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anodizing Questions and answers!

Please post your question so I can answer it, there is alot of speculation circling around to the extent of anodizing, how it works, what can and cannot be done as well as tolerances and the effects.


This is a question I was asked:
? I'm told by my frame manufacturer that they recommend against anodizing for the following reason: The etching process prior to anodizing actually removes a slight amount of frame material, so unless the raw material is built up with the anodizing process in mind, i.e. the frame is intentionally "overbuilt," it's not a great idea to have a frame anodized. This particularly relevant to places on the frame where tolerances are tight (bearing seats, etc.).

Do you have any info on this issue?

Answer:
This is a yes/no situation.
1- If a frame is powdercoated we can skip the etch process, all together so ther for no material is removed.
2- If a frame is anodized then the best way to strip it is to first lightly media blast the surface as to break down the nicle seal and ano, then run a 3 min etch at longest this will take the peaks down, and remove the finish without jepordizing any tolerances.

3- We can mask off any areas that are questionable like BB threads, bearing pivots, headtube etc. It will not be effected by any of the solutions in any of the tanks at all.

You have to understand that this industry up until recently was done in dirty warehouses with no mil spec process controls, bad chemistry along with dirty tanks that have not been titrated on a schedueled maintenance program. They run the tanks with hand held timers as well with manual rectifier controls that are not accurate and leave alot of problems in the long run.
Are whole line is computer controlled as well as we have a 2 day rotation for titration and computer controlled rectifiers that digitally read out all output along with a printout that shows the whole process and information in the ano tanks 10 and 11.
We spec all items with a meter that verify the coating thickness of the anodize layer.

You have to understand we do alot of precision military contract that the tolerancs are far superioir to anything in mountain biking so we already have all the necessary items to prevent any fitment problems. Our whole ano line is mil spec computer process control, on top of that we are the only Anodizing shop in the USA to accomodate all 3 process control systems from chemistry, job pro applications and mil spec computer process control. We are also finalizing our ISO 9000's as well as being approved as a Boeing vendor. We work with Lockhead-Martin, General Dynamics and Qualcom just to drop a few of our clients.

Also you can lok at the mtn. bike part of our website I had it updated today for my own sanity. www.absolutefinish.com
 
Also here is a bro deal price for RM members.
camo pattern (colors and patterns are your choice and included)
frame $180
Cranks $35
Bashguard $35
parts pkg $40 (includes up to 4 items ie. brake levers, post, stem, seat collar, odi loc jaws, bars etc...)

I will Trade for services as well, if you have used or new parts not being used I need some stuff for my current bike and am willing to trade this service all or partial towards your stuff.
Ie rear der, shifters, stem, wheelset, etc...
I AM A PARTS WHORE. :D I break em and replace em so used doesn't bother me as long as they work and are in good shape.

Pm me with questions or other and I will answer.
 
These are some items we can do:
Yes I can get logos on frame with outlined vinyl for the design, multi color and single color no problem, fades and splash, lightning and flames YES! YES! and YES! I can do them and have done them in the past with great sucess and even flames with faded tips.
 

snowskilz

xblue attacked piggy won
May 15, 2004
615
0
rado
will you strip the paint off the frame? is there an extra cost?

whats your turnaround approx?
 

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,160
0
at the end of the longest line
some trivia:

i found that i could spec a slightly higer interference fit with an annodized part than without, despite the annodized layer creating a smaller diameter bore. The reason for this seems to be the annodized layer is harder and has less friction, and will deform less, therefore the bearing may slide in easier with less chance of damage despite being a tighter fit. So annodized aluminum + bearing = great interface.
 

MadDHer

Monkey
Mar 8, 2006
125
0
Not really, but I was trying to shed some light to the kid. Go get some chicks, put down the keyboard!
Isn't that the reason we all got into MTB, money and the bltches?!
That's why I race, otherwise I would just ride.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,060
62
chez moi
You have to understand we do alot of precision military contract that the tolerancs are far superioir to anything in mountain biking so we already have all the necessary items to prevent any fitment problems.
The term 'mil-spec' always makes me laugh. After spending a few years in the Marines, I don't tend to think of it as a positive thing, heh. Most military stuff is pretty obviously made in the cheapest way possible...
civilian gear generally seems awesome in comparison. And the industries which used to copy the military (outdoor stuff, esp.) are now the models which the military tries to copy.

The new ArcTeryx pack is pretty sweet, as is ArcTeryx's whole new line of government stuff...

Anyhow, back to your regularly-scheduled anodizing thread. I like anodized stuff. Just don't CARC-paint my frame...

MD
 

shock

Monkey
Feb 20, 2002
369
0
zedro said:
some trivia:

i found that i could spec a slightly higer interference fit with an annodized part than without, despite the annodized layer creating a smaller diameter bore. The reason for this seems to be the annodized layer is harder and has less friction, and will deform less, therefore the bearing may slide in easier with less chance of damage despite being a tighter fit. So annodized aluminum + bearing = great interface.
mmmm, you sure? My experience is that a deco ano (as opposed to hard) removes a couple tenths (.0001 inches), due to the oxidation/etching at the surface level. If I'm having parts deco ano, i make sure the interference is a bit tighter than it would be bare. Have you measured the bore before and after?

Also, if you're using a bond (i.e. bonding carbon to alum) ano is a bit iffy, too smooth, doesn't let the adhesive "grip").

Hard ano is a different story, as there is significant buildup (typically up to 5/10, i.e .0005 inches), and must be taken into account when dimensioning parts. This can get especially tricky with threads.

But I know were really talking about deco as opposed to hard.

Stripping parts that are already anodized is another problem, as the stripping process seems to remove another 10th or two.

We're talkng miniscule amounts, but when we're talkng bearing bores and such. that's all it takes...
 

shock

Monkey
Feb 20, 2002
369
0
MikeD said:
The term 'mil-spec' always makes me laugh.
MD
You mean like $5000 toilet seats and hammers and sh*t?

Anyone who's been in the military knows that military intelligence is a condradiction in terms, hell goverment intellegence for that matter...(how 'bout those mil spec o-rings on the shuttle...)

mil spec= lots of paperwork to drive up the cost....not that they aren't trying...
 

shock

Monkey
Feb 20, 2002
369
0
MadDHer said:
Not really, but I was trying to shed some light to the kid. Go get some chicks, put down the keyboard!
Isn't that the reason we all got into MTB, money and the bltches?!
That's why I race, otherwise I would just ride.
What, money for nothin and chicks for free? better learn how to play guitar (man I can't believe I just quoted that no-talent...)
 

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,160
0
at the end of the longest line
shock said:
mmmm, you sure?
type 2 annodizing, adds upto 0.001" (typically half tho), but i guess that depens on the original roughness of the part. Since you are converting Al to Al2-O3, you are essentially adding matter, but i guess a higher roughness Al surface could be smoothed out by the process and appear to remove material instead.

But yeah, bonding stuff i could see being a problem.
 

shock

Monkey
Feb 20, 2002
369
0
zedro said:
type 2 annodizing, adds upto 0.001" (typically half tho), but i guess that depens on the original roughness of the part. Since you are converting Al to Al2-O3, you are essentially adding matter, but i guess a higher roughness Al surface could be smoothed out by the process and appear to remove material instead.

But yeah, bonding stuff i could see being a problem.
Type 2 is hard ano, right? I alway design for .0005" build up (with .0005" surface penetration), which would be .001" on a diameter. That's where threads get tricky.

But the deco ano (just about any part you see other than fork legs/shock shafts) doesn't build up.

But I think in your earlier post about using a tighter fit might well be due to the smoother rms. The deco ano process knocks off the high spots...
 

skibum3789

Chimp
Aug 12, 2005
78
0
Massachusettes
i know this is kind of an old thread but i goota ask if you have ever seen like a die dye pattern on a frame with like a phish theme or something. really wanna try and get something like that this winter on my v10