No worries Fly Rider, very few people even know the name of the angered owner. And only two guys got his contact info on that day: one RMD rider and one non-RMD rider. Agreed, the owner should not be overwhelmed by phone calls and emails from varying people. RMD started this, so we'll let them resolve it.
Another DH spot falls to poor decision making
- Thread starter DHblur
- Start date
First of all, I find it funny that you mention the word disrespectful considering a case of disrespect is what got the trails shut down in the first place.
Second, did you not read the part in my first post where I put that it not only loses a riding spot for us but puts yet another black eye on the community. Like I said, I'm not as mad at RMD riders as I am at the whole situation. I just think that as the trail leaders persay, the RMD guys, could have done a better job of keeping the bridge building to a minimum and making sure everyone else knew those rules. This is all in order to keep our reputation at least decent. I feel very priveledged to have used those trails and I'm thankful for all the time and effort that went in up there(and yes I had a part of that). The fact remains that riding spots are going to continue just coming and going unless someone steps up demands some respect for other people and their requests. If that never happens we'll just keep running around in the same circles we have been for the past 3 years.
Take for example, Arbor. The reason it has lasted so long is because, for the most part(with the exception of a few grom mistakes) the riders in this area have never given the city a reason to shut it down. It is always kept clean, we don't do things that make the neighbors angry and as a result we have had a consistent long lasting riding spot that has grown the riding community. We have shown respect for the area we have and in return the city respects us. If you respect what is given to you, respect will be given back. Going against a land owners' wishes is not a good way to gain respect.
Maybe instead of disrespectful I should have said backstabbing. Once again, you fail to respect the fact that the guys you're so readily hacking on are the only reason you ever saw or rode those trails. I can tell you that mistake won't happen again. You say you're not as mad at RMD riders as the whole situation? For the record, nobody gives a crap who you're mad at JUNIOR. The guys you're ripping on have been dealing with this since you were still breast feeding (probably 'til you were 12 or so, right?), a lot longer than the 3 years you refer to. Furthermore, you say that you've done some building up there but 2 days of work doesn't even count, we've been building at Idaho for almost 5 years!!!
I'm not gonna debate with you about Lake Arbor, but if you think it's still open because of what a bunch of Saints everyone has been, you're fooling yourself. At the Lake Arbor I go to there is trash everywhere, people pissing in the fields, weed smokin' and huge holes everywhere. Just what every neighbor wants!!!
I'm not gonna debate with you about Lake Arbor, but if you think it's still open because of what a bunch of Saints everyone has been, you're fooling yourself. At the Lake Arbor I go to there is trash everywhere, people pissing in the fields, weed smokin' and huge holes everywhere. Just what every neighbor wants!!!
Yo dhdude you really need to relax on the blur and focus on what he is saying. He IS appreciative of the fact he was shown the trails, but he is upset that the people in charge did not appreciate the trails enough to consider what if? What if the land owner shows up? What if he cares? What happens then. I am dissapointed that such a valuable resource was shut down because of irresponsible actions by people who have been riding since dhblur has been sucking on his mamas nipple. I think that is what he meant.
DHDUDE said:
Take a breath... its going to be alright. Flaming about the issue isn't going to help anything or anybody. The only thing that I think dhblur was trying to say is that he's agrivated that people were irresponsible and went beyond the limits of what they should have. I haven't ever ridden these trails but just the fact that they were there is pretty sweet, but I think the point of the matter is simply that people just went too far whether knowingly or not.
I am way past the point of being "P.C." here and I'm definitely not trying to "help" anything or anybody as you suggest. I'm telling all the secret smack talkers on this website that if you aren't one of the people who started these trails, you are in no position to criticize. Period. Furthermore, if you do want to talk about someone (especially as specifically as you have), have the respect, guts, whatever, to do it in person instead of cowering behind your keyboard like you're some loser in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back (excellent film).
Wow - you guys are pretty unbelieveable. Glad i left boulder for canada, where we don't have retarded issues like this.
You guys all need to leave the 303 for awhile, boulder in particular... 9 square miles surrounded by reality really does fit.
It's a friggin trail, not your wives. Share the love and quit bitching.
You guys all need to leave the 303 for awhile, boulder in particular... 9 square miles surrounded by reality really does fit.
It's a friggin trail, not your wives. Share the love and quit bitching.
Transcend was right by saying share the love and quit bitching. Mtn biking is not a secret society. We all should share what we have. I personally never rode the trail in question but i was invited up there. Heard about how sick it was and how you could jump over a mine shaft bla bla bla.
i have said this before and i will say this again... I am originally from Pa and where i was from every local was glad to show you "their" spot. Out here is not like that and we need to work on some comradery. If we dont get along and work twoards a common goal then we will never have a trail to ride other then keystone.
Dream4est is trying his hardest to get something going on his land in the same area if ya wanna help out go dig with him. I would def suggest that for now. As soon as i get over this darn pneumonia i will be up there shovel in one hand chain saw in the other
i have said this before and i will say this again... I am originally from Pa and where i was from every local was glad to show you "their" spot. Out here is not like that and we need to work on some comradery. If we dont get along and work twoards a common goal then we will never have a trail to ride other then keystone.
Dream4est is trying his hardest to get something going on his land in the same area if ya wanna help out go dig with him. I would def suggest that for now. As soon as i get over this darn pneumonia i will be up there shovel in one hand chain saw in the other
maybe you dudes should get off your computer go outside and build some trials..(and then not share them with anybody)
Well said, I know that the RMD guys feel the same as you, that's why they have had the open door policy at the said trails, which was way cool of them. Talking smack about the people who allowed us to ride there is lame, so lame it's not even funny. To each his own I guess but I'm appreciative of the time I had there and it was because of the RMD guys, thanks!snowskilz said:
.word.
I agree with mtnrider and snowskilz fully. The original reason I made the first post was to first make people aware and to not ride up there and second, to use the situation as an example of what not to do... nothing more. Unfortunately as a result of the second portion of that, some finger pointing was made and it got way too personal way too quick. A large portion of our community has the same problem as the people that built those bridges and I just wanted to use the RMD guys as a perfect example of it. As a whole, we all need to be need to be more long sighted and less selfish and take a look what we are doing before we act and make all of us look stupid.
I will say this again since no one seems to have noticed it thus far: I feel very priveledged to have ridden there and thank everyone that was involved in the foundation and upkeep of those trails. But for future reference just remember to be respectful of the situation and think things through before you hurt such a small community.
I'm sorry this got as personal as it did and I'll probably just delete this thread here in a while but before I do I think we can all agree that we owe it to the land owner to reveg the trails and take down all the bridges should he allow us to do so. I know Lee has already looked into that and hopefully he will keep us updated. We all enjoyed the trails and we all deserve to put in the work to shut them down.
I will say this again since no one seems to have noticed it thus far: I feel very priveledged to have ridden there and thank everyone that was involved in the foundation and upkeep of those trails. But for future reference just remember to be respectful of the situation and think things through before you hurt such a small community.
I'm sorry this got as personal as it did and I'll probably just delete this thread here in a while but before I do I think we can all agree that we owe it to the land owner to reveg the trails and take down all the bridges should he allow us to do so. I know Lee has already looked into that and hopefully he will keep us updated. We all enjoyed the trails and we all deserve to put in the work to shut them down.
Who is Lee? The "RMD" guys and myself are looking into what we're going to do with this situation and it would be much appreciated if anyone who is thinking about contacting the land owner or taking ANY further action would contact us first. Thanks. I (James) can be reached to discuss this matter at (303) 884-7404.
Lee is one of the two people that was up there that day that got the land owner's number. He is a great guy with awesome people skills and knows how to market himself and his cause well. If I were to choose one person as a voice for all the riders up there(not saying that I have that authority) it would be Lee or Matt Thompson. Believe me, you want Lee to help you out.
Yeah Lee is a great ambassabor and definately will be an asset to your cause, you can get his contact info off of http://www.leelikesbikes.com. Best of luck, and as I said before, if a crew is needed to go remove stunts or plants trees or whatever I'm here to help, just shoot me a PM.
DHBlur, as with most of what you've said you are wrong again. Lee was not among the people who were up there "that day". I would love for Lee or MT to assist with this cause but I'm sick of your bull****. Instead of just making things up, why don't you get your facts from one of the people who was really there, such as myself? God you are annoying.
Dude settle down. I'm just going what I have been told. I heard that Lee had gotten the number from the land owner that day. I'm simply trying to help the situation with suggestions on where to look for help. That wasn't a "you're wrong" personal attack post.
Okay, everybody settle down. Go look in the mirror and decide what have you really done to help the problem.
Brendon, be quite....
RMD and Crew, just realize this is like one big Italian familiy fight, we all love each other and understand we're all frustrated here.
Look, things could be worse. You could be hurt.
Brendon, be quite....
RMD and Crew, just realize this is like one big Italian familiy fight, we all love each other and understand we're all frustrated here.
Look, things could be worse. You could be hurt.
The whole deal is a friggin drag. I never even got invited to said trails.
and now, I will never have the chance to be invited to said trails.
I guarantee I wouldnt have disrespected. :angry:
and now, I will never have the chance to be invited to said trails.
I guarantee I wouldnt have disrespected. :angry:
Alright, so I was talking with Rob Sears yesterday out at Arbor and he mentioned the idea of hind sight and I just wanted to take a quick time to try and settle things up here.
First of all, I really did not mean for this thread to get as personal as it did. The original post was merely to use this situation as an example of how all of us need to respect the land and priveleges we have and keep within the boundaries that are set for us. Not saying that I blame RMD for losing the spot or any of that, because it was their trails to begin with but I meant it purely for future reference so that hopefully we can one day have a consistent spot that everyone can have fun riding for a long time. I think the problem just quickly escalated from an overall broad issue to personal flamings of who can ride what and then the thread was screwed from there. I didn't intend for that to happen.
Second, I want to apologize for how personal it did get and to all of the people I did offend. We're all frustrated here, I just happen to have the worst anger management issues out of all of us, that's all. But really, I thank RMD for the trails that I got to ride for the last two winters as they were crucial to my succesful race season last year and the training I got on them this year will help for this season as well.
That's all, I just wanted to cool off this thread a little bit and hopefully from now on, it will be used only for updates on what is happening with cleaning the trails up and all of that.
First of all, I really did not mean for this thread to get as personal as it did. The original post was merely to use this situation as an example of how all of us need to respect the land and priveleges we have and keep within the boundaries that are set for us. Not saying that I blame RMD for losing the spot or any of that, because it was their trails to begin with but I meant it purely for future reference so that hopefully we can one day have a consistent spot that everyone can have fun riding for a long time. I think the problem just quickly escalated from an overall broad issue to personal flamings of who can ride what and then the thread was screwed from there. I didn't intend for that to happen.
Second, I want to apologize for how personal it did get and to all of the people I did offend. We're all frustrated here, I just happen to have the worst anger management issues out of all of us, that's all. But really, I thank RMD for the trails that I got to ride for the last two winters as they were crucial to my succesful race season last year and the training I got on them this year will help for this season as well.
That's all, I just wanted to cool off this thread a little bit and hopefully from now on, it will be used only for updates on what is happening with cleaning the trails up and all of that.
hey if anyone interested wants to build on my property give me a ring. its 7 miles west of idaho springs. its about 16 acres with shuttle road and south facing. i am looking to work with local riders in a club format. i own the land and it has varying slopes, natural features and roads. i realized what has happened and would like to offer my land but more responsible usage and a legitimate organization of riders will be priorities. i understand how it feels when a land owner changes his mind so i sympathize with the current plight of most local riders. i dont really care about the past so anyone who is interested i am down to help.
im not looking to make money off locals. i am planning on running a business in the future but it is not related to the possibility of a local club using my property. maybe i will ask such a club to lease the land and maybe i will not. it depends on what type of discussions we have and if people could band together to do this.
if you post here i may not reply quickly so call if you have any questions.
mark caminiti
720-635-7429
im not looking to make money off locals. i am planning on running a business in the future but it is not related to the possibility of a local club using my property. maybe i will ask such a club to lease the land and maybe i will not. it depends on what type of discussions we have and if people could band together to do this.
if you post here i may not reply quickly so call if you have any questions.
mark caminiti
720-635-7429
Mark how's the building going up there? When are you going to have some weekend build days? I'd be happy to come help but need to know when.dream4est said:
I have been to the trails. I was there one day and spent half the time moving dirt and the other half taking pictures of those with bikes. I was so psyched to see trails again and to see motivated riders out there making it happen. I must say that as impressive as it was to see bridges out there it did put a bad taste in my mouth, because most of the time built wooden structures of any kind are the things that scare landowners. Not to mention that most were attached right to trees and there are not many people that will stand for that.
I have a lot of respect for those that put together the trails, who networked the arrangements and for those who built what was there. I would love to be involved more with the building process. As always I say, just contact me and I will be there with a shovel. You don't want me digging by myself though because...well it will be big, I won't be riding it and you will be, with me standing holding my camera.
I think rather than getting mad we should look at the opportunities and lessons that this provides. I too am from PA and I know of SO many trails that people built and took me on. I think that all trails will continue with this trend of being secret, blowing up and then getting shut down until there is a consistant riding spot for everyone.
Maybe Marks land is the place it needs to happen. I don't know what Marks plans are for his business. If he is planning on running shuttles, how good the shuttle road is. What the grade of the land is, what natural features will make it good, not to mention what kind of input he is willing to allow others to have. I would love to hear more about the land Mark. I would love to hear that you plan to have a series of trails ranging from novice to Pro, something that is accessable every day of the week and has south facing land. Something that maybe has a charge, but that is a minimal charge without the requirement of taking classes everytime you go. Mark you could hold the key to keeping DH alive in Colorado if you play your cards right.
Anyhow, everyone calm down, let the anger go and come up with some ideas as to how to fix the situation...for everyone...
I would post some pix, but I don't want to get yelled at (they are cool pix though
)
I have a lot of respect for those that put together the trails, who networked the arrangements and for those who built what was there. I would love to be involved more with the building process. As always I say, just contact me and I will be there with a shovel. You don't want me digging by myself though because...well it will be big, I won't be riding it and you will be, with me standing holding my camera.
I think rather than getting mad we should look at the opportunities and lessons that this provides. I too am from PA and I know of SO many trails that people built and took me on. I think that all trails will continue with this trend of being secret, blowing up and then getting shut down until there is a consistant riding spot for everyone.
Maybe Marks land is the place it needs to happen. I don't know what Marks plans are for his business. If he is planning on running shuttles, how good the shuttle road is. What the grade of the land is, what natural features will make it good, not to mention what kind of input he is willing to allow others to have. I would love to hear more about the land Mark. I would love to hear that you plan to have a series of trails ranging from novice to Pro, something that is accessable every day of the week and has south facing land. Something that maybe has a charge, but that is a minimal charge without the requirement of taking classes everytime you go. Mark you could hold the key to keeping DH alive in Colorado if you play your cards right.
Anyhow, everyone calm down, let the anger go and come up with some ideas as to how to fix the situation...for everyone...
I would post some pix, but I don't want to get yelled at (they are cool pix though
)I never made it out there, but heard about that place many times. That really sucks. The only decent riding I've done on the front range was Gold Hill and that closed a few weeks after I moved out here.
Let's get Mark's spot going. Plan on spending some time up there in the next few months breaking in trails, that are nonexistent at this time. But sounds like some good terrain.
Let's get Mark's spot going. Plan on spending some time up there in the next few months breaking in trails, that are nonexistent at this time. But sounds like some good terrain.
With all due respect, that's easy for you and Transcend to say since you haven't ridden that trail for near ten years. With the other recent DH spots that have been closed, pretty soon the only decent DH around we'll have to pay for. :mumble:snowskilz said:
That trail (and others) existed for years because it was kept on the down low. Broadcasting the existence of a place like that just means one thing - eventually someone will show up there that shouldn't, and it'll get f***ing shut down, as the recent trend proves. The more people that know about it, the better the chance of some d-head ruining it eventually.
This is more depressing than I know how to describe - anyone want to buy a nice DH bike for cheap? Effin bullsheeeyite.
The rest of these posts talk about fixing the problem. You just want to sell your bike? Sure, what is it? Oh sorry, no bullits. TOOLBOX!
EVILTWIN said:
The other posts were about fixing the problem?
I don't see it that way, looked like a bunch of people bashing each other, save the few that talked about offering some appeasement to the landowner by doing some repairs to the property. I don't care what things are like in Canada or Pennsylvania (or anywhere else), because obviously this is Colorado and things are different. Here's a suggestion for fixing the problem - keep obscure trails secret, it's the best way to make sure they don't get closed down.
Selling off my bike was sarcasm...
you should care because obviously there they are doing SOMETHING right!ladge said:
Making the trail impossible to ride(for all) is not the answer. working with land owners and the open space committees is. When the time comes where there actually is a legit dh trail all will be happy, until then we need to work to gether and make it happen
snowskilz said:
Yeah, they're doing something right. I wish things worked like that here, but can you tell me even one example where it has? I can't. The last three significant DH places that have been shut down were due to either people being there that probably shouldn't ( too many people knowing about it ), or someone going to the media and telling them about a pirate trail ( again, too many people knowing about it ).
I'm not saying don't let ANYONE ride these trails, just the ones who aren't responsible. At least try to make sure someone is really down with riding before taking them on one of those trails.
This may be pessimistic, but I really don't have much faith in the open space committee - where's our DH trail they were supposedly looking at building up by Dakota Ridge/Green Mtn to alleviate some of the shuttling pressure? And I'm not willing to take very many people to the privately owned spots I know because I have too much respect for the land owner to bring someone there who will f**k it up or try to sue them if they get hurt.
You know, I wasn't going to post much more on here but I must say that ladge does have the right call in this one. We do have to realize it's different here, no matter how much we dislike it. There was an article in I think last month's Bike magazine about a super famous freeride/dh spot in Kamloops, BC. In that article it talks about the some ridiculous amount of trails that cross private property and the large amount of trespassing that is and has been going on in the past few years. However, it is just now becoming a point of concern and not even a huge issue at that.
If this was the case in Colorado, the trails wouldn't have survived any time at all, as is the case with Idaho Springs. I think one of the biggest issues surrounding it is that land just isn't as precious in Canada as it is here. Have you looked at the population and its density in Canada, even in areas such as Kamloops that are populated? It is nothing compared to one of the most rapidly growing areas in the US: Denver and the front range. Land is simply too highly prized here.
It's unfortunate but that's just the way it is and we're gonna have to deal with it until we are more widely recognized as a legitimate and responsible group. I think that Kent Setsma and his gang may have a good thing going with the open space deal. That would be huge!!!! So anyone that can(unfortunately not me) should show up to the meeting tomorrow at the Denver Spoke. Then maybe we can finally take a step in the right direction and hopefully one day get to where places like Cali, and Canada and everywhere but here are.
Sorry for the long post.
If this was the case in Colorado, the trails wouldn't have survived any time at all, as is the case with Idaho Springs. I think one of the biggest issues surrounding it is that land just isn't as precious in Canada as it is here. Have you looked at the population and its density in Canada, even in areas such as Kamloops that are populated? It is nothing compared to one of the most rapidly growing areas in the US: Denver and the front range. Land is simply too highly prized here.
It's unfortunate but that's just the way it is and we're gonna have to deal with it until we are more widely recognized as a legitimate and responsible group. I think that Kent Setsma and his gang may have a good thing going with the open space deal. That would be huge!!!! So anyone that can(unfortunately not me) should show up to the meeting tomorrow at the Denver Spoke. Then maybe we can finally take a step in the right direction and hopefully one day get to where places like Cali, and Canada and everywhere but here are.
Sorry for the long post.
You know, I was gonna stay out of this, but I think i shoudl way in now.
I live in boulder for just over 4 years. I rode trails that have since been closed. It is sad to hear of them closing, but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with too many people in this case (gold h ill did...that town has some angry angry people living in it).
This time it was a case of irresponsible trail building. Maybe it wasn't even his landm who knows. He did however ask not to have them there, and his property had part of the trail on it. Were someone to crash and sue, chances are he would have had to pay large legal defense bills for an accident on a stunt that wasn't even (possibly) on his property. If you cannot see his side of things, even if he was dead wrong, you are blind.
Working with landowners is the key to keeping trails open, making them private and not allowing others to ride them is not. I know all about the trail issues and multiuse issues in Boulder and here in Canada. We have an easier time here due to the lack of people not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions, but we still work with landowners and local govt to make things happen.
Full disclosure and cooperation is the key, not privacy, piracy, exclusion and finger pointing.
I live in boulder for just over 4 years. I rode trails that have since been closed. It is sad to hear of them closing, but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with too many people in this case (gold h ill did...that town has some angry angry people living in it).
This time it was a case of irresponsible trail building. Maybe it wasn't even his landm who knows. He did however ask not to have them there, and his property had part of the trail on it. Were someone to crash and sue, chances are he would have had to pay large legal defense bills for an accident on a stunt that wasn't even (possibly) on his property. If you cannot see his side of things, even if he was dead wrong, you are blind.
Working with landowners is the key to keeping trails open, making them private and not allowing others to ride them is not. I know all about the trail issues and multiuse issues in Boulder and here in Canada. We have an easier time here due to the lack of people not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions, but we still work with landowners and local govt to make things happen.
Full disclosure and cooperation is the key, not privacy, piracy, exclusion and finger pointing.
There was an interesting post on NSMB.com the other day about loose cannons having to work within the system on the North Shore. Sure there are a ton of trails on the North Shore but they would not have survived if it were not for the NSMBA, a club that maintains all the trails there. Now, I know the CDCC is not going to build a bunch of trails the first year, but if we could get just one I think it would be packed all the time. Everyone here knows our sport is not going to just fade away and everyone here also knows that our user group is more dedicated to trail building than any of the other user groups. I think if JeffCo were to unleash us on a piece of land they would be astounded by how many people would show up to build. I suspect that JeffCo already knows that one trail is not the solution, and that if we show them what a huge success it will be then we will have the doors opened for a lot more.
Well I wouldn't expect Jeffco to just unleash us up there. Yes they may give us the oppurtunity to build a trail up there but I'm sure it will be a one or two trail policy and will be structured in much the same manner as it takes to get a new trail at a ski resort where everything has to be approved in some form or another. The understanding needs to be made that if Jeffco says no unorganized digging and spidering of trails, that's the way it needs to be. The first time someone shows up and builds bridges, spiders trails or anything like that, our cause will be dead and we will lose any trust given to us by the biggest land provider around here.
Like Transcend said, cooperation will be key.
Like Transcend said, cooperation will be key.
I like hearing these ideas somewhat, but then again it chaps my arse that things couldn't be that simple here as well, after all I think we just all want to ride. I'm sure if the people who built the stunts could turn time back, we'd all rather have the trail to ride stunt free than no trail like we have now.Transcend said:
My only question maybe you or sskilz can shed some light on - how does full disclosure and cooperation protect against any landowner liability for someone who gets hurt on their property and wants to sue? How does that prevent someone who doesn't know the rules and regs the landowner wants followed, and take up trail improvement on their own? The only way I can figure, is by only showing trails to people who are responsible for their own actions, check with other riders on the trail, and won't run to the newspaper trying to get some coverage for whatever reasons.
And yes, the I.S. trail appears to have been closed due to stunt building. But that trail existed for years without the stunts. Too me, it seems like more and more people were finding out about it until someone found out about it and decided to perform "track editor" on the trail and effed it for all of us. Maybe if people were more selective as to who they shared the trail with, that wouldn't have happened, but I guess I can't really prove that.
Like everyone is saying, no reason to kick a dead horse for bucking...I guess some of us just view things differently...I remember when trail closures and such was something California and other places had to deal with and I felt lucky, now the trend has infiltrated CO.
I'm not suggesting that we be unsupervised building whatever we want. I would not expect any giant roads gaps. For that reason stuff like IS will have to continue. What I hope is that when we are offered something to do that benefits our user group that it turns out to be a success and we can show JeffCo that we are willing to work for trails of our own.
man this sucks ass, everything godd is getting shut down in colorado from the shops to the trials im going to cry
I can only imagine. A run built for DH on the front range....probably something wide open...bermed and some 30ft tucked in the breeze tables. Would almost be able to ride year round, no uphill traffic...