[Tomasz]

Leaky seals happen. Improperly assembled forks happen.

An actual review would attempt to give us some information about how frequent such problems are.

An actual review tells you how the fork rides.

It doesn't even have to be long.

Boxxer review: Bad small bump compliance, rides high in the travel, very light. Very tuneable, easy to service, pretty reliable.

888 review: A+ small bump compliance, dives under braking, sometimes makes noise when riding. Normal weight. Moderately tuneable, easy to service, legendary reliability.

Dorado: A+ small bump compliance, flexxy, excellent dampening performance all around. Very tuneable, bitch to service, mixed reliability, parts can be hard to find.

Pinkbikes Emerald review: It's a fork. For bikes. If the seal leaks they fix it. Woohoo trails!

 

[yd35]

Boxxer review: Bad small bump compliance, rides high in the travel, very light. Very tuneable, easy to service, pretty reliable.

888 review: A+ small bump compliance, dives under braking, sometimes makes noise when riding. Normal weight. Moderately tuneable, easy to service, legendary reliability.

Dorado: A+ small bump compliance, flexxy, excellent dampening performance all around. Very tuneable, bitch to service, mixed reliability, parts can be hard to find.

Pinkbikes Emerald review: It's a fork. For bikes. If the seal leaks they fix it. Woohoo trails!

You forgot your 40 review

 

[Kanye West]

Dorado: A+ small bump compliance, flexxy, excellent dampening performance all around. Very tuneable, bitch to service, mixed reliability, parts can be hard to find.

Since when is a Dorado a bitch to service?? It's WAY easier than either of the others you mentioned, and definitely more reliable than one of them.

What parts would you need to find other than seals? Manitou has always been great about sourcing parts. RockShox won't even sell direct.

 

[Tomasz]

Since when is a Dorado a bitch to service?? It's WAY easier than either of the others you mentioned, and definitely more reliable than one of them.

What parts would you need to find other than seals? Manitou has always been great about sourcing parts. RockShox won't even sell direct.

Try getting Dorado parts in Canada. After their distributor stopped carrying them. It's not fun.

And the nearest tech who can service Dorados is 1.5hrs from Whistler. I'll admit to not having taken it apart myself.

 

[Tomasz]

You forgot your 40 review

I haven't owned one yet!

 

[yd35]

I haven't owned one yet!

You mean your posts are based on real-life experience? Blasphemy!

 

[ianjenn]

Will have saddle time on one I just installed today. Will give you some thoughts in the next week.

 

[Tomasz]

You're the man.

 

[slyfink]

Will have saddle time on one I just installed today. Will give you some thoughts in the next week.

 

[ianjenn]

Okay

 

[slyfink]

hoooooeeeeeee! that's a nice ride. looking forward to the review.

 

[gemini2k]

Try getting Dorado parts in Canada. After their distributor stopped carrying them. It's not fun.

And the nearest tech who can service Dorados is 1.5hrs from Whistler. I'll admit to not having taken it apart myself.

Those all sound like personal problems, not the forks fault. The Dorado is literally the easier fork I've ever tried to service. I think I can do a seal change on both legs in sub 10 minutes if the fork is off the bike, maybe even less.

 

[ianjenn]

Okay did 2 runs down local rocky trail today. First fast impressions I set the for to 90PSI I weigh 210 with gear.

1. Seemed pretty damn stiff I would venture to say as stiff or stiffer than 40 Float.
2. It was too much air I am going down to 85 for next ride and softening the OTT setting on fork.
3. It felt very smooth over the rough stuff.

Get more after its closer to dialed in!

 

[iRider]

Could you also try to ride it without the CTA at some point?

 

[ianjenn]

Could you also try to ride it without the CTA at some point?

Yeah I can take it off. Rode it a few more times the fork is in the ball park now. It is very subtle over fast chatter. Seems to handle repeated high speed hits very well....

 

[aenema]

They were claiming Dorado level stiffness without the CTA. I owned a Dorado for a couple years and have nothing but praise for that fork. It would be nice if they came out with just basic plastic stanchion guards for those wanting to either drop weight or if they wanted to run the come compliant setup and still have the lowers protected. They could just screw into the existing holes the CTA utilizes.

 

[dytrdr5]

got mine yesterday and it will be installed on the bike tonight. Since I live in Houston it's first real ride will be Bootleg in two weeks, which is nice because the DVO guys are going to be there and have already said they will help me set it up. Will post pics later.

 

[ianjenn]

Okay more ride input.

Did a fast rocky trail today. Rocks range from golfball, basketball and huge imbedded slabs. I was maybe doing 15mph through parts fast rider on DH bikes will hit closer to high 20's.

The fork stayed on the ground like putty. The faster and rougher it went the better it felt. I was holding tight and hands seemed not to get forearm pump!

It feels really good with a few clicks of LSC I have 3 right now may go to 4. I still havent got my HSC setting finalized I may need to add one or two clicks depending. I am at 85 PSI.....

 

[gemini2k]

They were claiming Dorado level stiffness without the CTA. I owned a Dorado for a couple years and have nothing but praise for that fork. It would be nice if they came out with just basic plastic stanchion guards for those wanting to either drop weight or if they wanted to run the come compliant setup and still have the lowers protected. They could just screw into the existing holes the CTA utilizes.

I believe its the fore-aft stiffness that is similar to the dorado, sans CTA. The torsional stiffness without the CTA is less than the dorado, but with the CTA is stiffer than the dorado. I could be wrong. That's vaguely what I remember during a car ride up to Big Bear.

 

[Udi]

I highly doubt that the torsional stiffness values are anywhere near that of a 40.

It would be good to see some actual numbers on stiffness, Americans are so full of it when it comes to that stuff (varying percentage claims with no point of comparison, subjective descriptions, personal feelings). I really like the German magazine tests for this reason - when QR15 axles came out, they just tested and provided numerical values for a few different forks.

Contrary to internet opinion, it's actually quite noticeable (and detrimental in rougher / steeper terrain) when torsional flex increases.

 

[iRider]

I really like the German magazine tests for this reason - when QR15 axles came out, they just tested and provided numerical values for a few different forks.

Yeah, but if I remember right they also showed that the QR15 was not as stiff as the 20 mm axles and that the QR setup with the increased hub/fork interface that Specialized used at the time was as good as 15 mm. Too bad the industry doesn't care and goes for 15 mm.

Same goes for wheel sizes, where they couldn't show statistically significant gains by going big. Oh well, nothing a little marketing can't fix.

 

[jackalope]

Off topic, but regarding the different axle diameters, I've always been under the impression that crown design had a lot to do with overall stiffness as well, perhaps as much or more than the axle size. Plus, there seems to be a lot of factors like stanchion diameter, steerer tube design, wheel build, hub flanges, etc...that determine how stiff a fork is. Which is why the old single crown Shivers were so awesome

 

[ianjenn]

Contrary to internet opinion, it's actually quite noticeable (and detrimental in rougher / steeper terrain) when torsional flex increases.

You should tell that to the KHS boys..... doesn't seem to slow them down any.

 

[Sandwich]

the one thing I do love about 15mm is that it's unifying the fitment of all wheels. You can shop for a 142/15mm wheelset, and it'll fit on your XC bike, your enduro rig, your AM sled, your aggro HT, your 650b bike, and your 29er, who rides 26 anymore, and so on and so forth. The only holdouts are DH bikes, with 150mm and 20mm, which is fine for most people. The death of the QR is really OK, even if it forces the obsolescence of so many old parts.

 

[iRider]

the one thing I do love about 15mm is that it's unifying the fitment of all wheels. You can shop for a 142/15mm wheelset, and it'll fit on your XC bike, your enduro rig, your AM sled, your aggro HT, your 650b bike, and your 29er, who rides 26 anymore, and so on and so forth. The only holdouts are DH bikes, with 150mm and 20mm, which is fine for most people. The death of the QR is really OK, even if it forces the obsolescence of so many old parts.

And your point is? I run 20 mm axle forks and have hubs that can be converted from 135 x 12 to QR in the rear on my XC/trail bikes. Even my "old" DH bike can take those wheels and the "new" DH bike can take the front wheel.
So moar compatibility from the old standards.

 

[Udi]

Yeah, but if I remember right they also showed that the QR15 was not as stiff as the 20 mm axles

I'm not claiming otherwise (all my bikes have 20mm axles, though I don't have a strong opinion either way), just pointing out that ze Germans make the effort to quantify their claims, or rather in most cases just don't make claims at all and instead provide raw data. The rest of the world could definitely take a leaf out of their book.

Off topic, but regarding the different axle diameters, I've always been under the impression that crown design had a lot to do with overall stiffness as well, perhaps as much or more than the axle size. Plus, there seems to be a lot of factors like stanchion diameter, steerer tube design, wheel build, hub flanges, etc...that determine how stiff a fork is.

For sure, but in this particular case the crown is the only bracing point after the axle (~600mm away), and the stanchions are able to rotate freely within the upper tubes (in this case), so stiffness at the axle is far more critical to overall torsional stiffness than on a conventional chassis. The CTA still mounts only at the axle/dropouts so it is by no means a replacement for a conventional lower casting.

You should tell that to the KHS boys..... doesn't seem to slow them down any.

Or does it?
Without multiple sequential timed runs on each fork setup as close to the same as possible and with otherwise identical builds, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Not having a go at you personally or DVO here, I'd be equally curious about (for example) putting Gwin on coil suspension vs. air suspension, or a Demo vs. Session.

Just that I've noticed the DVO marketing material touts a lot of "stiffer this" and "40-50%" that (the numbers actually changed between interviews I read, with no indication of actual test data or the point of comparison - presumably sans CTA), and now there's mismatching claims of comparisons to the Dorado.

Someone should just put a few forks in a jig, put some repeatable torsional and lateral loads through them, and measure deflection.

 

[Sandwich]

And your point is? I run 20 mm axle forks and have hubs that can be converted from 135 x 12 to QR in the rear on my XC/trail bikes. Even my "old" DH bike can take those wheels and the "new" DH bike can take the front wheel.
So moar compatibility from the old standards.

Yes you can buy an adapter and spend the time adapting your wheels, or your entire collection of bikes could all use the same axle and fit on every bike.

 

[sbabuser]

Yes you can buy an adapter and spend the time adapting your wheels, or your entire collection of bikes could all use the same axle and fit on every bike.

I haven't owned a bike w/ 9mm front axles since '04. Who gives a f89k what 100mm forks are running for axle size? I don't have any interest in dumbing down my front axle to save a few grams.