interface that is NOT a bearing or bushing should use anti-seize or the proper loctite product. Grease is never the proper product although it is easier and 'better than nothing'
It would be very difficult to prevent the movement...and obviously that is not the idea behind the grease that everyone is using.IH8Rice said:
If you want to stop all movement (not designed or recommended) then use some high strength cylindrical adhesive. You will want to make sure everything is 100% clean and aligned before the product sets, and you will most likely not get the parts apart again.
The noise you hear IS the gimbles moving. They catch/hang due to surface anomalies/corrosion/galling and then move violently when the lateral force overcomes the surface friction (think earthquake). The intent is that grease will prevent this, but it does not.
Grease is nothing more than oil(that provides the lubrication) in a thickening agent (think corn starch) to prevent it from running out of the application. It is designed for systems that have repetitive, relatively large and high speed motion with relatively large voids/areas for new fresh grease to provide a constant oil film to the moving parts. Rolling parts are the target.
Anti-seize is a very thick grease carrier, but it is not designed to lubricate moving (other than very small scale sliding) parts. Its key is microscopic metallic (and other) particles in the base/carrier that provide isolation and insulation (depending on the base materials) between the two contacting/friction parts (think sintered lead, or graphite). High pressure sliding is what anti-seize is engineered for.
You are not wanting to lubricate the parts in the traditional sense... you want to prevent metal to metal contact that will result in galling and corrosion.
ill try anti-seize tonight, but i honestly doubt that will work....especially since some have had good luck with just using grease. the problem is trying to get the gimbal setups to seat properly. every time i install the upper assembly, the top gimbal sits at a different height and angle...every time.
id like to just remove the top setup(cup,bearing,compression ring,gimbal) now and replace it with a Hope reducer headset i have lying around but thats probably not a good idea i suppose.
id like to just remove the top setup(cup,bearing,compression ring,gimbal) now and replace it with a Hope reducer headset i have lying around but thats probably not a good idea i suppose.
Sounds like the problems (and perfect setups) are the result of manufacturing tolerances in the gimbals.
I have a crazy idea for you, give CC's customer service line a call!
I can deff understand that point of frustration.I delt with it being a mechanic and a assembler for a high performance valve compagny....not that you care lol.
Seriously,someone get a vernier out,mesure your stuff,I'll mesure mine.
For real,p.s.s I too am a little bummed on CC,like none of you even got "send it in well send you a nother and try that" ?!?!??
I have. I already posted about it.
So has anyone tried the anti sieze with good results? I wonder if retaining compound would be better?
I installed mine as directed but haven't had a chance to ride it yet. It went together well and looks right but I expect issues based on everyone's experience. The retaining or anti sieze compound makes perfect sense to me. If I have time I may just pull it apart and guinea pig it. I read on another forum that retaining com has a bit more holding force and possibly permanent without heating. I don't want to get into that mess and possibly ruin my gimbles.
After bouncing this off a machinist he said to try the anti sieze first due to the space filling properties that it won't be as slippery and may hold the pieces from sliding against one another. I'll report back my finding later this week.
I installed mine as directed but haven't had a chance to ride it yet. It went together well and looks right but I expect issues based on everyone's experience. The retaining or anti sieze compound makes perfect sense to me. If I have time I may just pull it apart and guinea pig it. I read on another forum that retaining com has a bit more holding force and possibly permanent without heating. I don't want to get into that mess and possibly ruin my gimbles.
After bouncing this off a machinist he said to try the anti sieze first due to the space filling properties that it won't be as slippery and may hold the pieces from sliding against one another. I'll report back my finding later this week.
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i found my solution:
Haha!! New headset solution? I have one of those too in case this doesn't work out.
I've got me some anti-seize -- Have been using it on VPP1 lower links for some time, and plenty left. I feel the issue, like IH8Rice points out, is the difficulty in setting the gimbals properly, I dont think it's a tolerance issue, but rather difficulty in getting them to really line up and seat themselve accordingly. this is why I think grease makes sense as it will ideally 'guide' the gimbals to their final destination.
Nonetheless, I do see the logic in using anti-seize, and I will try it. (Go Permatex!)
Also, I ordered a new headset.
Per the 'call CC' - yes, I did, and I got essentially - "You're doing it wrong" -- and that doesn't cut the mustard.
Per the 'call CC' - yes, I did, and I got essentially - "You're doing it wrong" -- and that doesn't cut the mustard.