So I am in Science class the other day and the issue of animal cruelty comes up. I visited some websites and saw a video of egg-laying hens being beaten, pigs being boiled alive, and other disgusting things. This sick stuff kind of made me want to become a vegitarian. Do issues like these come up often? Discuss....
animal cruelty
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Damn cowards. at least slit their throghts first before eating it.
I am a member of P.E.T.A(peope who eat tasty animals).
I am a member of P.E.T.A(peope who eat tasty animals).
caputo1989 said:
bodycheck131 said:
Only at dinner time.
Apperantly you have never been to a meat processing plant....
:
To kill and animal and leave it to rot is wrong....hunting for the sport and meat is OK with me.
They don't call places slaughter houses for nothing. I don't hunt and would probably be ill watching a deer being field dressed but I am not against it. Only thing I have killed is pigeons that were infesting my uncles hay barn in MN. I went in with a BB gun and picked them off one by one. As the live birds flew out of the barn my father was ready with his shot gun (BAM!) the pigeons would fly back in to the barn where I would plunk a couple more before they took off outside (BAM!) and the cycle repeated. The barn cats were happy (and full) and the dairy cows food was pigeon sh!tless.
That is about my extent of killing things. As a society we have become pussified to killing. My dad grew up in a time when you ended up with to many barn cats you took them out to the back forty and put a .22 through their head. Kept the population under control...thesedays he would be vilified. *shrug*
Let your balls drop and go one living.
:To kill and animal and leave it to rot is wrong....hunting for the sport and meat is OK with me.
They don't call places slaughter houses for nothing. I don't hunt and would probably be ill watching a deer being field dressed but I am not against it. Only thing I have killed is pigeons that were infesting my uncles hay barn in MN. I went in with a BB gun and picked them off one by one. As the live birds flew out of the barn my father was ready with his shot gun (BAM!) the pigeons would fly back in to the barn where I would plunk a couple more before they took off outside (BAM!) and the cycle repeated. The barn cats were happy (and full) and the dairy cows food was pigeon sh!tless.
That is about my extent of killing things. As a society we have become pussified to killing. My dad grew up in a time when you ended up with to many barn cats you took them out to the back forty and put a .22 through their head. Kept the population under control...thesedays he would be vilified. *shrug*
Let your balls drop and go one living.
RhinofromWA said:Apperantly you have never been to a meat processing plant....
To kill and animal and leave it to rot is wrong....hunting for the sport and meat is OK with me.
They don't call places slaughter houses for nothing. I don't hunt and would probably be ill watching a deer being field dressed but I am not against it. Only thing I have killed is pigeons that were infesting my uncles hay barn in MN. I went in with a BB gun and picked them off one by one. As the live birds flew out of the barn my father was ready with his shot gun (BAM!) the pigeons would fly back in to the barn where I would plunk a couple more
before they took off outside (BAM!) and the cycle repeated. The barn cats were happy (and full) and the dairy cows food was pigeon sh!tless.
That is about my extent of killing things. As a society we have become pussified to killing. My dad grew up in a time when you ended up with to many barn cats you took them out to the back forty and put a .22 through their head. Kept the population under control...thesedays he would be vilified. *shrug*
Let your balls drop and go one living.
definately dude!... killing and human violence roXors!!!!!
damn society that pussifies the inner male..
You joke but I wouldn't call it a step forward in human kind.ALEXIS_DH said:definately dude!... killing and human violence roXors!!!!!
damn society that pussifies the inner male..
What is wrong with killing animals? If you are using what you catch...
This generation is mega-pussified. Many don't have the mental fortitude to handle the crappy parts of life. I don't necessarily but some are uber-sensitive.
I guess we could be running around in cotton loin cloths singing Koom-bi-ya(dont have a clue how to spell that) and smelling of BO and patchuli. Then when a baby sparrow falls out of a tree and dies we can stop traffic and have a memorial parade.
Just say no to Pussifying.
oh man, let me tell you.....as soon as that first bit of dried, sodium-rich goodness known as jerkey hits your tongue, you forget all about guttin' that deer. the smell, the blood, the hanging by tendons in its rear legs, the smell ripping through your head as curiousity gets the best of you and you cut open the stomach.RhinofromWA said:
oh man, i can't wait till huntin' season. jerkey and dried sausage are the greatest meats ever.
oh yeah...one day while working at the golf course, a squirrel ran under someone's cart and was knocked silly. leg(s) broken, it couldn't run, and had blood coming out of it's mouth. randomly it would start shaking badly (we watched it a few mins to see if it would run away) this guy who had plans of going to the armed forces borrowed my knife and cut the squirrel's head off. right there in the parking lot. what a nut.
My mom and step dad recently retired to Oregon. A few weeks ago I was up there visiting and my step dad and I were on our way back to their pad from town when we happend on a bunch of cars stopped on the two lane canyon road. We could see a bunch of folks standing beside the road apparently looking at something with great concern, women with their hands to their mouths in that pained-shocked way you only see in movies and the guys with sad faces and their hands in their pockets.
As we walked up on the group we realized that the reason for the commotion was a deer that had been hit by the most blithering of the idiots in the group. A 40-odd year old guy and his wife were "absolutely horrified by this". So much so, that they stood there doing nothing. My stepdad addressed the group as such, "You all seem to be really concerned here. But for who? Your poor little selves for having to see this cute little animal or the deer that is laying there with broken legs, a broken hip and bleeding internally wondering which one of you sorry motherf$%#ers is going to take it out of it's misery?
They all looked at him absolutely aghast that someone would say such a thing at a time such as this. But none of them was as shocked by his statement as they were by the report of the 12ga I placed against the deers head to kill the poor thing.
There must have been seven different people clamoring for their cell phones to call the cops. Of course none of them thought to call one to come kill the deer. When the Sheriff came he told the group to head back to LA or wherever they'd come from, then he said thanks to me and my step dad, loaded the deer in his trunk, and got my step dad's number so he could bring him some jerky.
You should have heard the people gasp at the thought of the Sheriff actually EATING the thing.
Rhino is right, too many pu$$ies these days.
As we walked up on the group we realized that the reason for the commotion was a deer that had been hit by the most blithering of the idiots in the group. A 40-odd year old guy and his wife were "absolutely horrified by this". So much so, that they stood there doing nothing. My stepdad addressed the group as such, "You all seem to be really concerned here. But for who? Your poor little selves for having to see this cute little animal or the deer that is laying there with broken legs, a broken hip and bleeding internally wondering which one of you sorry motherf$%#ers is going to take it out of it's misery?
They all looked at him absolutely aghast that someone would say such a thing at a time such as this. But none of them was as shocked by his statement as they were by the report of the 12ga I placed against the deers head to kill the poor thing.
There must have been seven different people clamoring for their cell phones to call the cops. Of course none of them thought to call one to come kill the deer. When the Sheriff came he told the group to head back to LA or wherever they'd come from, then he said thanks to me and my step dad, loaded the deer in his trunk, and got my step dad's number so he could bring him some jerky.
You should have heard the people gasp at the thought of the Sheriff actually EATING the thing.
Rhino is right, too many pu$$ies these days.
I would agree that killing or torturing an animal for "fun" (ie not for food) is not cool - I've seen some videos of some jacka$$es in KC who set a little dog on fire just to watch it..............that is messed up.
That said, I'm cool with hunting and putting an animal out of it's misery. After my wife and I got married, we spent 6 months living on her families farm (her dad had passed away, and her mom was sick and could not run the farm) so as a city kid I got a crash course in putting animals down - which was hard at first, but I got over it realizing the animal was suffering.
That said, I'm cool with hunting and putting an animal out of it's misery. After my wife and I got married, we spent 6 months living on her families farm (her dad had passed away, and her mom was sick and could not run the farm) so as a city kid I got a crash course in putting animals down - which was hard at first, but I got over it realizing the animal was suffering.
Yeah, while we're at it, lets all eschew leather, and of course reject any medical advances made via the suffering of the animals!bodycheck131 said:
Nah, screw that, lets just eat meat and reap the benefits of the responsible use of animals for food, sundries, and information and heath benefits.
RhinofromWA said:You joke but I wouldn't call it a step forward in human kind.
What is wrong with killing animals? If you are using what you catch...
This generation is mega-pussified. Many don't have the mental fortitude to handle the crappy parts of life. I don't necessarily but some are uber-sensitive.
I guess we could be running around in cotton loin cloths singing Koom-bi-ya(dont have a clue how to spell that) and smelling of BO and patchuli. Then when a baby sparrow falls out of a tree and dies we can stop traffic and have a memorial parade.
well, i dont think this should be a constest of "we have to get less pussified" just for the sake of it, you know...
i think that the further away mankind moves from violence in anyway the better.. of course some violence is needed to keep stuff on track, but it would be the best to keep it to the minumum....
just like you say "today kids dont get the mental fortitude to handle hard things in life" because they are used to less violence with animals, or glorify your dads ability to shoot... I can tell you, rhino, are pussified as well, since you never lived a guerrilla, your mom never had an armored car, your mom was not kidnapped twice... so you would not have the ability to deal with tought chit in life like i can...
and you see.. that is a bit of a messed up reasoning, and to suggest that violence in some sort is required to build up character... they are 2 unrelated things.
i just can say, from my limited experience, that the further away from violence in any way, the better off a society is...
in my view, violence, guns, and that kind of things should be kept to the bare minimum, since the price you pay when "things go wrong" (even if the risk is minimal) is a gazillion times worse than any benefit you could get from it....
You don't quit understand.ALEXIS_DH said:
My father killings the kittens wasn't unwarranted violence. It was reality, something much of the "better off" countries put off from children. To much I say.
If you are driving around in armoured cars and fighting as a gurilla you are in an bad and overly violent situation.
I could bleed out of my non-vagina every time a pigeon croaked but that is so far on the other end of the armoured call example that they are both wrong.
Life isn't all lollipops and gum drops and if you think we should shelter grown people from it you are plain out NUTS.
If you are indeed living La vida loca than you are in a bad way my friend. But your idealized society is just as bad. People still die bad things happen but now you don't have the ability to cope with it. That is just as bad.
But you can dream.
RhinofromWA said:You don't wuit understand.
My father killings the kittens wasn't unwarranted violence. It was reality, something much of the "better off" countries put off from children. To much I say.
If you are driving around in armoured cars and fighting as a gurilla you are in an bad and overly violent situation.
I could bleed out of my non-vagina every time a pigeon croaked but that is so far on the other end of the armoured call example that they are both wrong.
Life isn't all lollipops and gum drops and if you think we should shelter grown people from it you are plain out NUTS.
If you are indeed living La vida loca than you are in a bad way my friend. But your idealized society is just as bad. People still die bad things happen but now you don't have the ability to cope with it. That is just as bad.
But you can dream.
being exposed to violence (warranted or not) does not help people with their abilities to deal with chit in life.
in fact, violence exposure leads to desensitization. You say "life isnt lollipops". of course it isnt!! there is not need for unwarranted extra exposure on top of that..
you dont need more of it to be able to deal with it. in fact.. if such behaviors exists is due to some people who became so desensitized to violence that they dont give a crap about commiting unwarranted crimes.
and that is all related. "law abiding" people, and criminals.. they all started at some point in which they all were "law abiding citizens".. in fact i could argue intuitively that violence exposure, and violent model behaviours early in life may be related in turning "law abiding kids" into criminals..
which is contradictory with the idea that "we should not become pussified" since it will not teach us to deal with life... when in fact such "phallification" (i had to use that word!) actually contributes in the first place to create the very enviroment you want to get "tough" for??
in a way, violence exposure, violent model behaviours and etc, etc... help to create and mantain a violent society, AND also (according to your view) to prepare people for that violent society.
weird isnt it?? to mantain a behaviour that actually contributes to BOTH the problem and "the solution"...
The people who were in shock from the deer on the side of the road (in DT's example) were helpless to deal with the situation. Their lives and life experiences couldn't cope with seeing a deer suffereing on the side of the road. They would rather let the poor animal die slowly and painfully while they watched (no doubt thinking they were comforting the deer) DT did the right thing and people were disgusted by him doing so. That is so far past a happy medium it is truely wrong.ALEXIS_DH said:
As far as life struggles (wich is something that should never be a contest) my child hood friend committed suicide before graduating highschool. I came close to duying in a MTB accident a few years ago. A friend crashed and hit his head while riding a dirt bike and was incoherent and convulsing....The ambulance wouldn't drive into the woods to get him (on a dirt road we drove 40ft motorhomes into) and I actually opened the door and told the guy I would drive if he didn't.
Sounds like you have seen some nasty stuff. But it is kind far left of the topic of animal cruelty. No one should have to experience that level of violence but being void of it doesn't allow you to understand it's place.
As far as contradicting yourself
So are you saying that we should be ignorant of violence? Or are you saying we need a special death squad to carry out our every violent act...just keep it to a minimum
Being knowledgable of life (and death) does not mean you are going out and slitting peoples throats. In fact they might be the same kind of person you want peopel to be. The blissfully ignorant people who read about death in a text book are not prepared to deal with death in real life.I am not saying beat your kid, it will do him good....you are WAY OFF. You need to reassess where you think I am coming from. Yes violence, for violence sake is going to screw up a person. Yet you seem fairly well adjusted,,,as much as one can tell via a internet messege board.
Understanding that life AND DEATH are a part of real life does not have to be bad. Far from it actually. Teaching a kid about LIFE and not fantasy is not going to contribute to them becoming a criminal or able to commit criminal acts....it is quite the opposite that same kid realizes and can understand the outcome of his future choices where as sheltered kids frankly don't have that level of understanding.
some examples:
1) join the military yet refuse to go to war....
what did they think they werwe signing up for?2) leaving an animal to suffer because they can't accept that death is coming to it and it will only suffer terrible before passing on.
3) Sheltered kids pulling a gun on a classmate because they made fun of them.
4) anchoring a dog up to a tree and shooting it with arrows repeatedly pulling them out and reshooting the animal until it is dead.
....etc.
Once again for clarification.....having a kid understand the cycle of life and death and how their steak makes it to their table for dinner is different than kidnapping mothers and shooting neighborhood dogs for sh!tting in your yard.
Is it sharp?ohio said:
THere is no right and wrong. Humans kill animals, it is beneficial to humans.
End of story.
End of story.
RhinofromWA said:The people who were in shock from the deer on the side of the road (in DT's example) were helpless to deal with the situation. Their lives and life experiences couldn't cope with seeing a deer suffereing on the side of the road. They would rather let the poor animal die slowly and painfully while they watched (no doubt thinking they were comforting the deer) DT did the right thing and people were disgusted by him doing so. That is so far past a happy medium it is truely wrong.
As far as life struggles (wich is something that should never be a contest) my child hood friend committed suicide before graduating highschool. I came close to duying in a MTB accident a few years ago. A friend crashed and hit his head while riding a dirt bike and was incoherent and convulsing....The ambulance wouldn't drive into the woods to get him (on a dirt road we drove 40ft motorhomes into) and I actually opened the door and told the guy I would drive if he didn't.
Sounds like you have seen some nasty stuff. But it is kind far left of the topic of animal cruelty. No one should have to experience that level of violence but being void of it doesn't allow you to understand it's place.
As far as contradicting yourself So are you saying that we should be ignorant of violence? Or are you saying we need a special death squad to carry out our every violent act...just keep it to a minimum
I am not saying beat your kid, it will do him good....you are WAY OFF. You need to reassess where you think I am coming from. Yes violence, for violence sake is going to screw up a person. Yet you seem fairly well adjusted,,,as much as one can tell via a internet messege board.
Understanding that life AND DEATH are a part of real life does not have to be bad. Far from it actually. Teaching a kid about LIFE and not fantasy is not going to contribute to them becoming a criminal or able to commit criminal acts....it is quite the opposite that same kid realizes and can understand the outcome of his future choices where as sheltered kids frankly don't have that level of understanding.
some examples:
1) join the military yet refuse to go to war....
2) leaving an animal to suffer because they can't accept that death is coming to it and it will only suffer terrible before passing on.
3) Sheltered kids pulling a gun on a classmate because they made fun of them.
4) anchoring a dog up to a tree and shooting it with arrows repeatedly pulling them out and reshooting the animal until it is dead.
....etc.
Once again for clarification.....having a kid understand the cycle of life and death and how their steak makes it to their table for dinner is different than kidnapping mothers and shooting neighborhood dogs for sh!tting in your yard.
what am saying is that the "violence for educational purposes" requirement is pretty much covered with the violence (warranted, unwarranted, animal, human or whatever) available, and there is no need for more because you run the risk of desensitizing kids. not that is should be ignored,
no need to show kids violence, they already get enough.. what kids should be taught is the effects of violence along with it, so they get a better perspective of what violence really means.
i was exposed to a crapload of violence until i was like 10. and in fact i think that had a big influence in my pacifist views of the world.
i also think, that being exposed to extreme violence AND its effects makes you a pacifist pussy, and exposure to medium levels of violence, but no exposure to the effects of it (like the US mainstream) makes you a desensitized human.
and, intuitively, desensitation probably leads to a higher likehood of commiting violent crimes, which actually worsens the initial problem of dealing with life.
this it not that far fetched from the topic, since animal cruelty and violence with animals are within my concept of violence, which is not limited to human killings, but including fights, blood, behaviours, wars on tv, etc...
What's your point? That logic cuts both ways. Unlike when humans kill animals, when animals kill humans it's always because it's beneficial to the killer. But we make a big fuss over that and go on a rampage trying to kill every similar "dangerous" animal in the area.ioscope said:
ohio said:
That is pretty gruesome to watch and those folks would have had a collective fit over it.
I was riding in a car with a co-worker in WA when I was first in the CG ('90 or so) and he hit a deer. All he had was an 8" buck (ironic huh?) knife. He had to slit the things throat to kill it. It wasn't as quick a death as you'd like to think, but it had to be done.
I disagree. I am old enough to be on the tail end of the generations in which fathers hunted and fished with their sons (sadly few do any longer). I was taught the ethics of killing animals (never kill just to kill, eat what you kill, never let a wounded animal get away etc). I was also taught in very real terms what knives, guns and to some extent fishooks are. Insturments of death. But I was taught that they are tools to be used for specific purposes, not toys. I was taught exactly and in gruesome detail just how destructive they are. As such, I as a child, did not view guns and knives any differently than I did the shovel hanging on the tool rack in the garage.ALEXIS_DH said:
If kids arent taught about things they will develop a facination with these taboo items. If kids don't see death they will not understand it, appreciate it or reasonably understand the value of life.
Damn True said:
so you were actually exposed to the effects of violence.. which is basically contrary to most kids who just see violence on tv, the street, etc, etc.. and never get to see the aftermath of it...
that is what made the difference, not the fact you were exposed to violence itself, but that you learnt first hand its effects.
and you can learnt first hand its effect without the need to create more, like going to a trauma room in a hospital and see what happens when people get shot or stabbed, or even watching videos about the effects of crashes...
you see. in a way its like car crashing, and those educational driving videos for drunks.. you dont get to fear crashes and be a more responsible driver by just watching a ton of crashes.. you get to fear them and easing on the speed by watching what happened to the people after the crash. if you just watch crashes, and not the aftermath, you get desensitized about them, and you see car crashes just as a car colliding, not as a person inside getting gored and loosing a limb....
on the other hand if you associate by conditioning a crash with gore, blood, pain and death... its more effective than just watching plain crashes on COPS, or police hottests pursuits.. without the need to actually crash cars to get violence exposure. you can just learn from the ones that happened by chance.
association, conditioning and aversion therapy in psychology are very effective.
violence is kinda similar.
I've never had to do that to a deer, but I've watched it done. It was ugly, and it took a long time and a lot of effort. I would do it if I had to but I hope I don't ever have to. Back home, it would be a matter of minutes before someone with a rifle drove by. Out here in CA, I don't know...Damn True said:
Seconds....oh you said rifle.ohio said:
Seconds would imply that you have cars/trucks driving by every few seconds. Population isn't that dense where I'm from. It would be minutes before another car came by. Probably wouldn't be more than 2 or 3 cars before someone with at least a .22 showed up.RhinofromWA said:Seconds....oh you said rifle.
edit: just realized you were talking about my CA comment. Nevermind. I've been a little slow with the postings lately. Chalk it up to fatigue...
Again, it sucks to do, but it sucks a lot worse than watching an animal suffer.
This thread reminded me (for some reason) of the scene in Austin Powers with Will Ferrell....""I'm really quite badly burned.....BANG!!....You shot me! You shot me in the arm!!"