thats a one up on dw. Beaver's gonna take dw's job, I blame him for no more Sundays.Beavers is too modest.
I'm a bit of a designer myself so I appreciate creativity.
anyone fancy a 303 for a fraction of the price?
- Thread starter dhkid
- Start date
hardly
I'm working with several large manufacturers to license years of hardwork on my Bunny Based Undulating Technical Terrain design (BBUTT™
for the coming race season. Let's just say it will be the most technically advanced, race proven system on the mountain.
I have to be sparse on the details but come summer, everyone will lusting after my BBUTT™
I'm working with several large manufacturers to license years of hardwork on my Bunny Based Undulating Technical Terrain design (BBUTT™
for the coming race season. Let's just say it will be the most technically advanced, race proven system on the mountain.I have to be sparse on the details but come summer, everyone will lusting after my BBUTT™
You gotta lemme squeeze the first proto, I wont let go 'til i fall off and get knocked out. Hell, if its as good as you say I may have to blow a raspberry on it just to make a funny sound.
Edit: Did u google that or did u really make the bunny costume
.
Edit: Did u google that or did u really make the bunny costume
.
That's my bike dude.
It's so fast it broke my leg.
Made me look chinese too.
It's so fast it broke my leg.
Made me look chinese too.
there is a swing link, its blue in color. you just have to look hard.Good warning!
My guess is it's a copy from the first-gen 303 proto and pictures released on the web. Have a look behind the seat tube, I'm not sure I can see what should be there...
The early 303, still shown in some pictures and ads here in the UK, had no swing link connecting the swingarm to the front triangle. As soon as there is any play or wobble in the bearings, side load would tend to lock the sliders (like a sticky kitchen drawer).
YETI added the swing-link but it looks like this guy may have missed it out - I can't make it out on those pics. If so, not good!
are u sure it was the bike that made u look? maybe u landed in a cannabis plant? Or maybe your like me and are naturally asian, the world may never know. 101 licks.
The real question here, that no one is asking.... Does the fake 303 have the vagina on the top tube?
it would if kidwoo was riding it 
guess a seatpost wouldnt be needed then.
Damn this threads degraded a lot. I wonder if i could get a thai friend i know to grab one of these back for me, wonder if its worth a try...
Damn this threads degraded a lot. I wonder if i could get a thai friend i know to grab one of these back for me, wonder if its worth a try...
does this 303 have all the same advantages of the real 303, (no pedal bob, minimal brake jack, ect)
Hey I'm Thai, but not I'm not in Thailand. I'm now in Taiwan.
I don't like you guys said "COPY". What da heck! Using the same system doesn't means to "COPY" man. There is no single 303 frame in Thailand. Yeah, he do "COPY" from pics I think.
Especially you DAMO, what do you want to mean, Thailand is not a land of copy. What you know about economics, that's all about price man, please think twice.
Chuang's bike is good and has a decent price (for local people but may be cheap for you, Americans). If I'm not wrong, some guys told me that Chuang 303 is about 40,000 THB, or about 1,250 Buck @ 32 THB = 1 US Dollar. Without shock anyway.
the normal rate for conventional DH bike should be 16,000 THB without shock, it comes with bash guard, chain guide, and floater.
I think he didn't use butted tube, but it's not bad. Some of sheet metal formed bike can't apply "Butting" too. I have seen a hard tail XC frame weight about 1.4-1.6 kg from Chuang, so if you want a really light frame, you can order him.
Even really early design was crap, but now it's really improved. Actually Chuang build bikes for more than 20 years, since BMX good old time. Oh, he also build a small MX too.
I agree with some guys here, bike is not that complicate. I'm a Ph.D. student in Mechanical Engineering. I wanna say that "ALL" of suspension linkage are already in "Mechanics of Machinery", it's simply 4-bar linkage, or single pivot. Don't listen to advertisement that much, ride what you love is wise. Even VPP concept is already in text book, if you have a good comprehension about it, Just have side pics, you can roughly determine wheel path without calculator or computer need.
303 is quite unique, but in the text book, it's called "pin-slot" mechanism. The idea is really creative but nothing fancy for me. The linear bearing is damn expensive, I'm a big fan of I-Drive anyway.
If you ask me to make a frame, I'll definitely say NO, because I learned to be engineer, not machinist. I can weld, mill, lath, but it's not comparable to a skilled one.
OK, I have his phone number. Do you want to know that.
I don't like you guys said "COPY". What da heck! Using the same system doesn't means to "COPY" man. There is no single 303 frame in Thailand. Yeah, he do "COPY" from pics I think.
Especially you DAMO, what do you want to mean, Thailand is not a land of copy. What you know about economics, that's all about price man, please think twice.
Chuang's bike is good and has a decent price (for local people but may be cheap for you, Americans). If I'm not wrong, some guys told me that Chuang 303 is about 40,000 THB, or about 1,250 Buck @ 32 THB = 1 US Dollar. Without shock anyway.
the normal rate for conventional DH bike should be 16,000 THB without shock, it comes with bash guard, chain guide, and floater.
I think he didn't use butted tube, but it's not bad. Some of sheet metal formed bike can't apply "Butting" too. I have seen a hard tail XC frame weight about 1.4-1.6 kg from Chuang, so if you want a really light frame, you can order him.
Even really early design was crap, but now it's really improved. Actually Chuang build bikes for more than 20 years, since BMX good old time. Oh, he also build a small MX too.
I agree with some guys here, bike is not that complicate. I'm a Ph.D. student in Mechanical Engineering. I wanna say that "ALL" of suspension linkage are already in "Mechanics of Machinery", it's simply 4-bar linkage, or single pivot. Don't listen to advertisement that much, ride what you love is wise. Even VPP concept is already in text book, if you have a good comprehension about it, Just have side pics, you can roughly determine wheel path without calculator or computer need.
303 is quite unique, but in the text book, it's called "pin-slot" mechanism. The idea is really creative but nothing fancy for me. The linear bearing is damn expensive, I'm a big fan of I-Drive anyway.
If you ask me to make a frame, I'll definitely say NO, because I learned to be engineer, not machinist. I can weld, mill, lath, but it's not comparable to a skilled one.
OK, I have his phone number. Do you want to know that.
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Hey - your buddy has SKILLS. No question about that.
Mechanicsfever: I have a Patpong 'Tag Heuer' watch. Do you think it is real?
I'm kidding dude. I meant no offence to Thailand in general. I have spent some time there and love your country. I referred to the fact that it is easy to obtain good quality copies of nearly anything you want. Including my Italian wool 'Armani' suit.
As skilled a machinist this guy appears to be, I would fork out the extra grand to have a bike with serious testing behind it, as well as a warranty. Not to mention various things like weight differences etc.
The Tag Heuer watch I mentioned earlier: I took it into a Tag watch shop and they could not tell the difference when I asked for a couple of links to be taken out. On the outside, It was identical. Was it waterproof? It wasn't even rain-proof. Then I smashed the glass in a crash. Bye bye nice watch.
What I am saying is, how an item appears has nothing to do with how it will perform.
I'm kidding dude. I meant no offence to Thailand in general. I have spent some time there and love your country. I referred to the fact that it is easy to obtain good quality copies of nearly anything you want. Including my Italian wool 'Armani' suit.
As skilled a machinist this guy appears to be, I would fork out the extra grand to have a bike with serious testing behind it, as well as a warranty. Not to mention various things like weight differences etc.
The Tag Heuer watch I mentioned earlier: I took it into a Tag watch shop and they could not tell the difference when I asked for a couple of links to be taken out. On the outside, It was identical. Was it waterproof? It wasn't even rain-proof. Then I smashed the glass in a crash. Bye bye nice watch.
What I am saying is, how an item appears has nothing to do with how it will perform.
i'll have it!! does he speak english well?
i heard about him through gig (Thaksaporn Khaowsuwan), of the kona team. was really impressed with his work.
bwauhahahah....now that's some funny sh!t right there!
lets not turn this thread into weather its a copy or not, i for one dont give a crap.
the whole point of this thread is because i was amazed at the work this guy was doing as a one man operation. i am really interested in asking him to make a short travel dh bike for the region.
as far as i know there aren't any patents on the yeti design, so he isn't doing anything wrong here.
the whole point of this thread is because i was amazed at the work this guy was doing as a one man operation. i am really interested in asking him to make a short travel dh bike for the region.
as far as i know there aren't any patents on the yeti design, so he isn't doing anything wrong here.
I dont know what it is called exactly but I think it would be intelectual property or something like that.
I am not impressed by a guy who copies designs.
Building a bike isn't very difficult, some people make a bike with only a welding machine a saw and some tubing.
Engineering/designing a bike is difficult.
I am not impressed by a guy who copies designs.
Building a bike isn't very difficult, some people make a bike with only a welding machine a saw and some tubing.
Engineering/designing a bike is difficult.
I could build a frame with the tools available...there's not much to it. All you need to know it welding, machining, metal casting, some other basic metal processes...no doubt it took a lot of time and money to do it single handedly though. Hell, they don't even have electronics.
Ah, gosh DAMO. Dude, I would like to say that you brought a "Made in China" Taggy watch. I also have one 10 Bucks Rolex too, I took it from Xie Men, China. I don't mean to excuse, it's like you said, it's easy to find a copy stuff in Thailand. Even in many universities in Thailand use illegal copy of Windows, cracked software. There are so many hacker in these area. Even I used a copied text books when I were in Thailand. We're the same as many Taiwanese manufacturer, OEM. So we should have a straightforward politic to customer. I can say that, there is no copy stuff made and sell legally in Thailand. In Thailand, buyers are always free load, you have rights to buy a copy stuff. It's kinda funny.
I think if they have a decent price, they will pay for a real one. A copy stuff is just a lovely counter for "under the belt" profit.
Thanks for loving my country. The good for my country is that people love to smile like crazy.
For Mr. Chuang, I think he has one co-worker. I have no idea, he can and his mate can speak English or not. But hey my American friend who run a biking tour job in Chiang Mai can order "extra large & extra strong" DH rig. He can't speak Thai, but he got the bike. I hope, they might be one way or another to communicate with him.
I think if they have a decent price, they will pay for a real one. A copy stuff is just a lovely counter for "under the belt" profit.
Thanks for loving my country. The good for my country is that people love to smile like crazy.
For Mr. Chuang, I think he has one co-worker. I have no idea, he can and his mate can speak English or not. But hey my American friend who run a biking tour job in Chiang Mai can order "extra large & extra strong" DH rig. He can't speak Thai, but he got the bike. I hope, they might be one way or another to communicate with him.
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Oh Mr. Dutchman. So please tell me! All single pivot designs aren't "COPY". Got my point!
or
If you would ask somebody who isn't a complete bike freak he would say those are the same bikes. Therefore I am saying it is a copy.
If yeti was a dutch company these chuang bikes would be illegal to sell in the netherlands.
Ah, Don't forget to teach me what's a definition of engineering.
Oh, my friend just tell me now, Chuang uses 6061 triple butted.
I am not only speaking about the suspension system but also the rear swingarm, drop outs, front triangle. For me it looks like it he measured the yeti and made some minor changes so he is able to build it but for the biggest part he just copied it.
it is nice to see what he is able to do. And for dhkid to possibly get a custom bike.
But I think it is lame to copy another bike almost exactly and he shouldnt be given credit for that.
it is nice to see what he is able to do. And for dhkid to possibly get a custom bike.
But I think it is lame to copy another bike almost exactly and he shouldnt be given credit for that.
Didn't you read my post, there is no 303 in Thailand. Yeti doesn't sell bike, there is no authorized dealer. The most important thing, he never claim that bike is his very own design.
Look, may be Chuang's customer just wanna figure out 303. I told you so, this is not his design, it was made by order. Come out this bike is somewhat like prototyping, it's not bad to adopt some parts from proven rig.
This is a really early experimental prototype.Do improve, don't re-invent! I bet, the next bike with this suspension system will be improved.
He run a small workshop not a big company, build bike for whom love to ride with affordable price. So there are so many customer, he works with one guy, and both of them are not engineer. They aren't gain a big profit. At least, he did a re-designed front triangle and chain guide.
Look at the price, do you want him to re-design every part with that money just only for one customer. It's a day dream. Just he make a frame fit to rider is cool enough. Don't you think so?
Open mind, friend. Even a big automotive company also buys the contender machine, and do reverse engineering.
If you still think like that, so all road bike are copied. Every road bike looks the same for me too.
Here, The frame marked "CHUANG" not "YETI". How come you call it as COPY.
I don't want to fight against you dude. If you still didn't got what I mean, let it be. It's not my business, I gain no money for post. I will never response to your reply in this thread anymore.
I agree that it is cool that you can buy a custom bike. I agree that a good copy is better than a bad new design.
I just had doubts about somebody who isn't very capable of designing is own bike. And with his production possibilities he isn't capable of exactly copying the original so he needs to redesign some parts. But because he isn't a great engineer how can he be sure that his redesigned parts are as good as the original.
The changes he made are because of his limited machining tools(hydroforming is something he cant do is my guess).
What is a copy by your definition?
If he would have used the idea of the suspension system how come it is possible that 2 other points are completely the same as the original yeti? because his goal was to build a yeti 303 with custom geometry. and therefore it is a copy of the original 303 but with some personal tweaks.
This is just a matter of opinion and you don't need to reply on it. So no use for your last sentence.
The fact that there is no distributor doesn't mean that you cant have one in thailand.
I just had doubts about somebody who isn't very capable of designing is own bike. And with his production possibilities he isn't capable of exactly copying the original so he needs to redesign some parts. But because he isn't a great engineer how can he be sure that his redesigned parts are as good as the original.
The changes he made are because of his limited machining tools(hydroforming is something he cant do is my guess).
What is a copy by your definition?
If he would have used the idea of the suspension system how come it is possible that 2 other points are completely the same as the original yeti? because his goal was to build a yeti 303 with custom geometry. and therefore it is a copy of the original 303 but with some personal tweaks.
This is just a matter of opinion and you don't need to reply on it. So no use for your last sentence.
The fact that there is no distributor doesn't mean that you cant have one in thailand.
OK, since you ask me I'll reply you.
COPY means you do exactly the same, use no brain, just follow.
You said by yourself, it's tweaked. So it's not copy.
Use your logic, Avy fork also copy from Showa, and Showa copy Ohlin.
I don't know I suck at English or you just don't understand. I said IT WAS MADE BY ORDER.
or you want him develop from this
to this
and to this
it's non sense to re-inventing the wheel. He did what customer want!
It's a custom bike, OK, got it.
I know he can't use FEM stuff like a well educated engineer. So what!
It's just a bike, not super complicate. It's art and science. he know bike because he build frame for more than 20 years.
I think he is admirable guy, but you just insult him.
He has his design I'll show it later.
Ah If I can't find one because it's not available, what you will do. Build by our own is that wrong? Come on. We have rights to do that according to law, remember!
COPY means you do exactly the same, use no brain, just follow.
You said by yourself, it's tweaked. So it's not copy.
Use your logic, Avy fork also copy from Showa, and Showa copy Ohlin.
I don't know I suck at English or you just don't understand. I said IT WAS MADE BY ORDER.
or you want him develop from this
to this
and to this
it's non sense to re-inventing the wheel. He did what customer want!
It's a custom bike, OK, got it.
I know he can't use FEM stuff like a well educated engineer. So what!
It's just a bike, not super complicate. It's art and science. he know bike because he build frame for more than 20 years.
I think he is admirable guy, but you just insult him.
He has his design I'll show it later.
Ah If I can't find one because it's not available, what you will do. Build by our own is that wrong? Come on. We have rights to do that according to law, remember!
Seriously, guys, nothing to argue over here.
I'm impressed by the pics of the frames. From something that is apparently done by one or two guys without the equipment of larger manufacturers, it is impressive. Most frames made like that look way more cobbled together. These frames actually look professional. Good to see someone making decent frames and bringing good designs to people at a lower price.
I'm impressed by the pics of the frames. From something that is apparently done by one or two guys without the equipment of larger manufacturers, it is impressive. Most frames made like that look way more cobbled together. These frames actually look professional. Good to see someone making decent frames and bringing good designs to people at a lower price.
Sorry for hijacking, but I have to say that I liked the 06 and 07 303's so much more than the 08 frame. They looked so cool when they came to life.
Am I the only one?
Am I the only one?
Agree and I don't think Mr. Chuang is the one to give a hard time for copying in the bike business. He is in the same category as Carbon Mike that made that beautiful one off carbon VPP frame and nobody gave him a hard time:
Carbon Mike
People are getting worked up over copying needlessly, methinks.
How on earth do you think the Japanese came to dominate motocross - - and the motorcycle industry in general? They were not great innovators; but they were great copiers and marvelous refiners. They copied and then refined to the point that their refinements became innovation.
How on earth do you think the Japanese came to dominate motocross - - and the motorcycle industry in general? They were not great innovators; but they were great copiers and marvelous refiners. They copied and then refined to the point that their refinements became innovation.
Read a book about how that has been an essential part of Japanese culture. The art of copying where you learn from the master by copying the master. So making the perfect copy can be a good thing
I think that is the key to a good product, taking something that works and making it better. Wasn't there a company that had a commercial that said something to the effect of, "We don't make a lot of the products you use, we make the products better"
Here is Chuang's Original design.
He is a professional machinist. No wonder, and no doubt about his craftsmanship. He told people that he has been propose by a big bicycle company, but he said no, he love his business.
I'm not sure about weight, but if I'm not wrong, it's not exceed 4 kg (9 lbs) exclude shock.
He also make a custom frame too. I have seen a copied SC blur. If I can find pics, I'll show it later.
He is a professional machinist. No wonder, and no doubt about his craftsmanship. He told people that he has been propose by a big bicycle company, but he said no, he love his business.
I'm not sure about weight, but if I'm not wrong, it's not exceed 4 kg (9 lbs) exclude shock.
He also make a custom frame too. I have seen a copied SC blur. If I can find pics, I'll show it later.
wait, so you joined RM yeasterday, and all your posts have been promoting this "Chuang" shop who "doesn't copy" the 303, in this thread.
Huh.
Muy Curioso.
dude that is a 303 copy, a real good job of remanufacturing and machining skill but no real design skill tho,
man would like to see what gear he has in his work shop?
man would like to see what gear he has in his work shop?
OK, All I want to mean is that Chuang doesn't has a copy job in common, but he is frame fabricator. There is no 303 in Thailand. Nobody has seen 303 before. It's like re-create for 303. That 303 is a truly custom made. All we got is just several pictures in magazine.
Another point is that even they use the same suspension system never means to copy. Chuang 303 has been done since 2006. Compare to Yeti at that time, you can see some difference in detail. I never mind to call them as copy, but I just don't like the way that some guy insult and underestimate him just because he is Thai.
But for SC he really did copied, because his customer want a small SC for 4X which is rarely to find it here too. It's made by order, not by his own will.
He has his own design, and those rigs have been race in Thailand.
Actually I read Rm for a long time ago, but I feel lazy to post. I just want to inform some guys who interest in his craftsmanship with an affordable price.
Here's a simple question for all the knee-jerk-oh-my-god-he-ripped-off-yeti-and-now-the-world-is-going-to-end-and-yeti-will go-bankrupt-and-all-their-work-will-be-outsourced-to-bangladesh types.
When the first rear suspension bikes were introduced that used a swingarm pivoting on a set of bearings did everyone get all up in arms that they were ripping off motorcross bikes and that it was a horrible crime of corporate espionage that would destroy the motorcross industry? Nope. People were stoked that there was a crossover of technology that made riding better for us.
When more and more bikes started being produced that utilised the same pivot-around-bearings technology and maunfacturing them cheaply in Taiwan was it shrilly claimed that it was end of the earth and the fault of those horrible communist Chinese and that soon we'd all be working for Mr Chan and speaking Mandarin. Nope. We were excited that the standardisation of the new technology made bikes more affordable and put more full-suspension designs within the reach of the average rider.
However, Yeti go and design a new way of suspending the rear of a bicycle, ONE guy in Thailand proves that "Hey, I can make that same system in my own workshop" and all of a sudden it's the worst thing that's ever happened? Please. It's brilliant!
If Yeti's system is so good (and it does ride pretty bloody brilliantly in my opinion) then we should expect other manufacturers to pick up the system, start using it and making it both more commonplace and more affordable. This will be good. Good for everyone involved. Stop being so bloody-minded, just because the guy lives in Thailand doesn't mean he's trying to make a cheap rip-off, flood the market and steal Yeti's business. He's made one bike, a proof-of-capability and done a kick-arse job of it. If he was American you'd all be wildly swinging from his nuts and congratulating him on a job well done.
When the first rear suspension bikes were introduced that used a swingarm pivoting on a set of bearings did everyone get all up in arms that they were ripping off motorcross bikes and that it was a horrible crime of corporate espionage that would destroy the motorcross industry? Nope. People were stoked that there was a crossover of technology that made riding better for us.
When more and more bikes started being produced that utilised the same pivot-around-bearings technology and maunfacturing them cheaply in Taiwan was it shrilly claimed that it was end of the earth and the fault of those horrible communist Chinese and that soon we'd all be working for Mr Chan and speaking Mandarin. Nope. We were excited that the standardisation of the new technology made bikes more affordable and put more full-suspension designs within the reach of the average rider.
However, Yeti go and design a new way of suspending the rear of a bicycle, ONE guy in Thailand proves that "Hey, I can make that same system in my own workshop" and all of a sudden it's the worst thing that's ever happened? Please. It's brilliant!
If Yeti's system is so good (and it does ride pretty bloody brilliantly in my opinion) then we should expect other manufacturers to pick up the system, start using it and making it both more commonplace and more affordable. This will be good. Good for everyone involved. Stop being so bloody-minded, just because the guy lives in Thailand doesn't mean he's trying to make a cheap rip-off, flood the market and steal Yeti's business. He's made one bike, a proof-of-capability and done a kick-arse job of it. If he was American you'd all be wildly swinging from his nuts and congratulating him on a job well done.