[formermtboarder]

damn

im so tired of gettin religious dribble at 7 am, especially from mormons, who seem to be the ones who want to save my soul the most. anyone care to explain why they do this, and how to stop them, i mean i live ion the middle of nowhere and they still come up our driveway and knock on our door. HOW DO U MAKE THEM REALIZE YOU DONT CARE WHAT THEY THINK?!?!?!

 

[lonewolfe]

Go to the door naked and if that doesn't work then introduce them to a shotgun.

 

[kidwoo]

They're trying to teach you punctuation.

I remember when I learned english.........ahh those were the days.

 

[downhilldemon]

just kindly let them know. Im mormon and know that they shouldnt keep bugging you. If all else fails theyre just trying to help you so use them for odd jobs. Their free and reliable!

 

[formermtboarder]

They're trying to teach you punctuation.

I remember when I learned english.........ahh those were the days.

I apoligize for my inferior grammer/syntax, i must have been thinking i was on a forum website or something , my bad!

no but seriously, its a bad habit, sry

 

[formermtboarder]

just kindly let them know. Im mormon and know that they shouldnt keep bugging you. If all else fails theyre just trying to help you so use them for odd jobs. Their free and reliable!

hell ya!

they can fix my run down jumps

but for real, they'll do that? like no questions asked they'll just do stuff for you..i saw this on a south park.............

 

[downhilldemon]

just try and say youd be open to talking while working on your jumps. I would hope that their pretty cool people and would think your jumps are pretty cool.

 

[blue]

Tell them you've been excommunicated from the church and they'll run like hell.

(ex-mo hewe)

 

[Andyman_1970]

Ask them to explain the Jewish Mikvah to you.......

 

[Andyman_1970]

Then ask them to explain the goddess mother to you..........

 

[MMike]

"drivel"

 

[valve bouncer]

In this and all things let Kevin Bloody Wilson be your spiritual guide...
"Well I'd love ter invite ya in yaknow but the joints a f*cken mess
There's an orgy ragin in the lounge and every c*nts undressed
And I'd love ya to meet the missus, Shirl, but she's a bit crook in bed
She says she's got a real sore threat from givin too much head"
http://www.lyricskeeper.com/kevin_bloody_wilson-lyrics/227838-festival_of_light-lyrics.htm

 

[Archslater]

My wife enjoys asking them about their views on women's roles in the church. I think that has shut them up.

 

[reflux]

Then ask them to explain the goddess mother to you..........

Then he should ask them how they know Kevin Bacon...

 

[-dustin]

i enjoy talking to them when they visit me. the last 2 i talked to knew a Mormon friend of mine (one was actually at the wedding), and they were familiar with Mike Wilson.

 

[blue]

My wife enjoys asking them about their views on women's roles in the church. I think that has shut them up.

The Mormons and the Musilms have a thing for male dominance...It's a major thing I have against both faiths. Growing up Mormon SUCKED.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

It's also interesting all the parallels between the two faiths...Private revalations by an angel of light, new scripture that changes all of the old scripture, the lack of Deity in Christ, the fact that you have to work to get into Heaven, the redefinition of Chrisitanity and it's terms. There are hundreds more, roncarlson.com has some relly great info on the Mormon Church. If you really want to see them get excited, tell them you will convert as soon as they can show you a map from the book of mormon...they will run for their bishop and learn a little fact about the "historical accuracy" of mormonism; there isn't any.

 

[Transcend]

Wow, pot meet kettle.

 

[kinghami3]

It's also interesting all the parallels between the two faiths...Private revalations by an angel of light, new scripture that changes all of the old scripture, the lack of Deity in Christ, the fact that you have to work to get into Heaven, the redefinition of Chrisitanity and it's terms. There are hundreds more, roncarlson.com has some relly great info on the Mormon Church. If you really want to see them get excited, tell them you will convert as soon as they can show you a map from the book of mormon...they will run for their bishop and learn a little fact about the "historical accuracy" of mormonism; there isn't any.

One of the better summaries I've ever read.

 

[downhilldemon]

It's also interesting all the parallels between the two faiths...Private revalations by an angel of light, new scripture that changes all of the old scripture, the lack of Deity in Christ, the fact that you have to work to get into Heaven, the redefinition of Chrisitanity and it's terms. There are hundreds more, roncarlson.com has some relly great info on the Mormon Church. If you really want to see them get excited, tell them you will convert as soon as they can show you a map from the book of mormon...they will run for their bishop and learn a little fact about the "historical accuracy" of mormonism; there isn't any.

have you read the book of mormon? If not i wouldnt reccomend stating that it is untrue because you have no clue what your talking bout!

 

[formermtboarder]

isnt the story something rediclously rediclous about joseph smith finding gold plates in a field? and then he translates them..and then he is asked to retranslate them and comes up w/ a diffrent version? somethiong like that anyway..downhilldemon ur welcome to correct any inaccuracys


finally wasnt there something about jesus preaching in the americas too? strange....

 

[downhilldemon]

isnt the story something rediclously rediclous about joseph smith finding gold plates in a field? and then he translates them..and then he is asked to retranslate them and comes up w/ a diffrent version? somethiong like that anyway..downhilldemon ur welcome to correct any inaccuracys


finally wasnt there something about jesus preaching in the americas too? strange....

not really. The book of mormon is all about the history of the american people. It talks about the lamanites and Nephites and how they got to america and what was going on their. The Book of mormon starts out before christ's birth and goes through his death where he comes to the america's and preaches. The joseph smith histry talks about joseph smith. The actual book of mormon never does. Ive never heard anything about him having to retranslate the book. He translated it once but the joseph smith history goes through his visions and everything he saw.
So theres everything i have to add. I wouldn t say you def. have inaccuracies just misunderstandings. even i dont know everything about my own religion!

 

[formermtboarder]

all about the history of the american people. It talks about the lamanites and Nephites and how they got to america and what was going on their

history-like native american history?
lamanites and nephites-JIGGA WHAT?!?

The Book of mormon starts out before christ's birth and goes through his death where he comes to the america's and preaches.

comes to the americas how? and preaches to who?
There was no christianity in the americas until the spanish in the 1500's...
these r serious questions-not trying to make fun i just dont get (i really dont get christianity for that matter--'rise from the dead after 3 days'--weird...)

 

[Changleen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_inerrancy

Idiots.

 

[Andyman_1970]

have you read the book of mormon? If not i wouldnt reccomend stating that it is untrue because you have no clue what your talking bout!

I take it you're Mormon??

 

[Andyman_1970]

not really. The book of mormon is all about the history of the american people.

I understand that the BoM speaks of a “lost” tribe of Israel that came to North America and even built a “mirror” of Solomon’s Temple…….if this is in fact correct, where is the archeological evidence? A structure of that size and scale would undoubtedly have left behind evidence.

It talks about the lamanites and Nephites and how they got to america and what was going on their.

Who are these people and please give me chapter and verse from the Hebrew Scriptures (that would be the Old Testament) of where they are, or were, part of the nation of Israel.

The Book of mormon starts out before christ's birth and goes through his death where he comes to the america's and preaches.

Now, remember the concept of Messiah (which is what the Greek word for Christ means) is of Hebrew origins, everything Jesus did had it’s basis in the Old Testament (remember He was a Torah observant Jew, if He wasn’t then He’d be a false Messiah according to the Old Testament)……..so please show me from the Old Testament that part of the Messiah’s “mission” was to visit the America’s?

Ive never heard anything about him having to retranslate the book.

The Book of Mormon contains the same grammatical errors in “similar” passages as does the King James Version of it’s day. The multitude of these “similar” errors (passages in which only one or two words were changed) present quite a bit of evidence that portions of the BoM was plagiarized from that particular edition of the King James Bible.

He translated it once but the joseph smith history goes through his visions and everything he saw.

Do you consider Him to be a prophet of God?

even i dont know everything about my own religion!

I would respectfully suggest you study from an objective historical perspective not from Mormon sources.

 

[face]

I would respectfully suggest you study from an objective historical perspective not from Mormon sources.

i would respectfully suggest you do the same. just out of curiosity have you read the book of mormon or even the introduction? i think a lot of your questions would be answered but i dont want to come off as the crazy mormon that preaches in internet forums.

 

[Andyman_1970]

just out of curiosity have you read the book of mormon or even the introduction?

Yes I have, I have a copy here right next to my computer. Some nice Mormon missionaries visited me this summer and gave me a copy along with a small blue card with the "17 signs of the true church". Once I explained to them the Hebraic roots of the Christian baptism they haven't been back.

So tell me about this goddess mother thing?

 

[face]

i dont really know anything about it but we have earthly parents so it would only seem natural to have heavenly parents also. is there something wrong about how we baptize?

 

[Andyman_1970]

i dont really know anything about it but we have earthly parents so it would only seem natural to have heavenly parents also.

Realizing that Christianity has it's roots in Judaism (remember Jesus and all the authors of the Christian Bible were Jewish), and was until the late 1st century / early 2nd century considered a sect of Judaism.........with all due respect please tell me where this concept is found in the Hebrew Scriptures and or Jewish tradition?

is there something wrong about how we baptize?

Not really the "how" more like the "why", but that's not what I discussed with them, I just shared with them about the Hebrew mikvah and how that is the "root" of the Christian baptism and what that meant to a 1st century Jew (which Jesus and His disciples were).

 

[face]

it seems to me that you have researched this far more than me. i also regret to say that i have little knowledge of the jewish traditions and beleifs.

 

[downhilldemon]

history-like native american history?
lamanites and nephites-JIGGA WHAT?!?

History of the people hundreds of years before chirst. I dont know exactly what you would call these people. They start out as one family that is sepereated because some of the children are not goog. The "good" ones are the nephites and the "bad" ones are the lamanites.

After his resurection Preaches to the american people. Religion is a tough topic. I am mormon, have read he BOM and really dont know that much about my religion. I know what i need to know but the really indepth stuff even im confused on.

 

[downhilldemon]

I understand that the BoM speaks of a “lost” tribe of Israel that came to North America and even built a “mirror” of Solomon’s Temple…….if this is in fact correct, where is the archeological evidence? A structure of that size and scale would undoubtedly have left behind evidence.
Who are these people and please give me chapter and verse from the Hebrew Scriptures (that would be the Old Testament) of where they are, or were, part of the nation of Israel.
Now, remember the concept of Messiah (which is what the Greek word for Christ means) is of Hebrew origins, everything Jesus did had it’s basis in the Old Testament (remember He was a Torah observant Jew, if He wasn’t then He’d be a false Messiah according to the Old Testament)……..so please show me from the Old Testament that part of the Messiah’s “mission” was to visit the America’s?
The Book of Mormon contains the same grammatical errors in “similar” passages as does the King James Version of it’s day. The multitude of these “similar” errors (passages in which only one or two words were changed) present quite a bit of evidence that portions of the BoM was plagiarized from that particular edition of the King James Bible.
Do you consider Him to be a prophet of God?
I would respectfully suggest you study from an objective historical perspective not from Mormon sources.

i have studied from the Bom and both sections of the bible. you do realize that the mormon gospel is taught from the bible with a further source being the BOM. How would the bible talk about the nephites or lamanites? Youre talking about people across the world, how would they know of each other? I do consider Joseph smith to be a prophet of god. " (passages in which only one or two words were changed)" do you know what passages these are? also why would christ tell the jewish people of his visit to the americas? Jesus mostly told what needed to ne known. I am only 17 so i am not a complete wizz on all of your questions. Im still trying to find out everything that is going on.

 

[Andyman_1970]

it seems to me that you have researched this far more than me. i also regret to say that i have little knowledge of the jewish traditions and beleifs.

I would respectfully suggest spending some time studying the Jewish background to Christianity. Many people read the New Testament, for instance, totally ignoring the Old Testament, the problem is the people who wrote the New Testament used the Old Testament as the Bible...........everything Jesus and the authors of the New Testament say is commentary on the OT, so to fully understand the NT one must understand the OT.

This is my "litmus" test for ideas and doctrines that many times come exclusively from the New Testament, if it can't be substantiated in the Old Testament or in 1st century Jewish tradition, then I believe it to be false Biblically.

 

[Andyman_1970]

i have studied from the Bom and both sections of the bible. you do realize that the mormon gospel is taught from the bible with a further source being the BOM.

Yes I realize that, I also realize that the BoM has no objective historical or archeological evidence to substantiate it’s claims of either a “lost tribe” coming to North America, or of the Messiah making disciples after His resurrection in North America.

How would the bible talk about the nephites or lamanites?

That’s my question, where does the Old Testament speak that the Messiah will “fly around the world” and make disciples on another continent? He specifically gives that duty to His disciples in Jerusalem, why would they need to do that if He’s just going to fly around and do it for them?

I do consider Joseph smith to be a prophet of god.

I would respectfully suggest you read Deuteronomy 13 and 18 with regards to prophets who speak and what they speak of does not come to pass. I would also suggest you use this on Mr. Young and the rest of the LDS prophets.

If Mr. Smith is God’s spokesman why would he say things that contradict God? He indicated that African Americans were not human, now this is a stance that the LDS later reversed, but none the less, this is a self proclaimed prophet of God that speaks about other humans in a way contrary to what God says about humans. Jesus taught that all humans are precious to God (John 3:16), that to hate another human is to commit murder (Matthew 5) and not unconditionally loving others reveals that one does not love God (1 John 4). So how can Mr. Smith be a true prophet of God, if the ideas he had are contrary to what the Bible says? How can he be a true prophet of God if he was disrespectful to humans created in the image of God?

also why would christ tell the jewish people of his visit to the americas?

This is where I would suggest you study what it means to be the disciple of a 1st century Rabbi (which Jesus was). Being a disciple means that your whole life is centered around, learning what your rabbi knows (in this case Jesus), doing what your rabbi does, so you can become like your rabbi (Paul speaks of being conformed into the image of the Messiah). So with this in mind, why would Jesus not tell these 12 disciples, whose whole lives are centered on doing what their rabbi did, why would He leave out such an important detail like going to another continent? Again the concept does not line up with the historical and cultural context of Jesus day.

This is not meant to encite a theological "gun fight" but hopefully be some food for thought for you............feel free to holler at me if you have any questions...........

 

[JRogers]

Yes I realize that, I also realize that the BoM has no objective historical or archeological evidence to substantiate it’s claims of either a “lost tribe” coming to North America, or of the Messiah making disciples after His resurrection in North America.

Perhaps no different than the lack of empirical/objective evidence for the exodus from Egypt or the Resurrection or the divine birth or any number of other things. If we're going to get hung up on historicity and empirical data as a test for religious truth, few religions will get very far.

That’s my question, where does the Old Testament speak that the Messiah will “fly around the world” and make disciples on another continent? He specifically gives that duty to His disciples in Jerusalem, why would they need to do that if He’s just going to fly around and do it for them?

I would respectfully suggest you read Deuteronomy 13 and 18 with regards to prophets who speak and what they speak of does not come to pass. I would also suggest you use this on Mr. Young and the rest of the LDS prophets.

If Mr. Smith is God’s spokesman why would he say things that contradict God? He indicated that African Americans were not human, now this is a stance that the LDS later reversed, but none the less, this is a self proclaimed prophet of God that speaks about other humans in a way contrary to what God says about humans. Jesus taught that all humans are precious to God (John 3:16), that to hate another human is to commit murder (Matthew 5) and not unconditionally loving others reveals that one does not love God (1 John 4). So how can Mr. Smith be a true prophet of God, if the ideas he had are contrary to what the Bible says? How can he be a true prophet of God if he was disrespectful to humans created in the image of God?

This is where I would suggest you study what it means to be the disciple of a 1st century Rabbi (which Jesus was). Being a disciple means that your whole life is centered around, learning what your rabbi knows (in this case Jesus), doing what your rabbi does, so you can become like your rabbi (Paul speaks of being conformed into the image of the Messiah). So with this in mind, why would Jesus not tell these 12 disciples, whose whole lives are centered on doing what their rabbi did, why would He leave out such an important detail like going to another continent? Again the concept does not line up with the historical and cultural context of Jesus day.

The idea that something is not true based on its omission in a source is not good enough. And to pick out the sayings of a prophet as contrary to other parts of the text and summarily claim that it is false on this basis is also not sufficient. Should we start digging through and finding other contradictions in the prophets or writings and summarily reject whatever author has written such things? I would hope not, as the list of viable texts would be just about nothing. Also, thinking in that way requires one to hold to a doctrine of complete divine inspiration for a valid argument to form. If one can say that some of the text is surely not divine and is reflects the prejudices of the author, then such criticism holds little weight. Also, the line between

Frankly, the whole polemic against Mormonism annoys me. Doesn't line up with your system of belief? Fine, then. Take a hike. Don't believe it. Don't think it is historically accurate? Ok, right back at you then. Find a tradition that stands up to that test then I'll show you a bridge I have been looking to sell.

And, no, I am not a Mormon.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Factless Bible myths:

1. Parting of the Red Sea
2. Adam and Eve
3. Noah's Arc
4. New Testament
5. The "creation"
6. many more...


Please don't bust on the Mormons for adding a few of their own.

 

[Andyman_1970]

4. New Testament

I've got some Aramaic scrolls sections that date to the late st century I'd like to introduce you to...............

 

[Changleen]

I've got some Aramaic scrolls sections that date to the late st century I'd like to introduce you to...............

I think he probably means virgin births, feeding the 5000, water/wine thing, ressurection etc.. The fairy story bits...

 

[Andyman_1970]

Perhaps no different than the lack of empirical/objective evidence for the exodus from Egypt or the Resurrection or the divine birth or any number of other things. If we're going to get hung up on historicity and empirical data as a test for religious truth, few religions will get very far.

Archeologically, Judaism and Christianity are more “airtight” (not that they are) than Mormonism by a long shot………that was my point. What’s a divine birth??? Historically there are several non-Christian sources that document not only Jesus (and I’m not referring to Josephus) but also the activities of His disciples, the Jewish Midrash and other rabbinic writings of the time make multiple references to them……….and these were people who denied that Jesus was the Messiah, so they had no ulterior motive to “prove” He was who He said He was.

And to pick out the sayings of a prophet as contrary to other parts of the text and summarily claim that it is false on this basis is also not sufficient.

How so, a man claiming to be a prophet of God says things that are patently contrary to even teachings from the “barbaric” Old Testament, not to mention to claim oneself to be a prophet you have to have a 100% track record, which Mr. Smith did not. I’m comparing Mr. Smith to the standards of what he claimed to be, he did not measure up.

Should we start digging through and finding other contradictions in the prophets or writings and summarily reject whatever author has written such things? I would hope not, as the list of viable texts would be just about nothing. Also, thinking in that way requires one to hold to a doctrine of complete divine inspiration for a valid argument to form. If one can say that some of the text is surely not divine and is reflects the prejudices of the author, then such criticism holds little weight. Also, the line between

And this would be different from any other thread in the PD forum about the Bible/God/Jesus/Christianity/Creation/etc?????

Frankly, the whole polemic against Mormonism annoys me. Doesn't line up with your system of belief? Fine, then. Take a hike. Don't believe it. Don't think it is historically accurate? Ok, right back at you then. Find a tradition that stands up to that test then I'll show you a bridge I have been looking to sell.

And, no, I am not a Mormon.

It’s ok to rail on Christians (which for the most part we bring it on ourselves) or to present counter arguments, but when someone presents counter arguments to the “new comer” (Mormonism) to the forum you seem to get your dander up……….whaaaaa. Everything I’ve presented in my points has it’s basis and evidence in non-Christian sources (read Jewish) so I’m attempting to be as objective as possible............not to mention as respectful as possible.