No noise out of mine yet with 2 days at diablo but I don't really notice things like that. J Used lots of lube.
Try turning up the radio. That usually helps with noise.
Try turning up the radio. That usually helps with noise.
Angleset problem
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Thats what I did and it went right in, no problems.
That's all it takes.Thats what I did and it went right in, no problems.
No, not really.
just want to post that readjusting the gimbals and tightening everything down seems to have fixed my problem, at least for the time being. Two shuttle runs is hardly a full day of DH, but so far so good (no click).
nail the brakes, hit a drop, repeat - return with feedback. Gobs o grease and anti-seize and no luck (luck should have nada to do with it, 50/50 issue for all Ive heard from so far - not good)
I never had the clunking issue though, mine was a click from lock to lock. It almost looks like my upper cup may be slightly off from center, but I need to get a day on it before I reset it.
I'm a bit surprised anti-seize didn't fix it though, but I'm not certain that it's a gimbal problem vs. something more creepy.
I'm a bit surprised anti-seize didn't fix it though, but I'm not certain that it's a gimbal problem vs. something more creepy.
I've had 15+ hours on mine which is -1.5 on an 08 Sunday. With all the power of internet suggestion, I thought I "might" be hearing something so I tightened the star nut down a fair bit and I am sure it is silent. I ride Highland with plenty of drops and a mix of everything else and will say I am very happy with it. I had a local shop install it; and although they had never done one before, I warned them of the supposed issues and I've had none so far.
What angle are you running? What axle-to-headtube height are you running your forks at?
I'm running the -1 cups. Not sure on the axle to HT measurement. I know that I can go about 10mm lower with the crowns to be at the lowest setting.
I havent had any issue with mine, it has been going strong since early dec on a 2011 demo 8. I installed it in the -1.5 setting and i have switched crowns a fair few times and it ha never troubled me once. In fact its the only part on the bike that has been rock solid. I installed it according to the instructions.
Could the problem possible be in difference in headtube lengths? Seems like frames with shorther headtubes are trouble free, i havent kept to close attention to this tread to back the statement but still seems like a source to check. Especially since normal angled cups are sensitive to headtube lengths. And i know CC claims that the angle set is not headtube length dependent.
Could the problem possible be in difference in headtube lengths? Seems like frames with shorther headtubes are trouble free, i havent kept to close attention to this tread to back the statement but still seems like a source to check. Especially since normal angled cups are sensitive to headtube lengths. And i know CC claims that the angle set is not headtube length dependent.
i could care less about trying to get it to work now honestly....ive tried it all now.
itll be going on my new AM bike once i order a new upper assembly to fit that bike.
itll be going on my new AM bike once i order a new upper assembly to fit that bike.
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They are a pain to setup took my shop and I about seven or eight installs to get the gimbals seated right. Kind of a pain, I am not changing the headset till it breaks
thats another reason why i dont feel like dealing with it anymore.
when i clean my bike, i take everything off to clean, including the fork (especially with the M9 since the HT has a slit in it for the headset cup and it allows water to get into the HT and onto the lower bearing.) i dont want to be trying to seat the gimbals 10x every time i clean my bike.
plus, how do you know that the gimbals are seated right besides by testing it out??
I prefer Macy's
so it seems the bearings seem to be the culprit in my situation...not the gimbals.
you can see where the bearing galled up the gimbal despite using anti-seize and thick grease.
i installed CC's new series 40 flush reducer headset today too. its interesting to see that they have the compression ring attached to the preload cap now. no problems now
the new series 40 feels a lot cheaper then their previous XXC II flush headset unfortunately. the price reflects the cheaper quality feeling as well.
you can see where the bearing galled up the gimbal despite using anti-seize and thick grease.
i installed CC's new series 40 flush reducer headset today too. its interesting to see that they have the compression ring attached to the preload cap now. no problems now
the new series 40 feels a lot cheaper then their previous XXC II flush headset unfortunately. the price reflects the cheaper quality feeling as well.
Hmm, that's what my Angleset does too...so it seems the bearings seem to be the culprit in my situation...not the gimbals.
you can see where the bearing galled up the gimbal despite using anti-seize and thick grease.
I don't have any marking, but you probably used yours much longer. I'm having thoughts of trying the anti-seize method as I suggested it to a guy on his M9. He's got zero noise/popping so far...so it seems the bearings seem to be the culprit in my situation...not the gimbals.
you can see where the bearing galled up the gimbal despite using anti-seize and thick grease.
Just not sure if it's worth my time now.
yeah, ive been riding it since November but i dont remember having issues with it during the first few rides. it sat for a few months during the winter and it started after i re-assembled the bike after a cleaning. i guess i got super lucky during the first build.I don't have any marking, but you probably used yours much longer. I'm having thoughts of trying the anti-seize method as I suggested it to a guy on his M9. He's got zero noise/popping so far...
Just not sure if it's worth my time now.
it honestly took less time putting a new headset in then it would to try installing the gimbals multiple times. thankfully CC uses pretty much the same crown race for all their headsets so i didnt have to remove that.
I'm going to be the village idiot and ask this question I'm sure I know the answer to...
Has anyone played around with running one of the offset cups on the bottom in combination with an offset cup on the top?
Here's why I ask.. I have a Sunday that comes stock with a 65* headangle. I popped my AngleSet in with the 1.5* top cup and 0* lower cup. It seems that the headangle still feels rather steep at times in comparison to my old 2010 Demo 8 II although they should be the same(I know wheelbase and top tube length differences...)
I would like to try to slack it out a touch more if I could. I haven't had any issues with clicking, clacking, popping or anything of the sort. Do you think it might work?
Has anyone played around with running one of the offset cups on the bottom in combination with an offset cup on the top?
Here's why I ask.. I have a Sunday that comes stock with a 65* headangle. I popped my AngleSet in with the 1.5* top cup and 0* lower cup. It seems that the headangle still feels rather steep at times in comparison to my old 2010 Demo 8 II although they should be the same(I know wheelbase and top tube length differences...)
I would like to try to slack it out a touch more if I could. I haven't had any issues with clicking, clacking, popping or anything of the sort. Do you think it might work?
Try the 1.5* in the bottom cup and the 0* in the upper and see if that solves your problem.
I had a short thread discussing this notion. The conclusion was it should work, though the top and bottom cups are pretty different. I haven't tried it yet, but one fella did with some success. I think CC actually suggests you can run the system inverted on certain bikes, so it sounds like it should be fine.
I know in the CC installation video where he uses the M9 he says that on "this bike" we will be using the 0* lower cup and offset top cup, but never touches on why it might be different on other bikes. The paper instructions that come with the headset seem to be ****e for explaining it as well.
I blew up my Boxxer Team this last weekend so while I'm mounting my WC, I'll play with swapping cups around I suppose.
give it a shot and report back. There was something that suggested you could run the system inverted, whether on the paper instructions or in the video or the pinkbike explanation. Somewhere I could have sworn it said "Most bikes will use the angled cup on top"...
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241841&highlight=science+incredible
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241841&highlight=science+incredible
I need to check my bearing for the galling issue.
Regarding running the offset cup on the bottom, Im thinking there is an additional adjustability introduced. When using the offset cup on top, it moves the bars/cockpit back, shrinking valuable cockpit space for some. If the offset cup is used on the bottom, the shift would effect the cockpit less, and have the reverse effect on wheelbase (Eg instead of tightening the cockpit by .25-.5" it would lengthen the wb to some similar degree.
Comments? Too little oxygen??
Regarding running the offset cup on the bottom, Im thinking there is an additional adjustability introduced. When using the offset cup on top, it moves the bars/cockpit back, shrinking valuable cockpit space for some. If the offset cup is used on the bottom, the shift would effect the cockpit less, and have the reverse effect on wheelbase (Eg instead of tightening the cockpit by .25-.5" it would lengthen the wb to some similar degree.
Comments? Too little oxygen??
that should work, but i wonder what the realistic "shrinkage" would be. I find it hard to believe that a 1.5* change in my HT made my handlebars that much closer to my knees, but I never bothered to measure.
The cup itself moves the bearing about .4" back - that is a significant change in cockpit size; not astounding, but that much difference in any measurement effects sizing notably.
take the new angle into account, and at the max projection (highest part of bars) it would also add a bit more - so at least a half inch change from the 0 to the 1.5 cup at the bars. (I think it may be more, but my degree is in sofa warming)
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Ok I'm gonna order one today. Last chance to talk me out of it.
I realize that there may be issues but I really wanna try my Nomad with a slacker head angle so...
Heregoes!
I realize that there may be issues but I really wanna try my Nomad with a slacker head angle so...
Heregoes!
That's unfortunate I really like my XXC flush
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I finally got a test ride on my 951 with new Angleset yesterday, but not on dirt. I did notice the slacker head angle on flat pavement. What a weird feeling. I guess I'm around 62.5-63.5.
The first real test is gonna be at Platty Friday. Is there any particular types of hits where you guys have been hearing this clicking?
The first real test is gonna be at Platty Friday. Is there any particular types of hits where you guys have been hearing this clicking?
I think they were saying through rock gardens.
I most noticed the change in HA in downhill corners...ie cutting across the hill and turning into a woods section. It really didn't seem to change my handling "in the the steeps".
I most noticed the change in HA in downhill corners...ie cutting across the hill and turning into a woods section. It really didn't seem to change my handling "in the the steeps".
anything in rock gardens, especially if you hit the brakes in them. you can even test it by doing a endo in the parking lot. that was the first thing i did when i put the new headset in...and alas, no noise!
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It's a good thing we don't have any rox out here in cali. I should be fine!
My noise came from any hard, bigger hits. Noticed it on a big G-out that had a bump at the bottom too.
I could make the noise myself simply by bouncing the bike up and down.
I could make the noise myself simply by bouncing the bike up and down.
I had the same issue after I initially built my bike. I noticed that when I put my fingers against the Angleset and had someone hit the front wheel to recreate the noise, I could feel the bearing move in the gimble. I then installed a micro spacer between the top cap and compression ring and greased between the bearing and gimble and the noise was reduced and cannot be heard on the trail. I am pulling the headset apart soon and might try something besides grease between the bearing and gimble. So far the positives out weigh the negatives and I would imagine I can get the noise to go away with a little TLC.
I spoke at great length with one of the head engeneer/owners at CC and I got some good info for you all.
One critical setup trick that is not explained anywhere is how to get the gimbals straight on top of the bearings. When assembling the headset, before its tight you have to eyeball the gimbals front to back and side to side. Take a small flathead screwdriver and align the gimbals so that they are right on top of the bearings. It's tricky to do and I have found using a sharp chisel fits in there better. You have to look at the seal on the upper cap and see if there is light on one side and not on the other, and move it until it looks straight. Pry with the chisel in the gap until its even all the way around. Look at the lower gimbal. You can see gold and you can see the black bearing. Make sure the black and the gold are parallel all the way around. Pry between the lower crown and the gimbal until it's even everywhere.Then tighten the headset down.
Unfortunately this has done little to make the headset any quiter!
I have found that running the gimbals dry makes them click but not clunk which is slightly better.
My giant has a 44mm upper cup and it doesn't taper lock which makes things worse. luckily its a single crown fork so it doesn't clunk as much. they are making new 44mm cups that will taperlock. I'll probably just go with a Works Components headset. My 6" bike with a 66deg ha is rad (as long as you're going fast LOL), My whole build was around this headset.
One critical setup trick that is not explained anywhere is how to get the gimbals straight on top of the bearings. When assembling the headset, before its tight you have to eyeball the gimbals front to back and side to side. Take a small flathead screwdriver and align the gimbals so that they are right on top of the bearings. It's tricky to do and I have found using a sharp chisel fits in there better. You have to look at the seal on the upper cap and see if there is light on one side and not on the other, and move it until it looks straight. Pry with the chisel in the gap until its even all the way around. Look at the lower gimbal. You can see gold and you can see the black bearing. Make sure the black and the gold are parallel all the way around. Pry between the lower crown and the gimbal until it's even everywhere.Then tighten the headset down.
Unfortunately this has done little to make the headset any quiter!
I have found that running the gimbals dry makes them click but not clunk which is slightly better.
My giant has a 44mm upper cup and it doesn't taper lock which makes things worse. luckily its a single crown fork so it doesn't clunk as much. they are making new 44mm cups that will taperlock. I'll probably just go with a Works Components headset. My 6" bike with a 66deg ha is rad (as long as you're going fast LOL), My whole build was around this headset.
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how is this possible? the bearings sit in the gimbal.
after all this time, i thought it was the gimbals making the noise, but as you can see in my pic, its the bearing moving in the gimbal. i dont see any galling and or any other marks in the top cup that might have come from the gimbal moving
its good to know this "critical" setup is not explained anywhere and that the two instructional tutorials out there, differ in the important part of the setup
yea the bearings sit in the gimbals... and steve you are right its the bearings flip flopping around in the gimbals since they are not sitting right... obviously. I do not have any problems with my headset anymore. So IT IS USER ERROR! I know im gonna get flamed for it but its true.how is this possible? the bearings sit in the gimbal.
after all this time, i thought it was the gimbals making the noise, but as you can see in my pic, its the bearing moving in the gimbal. i dont see any galling and or any other marks in the top cup that might have come from the gimbal moving
its good to know this "critical" setup is not explained anywhere and that the two instructional tutorials out there, differ in the important part of the setup
didnt someone else install yours
i think its really hit or miss. even Krispy said he couldnt get it despite talking to the engineer at CC
yup, I couldnt get it to work for the life of me. Mr. Skatodd installed it one shot with a TON of thick grease and it worked. Might I mention he installed it 2 times and it worked great, no problems. I myself could not do it.
so yes it was USER ERROR!
so yes it was USER ERROR!