[MMcG]

Okay I'm currently driving a somewhat beat up Ford Windstar Minivan and I'd like to replace it with something new and bike/kid/dog friendly.

Problem is I'm "under water" if you will on the Van - long story that goes way back to the vehicle prior to the Mini-van and the separation with my wife leaving me with the Minivan and her with the tiny SUV.

Should I be looking for a new vehicle that offers a big cash back incentive to help me to make up the negative equity that I have in my van? If so, what are some good bike/kid/friendly vehicles that are offering some killer incentive deals?

Saturn has some $3K cash back programs going
A few other companies have $2.5K cash back programs going
Subaru - basically no incentive programs going that are worth much at all.

Have any of you been in a situation like this and what did you end up doing about it?

Should I just keep driving the Windstar and live with it?

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Contact your local Ford dealer.. There are a TON of incentives out there right now for 04 models. Actually for the FreeStar (Windstar's replacement) there was a $5000 rebate that ended 8/2, but they probably continued or upped it. I would confirm for you, but I only have immediate access to Lincoln & Mercury rebate at my finger tips. Not to mention there is probably a small $500 or so loyalty rebate if you trade your Windstar.

If you can swing it, now is a great time to buy a new car.

 

[binary visions]

How much do you still owe on the minivan? When do you plan on having it paid off?

New cars are fun and all, but getting out from under a car payment that you are upside-down on can end up being expensive...

 

[Fathead]

"under water" = upside down (loan balance > vehicle value).

Been there, done that (trucks and Chevy's will do that to young guys). First time (a truck) I held on until the wholesale value was just below my loan payoff. Got a dealer to pay it off in trade toward a car that was only slightly overpriced (top of my credit union's loan value). It's not a great escape route, but it's an escape nonetheless. You might be able to leverage something similar with a heavily incentivized new purchase. To avoid being upside down again, go for a shorter loan period (36 mos, 48 max).

Second time (the Z28, go figure) I waited until I could sell it to an individual for the payoff amount. This was a much better scenario. Separating the crappy sale from the new car purchase enabled me to get a MUCH better deal on the new car.

I usually have to F**K up at least 2x before I learn. . . but I do eventually learn. This one I'm PAYING OFF!

Good luck!

 

[douglas]

I have been meaning to ask when is your inspection up? That thing is not gonna pass!

 

[MMcG]

How much do you still owe on the minivan? When do you plan on having it paid off?

I owe much more than what I'd get for it in trade or what I could sell it for on my own let's leave it at that. Couple more years to pay it off.

I was thinking of a new hatchback type vehicle with a cash back incentive program or perhaps a 2wd pickup with a cash back incentive program.

There is a $4,500 cash back incentive on a new Ford Freestar - but I really don't want another minivan again.

The minivan is cool and all because I take the back seat out and can just roll my bike(s) right in back. But I'd like something smaller - yet still functional.

Matrix
Mazda 3 - too new for incentives
Ford Focus - $3K in incenitves
Saturn Ion - $3K in incentives
Pontiac Vibe - maybe incentives
Subie Imprezza - no incentives - but I can get it at invoice through IMBA membership dealio

Anything else I should be considering?

 

[MMcG]

I have been meaning to ask when is your inspection up? That thing is not gonna pass!

Woah what the hell is that new Avatar of yours? I liked your last one a lot better.

I'll have to put some decent money into it to get it to pass inspection - another reason why I wouldn't mind unloading it for something different.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I owe much more than what I'd get for it in trade or what I could sell it for on my own let's leave it at that. Couple more years to pay it off.

I was thinking of a new hatchback type vehicle with a cash back incentive program or perhaps a 2wd pickup with a cash back incentive program.

Pick-ups are always good bang for your buck as far as vehicles go. The Ranger will have very similar rebates attached. If your current vehicle is financed with FMC (Ford Motor Credit) there may also additional rebates available, that you may not be able to research.

 

[MMcG]

Pick-ups are always good bang for your buck as far as vehicles go. The Ranger will have very similar rebates attached. If your current vehicle is financed with FMC (Ford Motor Credit) there may also additional rebates available, that you may not be able to research.

Do you work at a dealership or something?

What are these factory to dealer incentive things - can those help me out too?

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Do you work at a dealership or something?

What are these factory to dealer incentive things - can those help me out too?

Yes I am an Assistant Controller (fancy for accounting manager)for a Lincoln Mercury Dealership. Our group also owns a few Ford stores along with other franchises.

Ford is real big on Customer incentives, more so than direct dealer incentives. Both of which are published on www.kbb.com and edmunds type sites. The only thing you really wouldn't see on those sites is the FMC cash since it is dependent on where you financed your previous car.

 

[MMcG]

Yes I am an Assistant Controller (fancy for accounting manager)for a Lincoln Mercury Dealership. Our group also owns a few Ford stores along with other franchises.

Ford is real big on Customer incentives, more so than direct dealer incentives. Both of which are published on www.kbb.com and edmunds type sites. The only thing you really wouldn't see on those sites is the FMC cash since it is dependent on where you financed your previous car.

My current loan is with the State Employees Federal Credit Union in NYS.

So would financing with Ford Motor Credit, or GMAC etc. etc. actually help me?

 

[MtnBikerChk]

You can't buy a car based on incentives.

Here's how you buy a new car:

1. Figure out how much $$ you can spend (figure monthly payment and downpayment).
2. Use your monthly payment you figured you can afford and back into the selling price based on a 5 year 0% loan (best case) and a 5 year 4.9% (worse case these days)
3. Find a car that you think you can get for that price - including your trade in.

It's easy to get invoice prices for cars - and this time of year dealers are willing to let cars go for invoice - in a lot of cases, less than invoice. They still make money from the dealer.

oh, one more thing - to find a reasonable value on your trade in, go to kbb.com, edmunds.com and nada.org then use a average of the three.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

My current loan is with the State Employees Federal Credit Union in NYS.

So would financing with Ford Motor Credit, or GMAC etc. etc. actually help me?

eh... the incentive I was referring to is an additional $500 if you were trading in your previous car that WAS financed through FMC. Last 1/4 there was some additional cash for new customers to finance through FMC, but that program is not available at the moment.

However it is always a good idea to get a rate from your CU first, then see if the dealership can beat it. Honestly, lately we have been putting customers with outside sources like CU's and banks because they are starving for business so badly, they are being more competitive than FMC. That way we can usually get a low rate + the incentives for the customer.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

You can't buy a car based on incentives.

Some incentives right now are topping $4,000 you need to include that along with the rest of the advice she just gave.

 

[jack123]

I have been meaning to ask when is your inspection up? That thing is not gonna pass!

off topic, but dude. that avatar is crazy. i saw that guy on the news. he lost like 500 lbs or something. thats pretty cruel.

 

[MMcG]

Some incentives right now are topping $4,000 you need to include that along with the rest of the advice she just gave.

Yep.

I would do all the prep work MBC cited - get them as close to invoice as possible - the incentives are there for me to hopefully offset some of my negative equity in my POS van.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

It's easy to get invoice prices for cars - and this time of year dealers are willing to let cars go for invoice - in a lot of cases, less than invoice. They still make money from the dealer.

Just wanted to clear up some stuff. We do not always "still" make money. This time of year is the time to buy for sure. 05 Inventory is coming, we can't stop that from happening and once the lot is full of 05's it makes it that much harder to sell 04's. Every day a piece of inventory sits is money lost, so as a dealer, quite often we will sell a car at a loss.

oh, one more thing - to find a reasonable value on your trade in, go to kbb.com, edmunds.com and nada.org then use a average of the three.

Excellent advice. I personally prefer KBB over Edmunds (dont know why, maybe the shorter url?) Anyway their trade in tool is very useful, but make sure to use it as they suggest, if you are trading in your car, make sure to click "Trade-In" value and do the "rate your condition" or whatever its equivalent is. The most common misconception is everyone thinks their car is in "excellent" condition. Which unfortunately is just not the case.


Good luck.

 

[MMcG]

My van is in far from excellent condition - more like scratched, dented and beat to crap.

 

[genpowell71]

I will tell you one thing that helped me out time and time again. If you decide to trade it in, find a loan institution that will pre approve you for financing. This makes it easier to go into the dealer and make them work for you. If you already have a loan waiting, they'll bend over backwards to help you out. As far as the trade in goes, it's all a matter of finding the right place to help you out. get online and look at the different car companies to see what they have in rebates and incentives. But whatever you do, STAY AWAY from Bill heard dealers. They've been cited as one of the most crooked dealers in the country.

 

[Mike B.]

To contradict some others, rule number one in a large (depreciating value) purchase is DO NOT BASE THE PURCHASE ON A MONTHLY PAYMENT BASIS! Figure out what you're willing to spend sure, but over the long term total value of the loan. Car loans stretch out as long as 72 months these days yielding very small monthly payments but costing you big in the long run. That is a sure way to end up upside down again. Determine the maximum you are willing to pay and at what interest rate and work backwards. Think about the interest rate in a cost of capital type of mentality, particularly when longer terms are figured in. Most people end up taking the low payment because they can't afford the higher monthly cost but loose sight of how far in the hole they just put themselves and are basically too ignorant to realize when they're being taken.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

To contradict some others, rule number one in a large (depreciating value) purchase is DO NOT BASE THE PURCHASE ON A MONTHLY PAYMENT BASIS! Figure out what you're willing to spend sure, but over the long term total value of the loan. Car loans stretch out as long as 72 months these days yielding very small monthly payments but costing you big in the long run. That is a sure way to end up upside down again. Determine the maximum you are willing to pay and at what interest rate and work backwards. Think about the interest rate in a cost of capital type of mentality, particularly when longer terms are figured in. Most people end up taking the low payment because they can't afford the higher monthly cost but loose sight of how far in the hole they just put themselves and are basically too ignorant to realize when they're being taken.

Nobody said base the purchase on monthly payments.

I'm not talking about going into the dealer and blindly buying a car based on monthly payments and not knowing the price of the car - it's only to help you determine what you can afford/want to spend.

I want a BMW but I know I couldn't afford the monthly payments.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Just wanted to clear up some stuff. We do not always "still" make money. This time of year is the time to buy for sure. 05 Inventory is coming, we can't stop that from happening and once the lot is full of 05's it makes it that much harder to sell 04's. Every day a piece of inventory sits is money lost, so as a dealer, quite often we will sell a car at a loss.

dealer holdback?

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

dealer holdback?

Dealer Holdback is also explained on most of those websites, and should also be something you are aware of when you purchase a car. It differs by manufacturer and some do not have dealer holdback. For Ford it is 2%(+an additional 1% if the dealer is Blue Oval certified) of the invoice price and for GM I believe it is 3%. Most foreign manufacturers do no use "holdback."

When I say we sell things at a loss, I mean a REAL selling loss, after all the accounting is said and done on that per unit basis we lose money. Especially this time of year. Obviously we try to make that happen as in frequently as possible, but believe me it happens.

FYI.... you sure you can't afford a BMW, I can arrange something for ya?

www.Holmanauto.com

pick out something you like, then PM me.

 

[I Are Baboon]

FYI.... you sure you can't afford a BMW, I can arrange something for ya?

www.Holmanauto.com

pick out something you like, then PM me.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I am not in sales, so I its not Spam

 

[I Are Baboon]

I am not in sales, so I its not Spam

It's not spam I am worried about, it's MBC spending my money.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

I am not in sales, so I its not Spam

lol he's telling you not to offer me the bmw

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

It's not spam I am worried about, it's MBC spending my money.

I guess we shouldn't discuss the PM I just received asking for a Trade in value ?

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Just pick a color and option package and let me know...

:evil:

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Just pick a color and option package and let me know...

how'd you know?

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

how'd you know?

They are VERY sweet, and equally very expensive. However a friend of mine just got the X3 and I gotta say I like. Interior bike rack available, can fit at least 2 with the rear seat down, not to mention hitch option. And for a BMW reasonably priced.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

They are VERY sweet, and equally very expensive. However a friend of mine just got the X3 and I gotta say I like. Interior bike rack available, can fit at least 2 with the rear seat down, not to mention hitch option. And for a BMW reasonably priced.

ok, get me one of them (actually I read great things about the x3) and I have a homemade interior rack)

 

[I Are Baboon]

I don't think you guys are helping Mark.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I don't think you guys are helping Mark.

Oh dont worry about it. We've got it handled. There is just gonna be some paperwork coming via FedEx. Just sign sign sign, then I am gonna deliver your new Vehicle to ya, and you guys are gonna show me and my Heckler around CT.

Who's Mark?

 

[golgiaparatus]

Hyundai is making pretty good cars right now... I think you get some cash back and I know for sure that you get 10year 100k driveterain and 60k bumper to bumper. Kia has the same deal because Hyundai bought kia and is making all the cars now. Hyunda has an SUV called the SantaFe that is very nice and Kia has the Sorrento which is equally nice.

Mitsubishi usually has cash back programs as well.

Okay I'm currently driving a somewhat beat up Ford Windstar Minivan and I'd like to replace it with something new and bike/kid/dog friendly.

Problem is I'm "under water" if you will on the Van - long story that goes way back to the vehicle prior to the Mini-van and the separation with my wife leaving me with the Minivan and her with the tiny SUV.

Should I be looking for a new vehicle that offers a big cash back incentive to help me to make up the negative equity that I have in my van? If so, what are some good bike/kid/friendly vehicles that are offering some killer incentive deals?

Saturn has some $3K cash back programs going
A few other companies have $2.5K cash back programs going
Subaru - basically no incentive programs going that are worth much at all.

Have any of you been in a situation like this and what did you end up doing about it?

Should I just keep driving the Windstar and live with it?

 

[MtnBikerChk]

I don't think you guys are helping Mark.

sorry mark

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Hyundai is making pretty good cars right now... I think you get some cash back and I know for sure that you get 10year 100k driveterain and 60k bumper to bumper. Kia has the same deal because Hyundai bought kia and is making all the cars now. Hyunda has an SUV called the SantaFe that is very nice and Kia has the Sorrento which is equally nice.

Mitsubishi usually has cash back programs as well.

If you are on a budget I strongly agree with what he just said. From an insider's perspective the ONLY downside to the Hyundai and Kia products right now is the resale value (and "bling" value if that matters to you). But if you are gonna drive it til it dies, not really too big of an issue anyway. You get a lot of vehicle and warranty for the $.

 

[MMcG]

ooh man my thread got seriously derailed but that's fine by me.

Hey MTB_Rob - hook me up with a Saturn or something and I'll give you a tour of Case Mountain, Nepaug STate Forest, and then we'll shoot over to Nam - your Heckler would rock the house in all three places.

Now.....how's about that hookup!

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

ooh man my thread got seriously derailed but that's fine by me.

Hey MTB_Rob - hook me up with a Saturn or something and I'll give you a tour of Case Mountain, Nepaug STate Forest, and then we'll shoot over to Nam - your Heckler would rock the house in all three places.

Now.....how's about that hookup!

Well the Saturn store is in NJ, so if it is close to you and something you are interested in, I can make a call for you. But since I do not have any personal relationships with any of the MGRs there, you could probably do just as well by beating up your local dealer.

 

[MMcG]

Well the Saturn store is in NJ, so if it is close to you and something you are interested in, I can make a call for you. But since I do not have any personal relationships with any of the MGRs there, you could probably do just as well by beating up your local dealer.

I might just do that - I wonder how bike friendly a Saturn Ion is though.