[BigMike]

So, I was just riding my RMX to go drop off the rent thinking about nothing, just kinda riding along. I came to a patch of ice, and hit the front brake, just for fun. I found a perfect sweet spot in my brakes where when there was ice it would roll, and when it had grip, it would stop. If felt like the pulse in the brake pedal of a car when the Anti locks come on.

That got me to thinking, would anti lock bike brakes be of any use at all?

I personally think they would be cool to play with, but would never get them. I like to be able to lock up the back wheel when needed.

E-Speculation anyone?

 

[ncrider]

I personally think they would be cool to play with, but would never get them. I like to be able to lock up the back wheel when needed.

No offense, but I think you killed it with that. Oh, and I agree.

 

[zedro]

i think anyone with anti-lock mtb brakes would have the words 'weiner-boy' thrown his way every so often...

 

[merrrrjig]

I dont think It would work

 

[MikeD]

Well, I'd assume you'd need a bunch of sensors and stuff, and a power source for it all... and there's the fact that it's completely undesirable for a racing application.

MX bikes don't have ABS; I don't think race cars do, either...ABS is just there to save your ass when you jam the brakes on in a panic situation driving on the road. You can't control the vehicle/bike as well when they come on automatically. I know some street motos have them, though (and the BMWRS1150GS, a semi-offroad bike, allows you to turn them off for off-pavement use.)

 

[me89]

to much computer **** on a bike.keep it simple stupid (kiss method) not calling you stupid but when computers start to get on bikes **** starts to brake more and more and stuff becomes way to expensive it would be cool though. it would make the crazy icy sections in the middle of winter a little bit more easy.

 

[rvlacich]

They do have those stupid squishy noodles that they put on the front v-brakes on hybrids to prevent people from tossing themselves over the bars.

As for real bikes, I don't know who would want them. Most people are pretty good at modulating their brakes when they need to modulate. I would like ABS in my car, but not in my bike. When driving, it is difficult to know exactly what is underneath the wheels, but with a bike, I know when my front tire is sitting on ice/water/mud and I can brake accordingly.

 

[Paris]

So, I was just riding my RMX to go drop off the rent thinking about nothing, just kinda riding along. I came to a patch of ice, and hit the front brake, just for fun. I found a perfect sweet spot in my brakes where when there was ice it would roll, and when it had grip, it would stop. If felt like the pulse in the brake pedal of a car when the Anti locks come on.

That got me to thinking, would anti lock bike brakes be of any use at all?

I personally think they would be cool to play with, but would never get them. I like to be able to lock up the back wheel when needed.

E-Speculation anyone?

Uh Mike, like just ride your bike okay?

Glad to hear you got the RMX!

 

[SuperJ]

over the summer some tool came into the shop i work at and brought his abs equiped hardtail. he designed it and was hoping we would want to carry it. the thing got installed inbetween the front and rear housing and when you pulled either brake the front engaged slightly and the rear did to. no matter how hard i pulled on the brake the front wouldnt throw me over, but when you pulled both levers the brakes wouldnt work. they wouldnt move. the thing was a pos and when the guy left we threw away the sample he left with us.

 

[Rik]

The question is WHY? I don't know if ABS will allow you to control a nose wheelie, or let you lock up the rear to induce a slide... sure, it'd be great for some conditions, but if you can't ride with control of your braking, you shouldn't let yourself get in to situations where you'd think ABS would help.
Plus, anyway... random brake lockups due to change of surface make for fun riding, I love being on the verge of out of control :love:

 

[caputo1989]

They would need to be this big
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ok I'm board... all the way until 00 ......................................................................................................

 

[Rik]

You're bored?
Tell me what the bottom of this page says...

 

[RideND]

I got to 1227, how far does it go?

 

[SuperJ]

it doesnt end

 

[zane]

Whenever I drive an ABS equipped car and the roads get slick I end up scared of the abs "pedal disconnect" more than the tires slipping. On a bike it would be worthless- if your tires are going to slip enough to need ABS then you're probably gonna fall over anyway........

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Passenger cars are designed never to break traction... bikes do it all the time, a lot of the time it's deliberate. Wouldn't work very well, if at all.

 

[scottishmark]

MX bikes don't have ABS; I don't think race cars do, either...ABS is just there to save your ass when you jam the brakes on in a panic situation driving on the road. You can't control the vehicle/bike as well when they come on automatically. I know some street motos have them, though (and the BMWRS1150GS, a semi-offroad bike, allows you to turn them off for off-pavement use.)

Race cars would have ABS but systems that enchance braking control are banned from all(?) forms of motor racing. BAR tried to introduce some weird front end differential thing this year to, ahem, "increase front end grip" but they were told to f*ck off as it was blatantly ABS-like.

Big Hondas (bikes) and BMWs have ABS and linked brakes these days, but i dont see it ever being a product for our end of the MTB scene (but i bet shimano has a pair on the way for commuter bikes!)



btw, 2900 on that page now

 

[brake_and_bleed]

you can get wee adapters from shimano too fit cheap v-brakes so they dont skid,
very lame!!

 

[hans2]

I have them on my automatic shifting bicycle I bought off late night TV. Both work so well.

I think I'd rather spend a night with Michael Jackson.

 

[binary visions]

I found a perfect sweet spot in my brakes where when there was ice it would roll, and when it had grip, it would stop.

Anyone else find that statement to be weird?

I don't understand how that works. When there's ice, there's less traction, therefore requiring less force to stop the wheel, so it should skid.

The "sweet spot" you're describing should have the opposite affect - when you have grip, the wheel rolls (because it's got enough force to overcome the brakes) and when you're on ice, it should lock up and slide.



Anyway, I would hate ABS on bikes since breaking traction is often part of the control...

 

[Kornphlake]

Anyone else find that statement to be weird?

I don't understand how that works. When there's ice, there's less traction, therefore requiring less force to stop the wheel, so it should skid.

The "sweet spot" you're describing should have the opposite affect - when you have grip, the wheel rolls (because it's got enough force to overcome the brakes) and when you're on ice, it should lock up and slide.



Anyway, I would hate ABS on bikes since breaking traction is often part of the control...

Maybe what he meant was that he was able to get the wheel to skid without locking up on ice?

I had an idea for a mechanical anti lock device a few years ago. It never went anywhere besides a few rough sketches because I came to the conclusion that if a car begins to skid you loose control and crash, if a bike starts into a skid it's much easier to recover, or if you're out of control enough to crash anti lock wouldn't really be any benefit because you'd crash anyway. There's really no benefit to anti-lock on a bike, traction control and steering assist may be useful though.

 

[Westy]

Back in the days of cantilever rim brakes someone came up with a pad that would make it very hard to lock up a wheel. Instead of static pads two rubber rollers were place with the axis of rotation just slightly offset from the rim tangent. The idea was that at high speed they would act like regular brake pads but when the wheel slowed down the rollers would start to roll preventing lock up. Needless to say they never really worked.

 

[mobius]

Screw ABS bike brakes i love locking my brakes through turns (yes i ride really weird)

 

[Transcend]

Shimano developed those way back, like 95/96. They were actually rim brakes, with 2 rollers for friction placed at angles. They didn't work so well.

 

[MikeD]

Screw ABS bike brakes i love locking my brakes through turns (yes i ride really weird)

I bet your trails love it, too.

Stop riding that way.

MD

 

[Sir_Crackien]

hey SuperJ where those brake made by gremica. if us they have been making those things for years. those were not designed with abs in mind. also if they are anything like deore hydros they require a looong break-in. it was a cool idea when they came out but i think they have since stopped making them.

 

[Sir_Crackien]

also mike where in the he!! do you come up with these crazy ideas/posts? 8)

 

[go-ride.com]

I think ABS on the front would be good. You could use the front brake in places that you normally can't. Like slick mud or late into a corner. It would also save a lot of newbies from front end slide outs. The system would have to be super sensitive due to really work in bad conditions

On the rear ABS wouldn't work for racing. Being able to instantly changes direction from momentarily locking the rear brake is key for going fast.

 

[OGRipper]

I think it's not a bad idea for hybrids or "comfort" bikes or whatever they call them these days - for noobs and people who will never care about performance. But personally I wouldn't want 'em anywhere near my own bikes.

 

[AlberTop]

What about front only ABS...

Just kidding. I agree you will probabily fall before ABS is effective.

But using some type of electronis in DH is a question of time. Active suspension...

 

[zedro]

But using some type of electronis in DH is a question of time. Active suspension...

might want to wait until it hits the automotive market first....

 

[S.G.D]

just get a set of Vbrakes off a low end hybird. they come with this damper on the "noodle" that doesn't allow the brakes to lock up. tektro baby.

 

[OGRipper]

might want to wait until it hits the automotive market first....

Didn't the infiniti Q45 come with active suspension? I remember reading about it and thinking how it would be cool to have some kind of active extender to combat brake dive. You would want a separate circuit or something so the fork could stay active but it's probably somewhere down the road...

And anyway waiting is for followers, not pioneers. Zedro, why didn't you wait for someone else to make your bike?

 

[MikeD]

might want to wait until it hits the automotive market first....

K2 smartshock, baby.

 

[Westy]

What about front only ABS...

Just kidding. I agree you will probabily fall before ABS is effective.

But using some type of electronis in DH is a question of time. Active suspension...

K2 Smartshock anyone. The whole thing failed but I think it was due to applying it wrong. They had low compression damping for slow speed stuff and stiffened things up for bigger hits. I think it could make for a great shock if tuned properly. Of course tuning it would require some kind of a PC connection, not something your average rider would want to do but could work for factory race types, integrate the whole thing into a data collection system.

 

[zedro]

Didn't the infiniti Q45 come with active suspension? I remember reading about it and thinking how it would be cool to have some kind of active extender to combat brake dive. You would want a separate circuit or something so the fork could stay active but it's probably somewhere down the road...

And anyway waiting is for followers, not pioneers. Zedro, why didn't you wait for someone else to make your bike?

ok, that last line makes zero sense...anyways.

there isnt a truly active suspension, but of course the definition may be manipulated (ie. reactive, or semi-active). I think the McLaren hydrolic levelling suspension system that they used one year would count as active, but not really as suspension (it kept the chassis level to the ground at an exact ride height to maintain perfect aerodynamics).

 

[Westy]

K2 smartshock, baby.

Bastard ya beat me to it.

 

[OGRipper]

ok, that last line makes zero sense...anyways.

Maybe but I'm just a mud head so whaddaya expect? Seriously, it was just kind of surprising to me that you would suggest waiting for someone else to develop something. As for "truly active" the infiniti (as I recall) had extenders at each wheel to counteract roll, but it still allowed the wheels to absorb bumps...I could be wrong but I think it was one of the first few years they made the q45. I don't normally pay attention to cars at all but it stuck in my head as something that was pretty cool. I have no idea if they still have it...

Basically this is about a random and vague memory with no facts backing it up, so it should suffice as the word of god for purposes of RM.

 

[zedro]

Seriously, it was just kind of surprising to me that you would suggest waiting for someone else to develop something.

i didnt 'suggest' it, i was trying to highlight the technical hurdles involved; ie. if you dont see it broadly in the auto industry, chances are the tech is way too far out to even be considered for our application.

this isnt the type of the thing you can just will to happen.

 

[OGRipper]

i didnt 'suggest' it, i was trying to highlight the technical hurdles involved; ie. if you dont see it broadly in the auto industry, chances are the tech is way too far out to even be considered for our application.

this isnt the type of the thing you can just will to happen.

Wow, splitting hairs much? You said "might want to wait..." That's not a suggestion?

Can't you ever pull back on something you said? Or maybe you really believe that nobody should try to run with an idea that nobody else has developed?

I've got two Maudite's chillin' in my fridge, I think we could both use one. Wish you were here.