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Anyone have to deal with Fed Ex damage claims?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by mattmatt86, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    I shipped a brand new complete bike to a guy via Fed Ex ground, I was covering shipping so naturally I used the cheapest route. The buyer e-mailed me two pictures today showing the headtube dented (it looks like it's dented to the point where the frame isn't usable now). I don't recall paying extra for insurance beyond whatever the included insurance is. Am I screwed? I packaged the bike better than any bike I've ever shipped and it takes a lot of force to dent a headtube, I would have to think something out of the ordinary happened to the package. Anyone ever deal with Fed Ex Claims?
     
    #1 -   Jan 9, 2013

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  2. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    the only claim i ever had to deal w/ was missing items. not damaged items. it was also UPS. and i bought from an e-tailer (dan's comp). i contacted them first, we discussed everything, they wanted me to file a police report claiming items went missing in transit (dan's comp apparently has an awesome inventory tracking system to ensure that everything on an order gets packed and shipped). i filed the report, sent them a copy, they sent me replacement parts and that was the end of it.

    so no, i can't help you. i'd say probably you're screwed. can you get the seller to send you pictures of the damaged packaging?

    also, were you the original owner? you could always try to warranty the frame ;)
     
    #2 -   Jan 9, 2013
  3. Beef Supreme

    Beef Supreme Turbo Monkey

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    I have experience with this. Sorry but this post is going to be full of suck.

    1) The biggest problem you have is with the declared value. Unless you filled out and paid for a higher amount, their max liability is $100. I always declare full value when shipping with any company. It is just not worth the risk otherwise.
    2) The second biggest problem involves visible damage. If the recipient accepted the package and did not indicate it was damaged at the time, your claim process just got much harder. Their is such a thing as concealed damage but it is harder to collect. Make sure the recipient keeps all of the packaging. You will need it for any claim.
    3) The claim process is designed to make it hard enough to collect that you just go away. UPS is slightly worse. You will have to be very persistent.

    Start the claim process as soon as possible. They will pick it up for inspection. They have the full terms on their website but it just gets worse from the items stated above.
     
    #3 -   Jan 9, 2013
  4. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

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    a simple "no" at the beginning would have sufficed.



    if you didnt pay for the insurance for the value of the bike (god knows why you didnt,) you are more then likely screwed.
     
    #4 -   Jan 9, 2013
  5. kazlx

    kazlx Patches O'Houlihan

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    Uh, yea, you might be screwed. I have had to file a couple claims, but the only claims I have had are stuff coming to me. Like mentioned above, I know the max liability for them is $100 without insurance and it's plainly stated for UPS and FedEx. Insurance is ridiculously cheap...I usually over insure everything that I ship by a couple hundred bucks (on something $$$ like a frame or car parts) just for that reason.

    So yea, you might have screwed yourself...sorry dude.
     
    #5 -   Jan 9, 2013
  6. canadmos

    canadmos Mater Slayer

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    Even if you're screwed with the shipping company, did you by any chance let the person know who purchased it that you were going to ship it as cheap as possible?

    It might be a dick thing to do, but if you warned him about the possibility of it being damaged once it left your hands, wouldn't it be partly his responsibility...especially since he signed for a damaged package? Probably not the route that anyone would want to take with this, but just saying.

    I sold my DH bike to a guy who lived about 7 hours away from me just over a year and a half ago. The bugger was cheap as hell. I made it clear right from the beginning that I'd ship it however he wants, but I'm not covering any damage or loss because of it. He ended up choosing to ship the entire bike (purchased used for $3500), on a ****ty sketchy GreyHound bus without any form of insurance. The bike ended up arriving safetly, but I thought that was pretty stupid.
     
    #6 -   Jan 9, 2013
  7. TreeSaw

    TreeSaw Mama Monkey

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    You're probably screwed. I am still going through the process with UPS for a bike they damaged in July and I paid for the insurance!!!
     
    #7 -   Jan 9, 2013
  8. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    I called and talked to a very helpful guy at Fed Ex yesterday afternoon. He said that I can still get paid for the full value of the bike but they have to physically pickup and inspect the package. He said if I had paid the extra amount for insurance everything would be a little bit quicker and they might be able to handle everything with just pictures. They are picking up the package from the guy sometime today. Fingers crossed.
     
  9. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    And we await the answer to one simple question: Did you insure it and if so, how much?
     
  10. ridiculous

    ridiculous Turbo Monkey

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    You might be ok here. This happened to a coworker of mine but it took him about 8 weeks of pain (sending photos, staying on top of the case, meeting the claims rep etc.) to get it all sorted. Best advice is to not give in until you are sure you are screwed and that answer should come a few weeks from now, not via the phone.
     
  11. Beef Supreme

    Beef Supreme Turbo Monkey

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    You sure you had the right number?
     
  12. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    We all forgot to mention the worst part. The guy on the other end who didn't get what he paid for defamating you on every piece of internet there is and all the phone calls and emails that will get exceedingly hostile and belligerent. Those were good times...."sigh"
     
  13. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    tl;dr?

    da fuq u smokin? buyer seems to be working w/ matt here to get things worked out.
     
  14. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    No I didn't. I've shipped over 200 bikes the last two years and normally don't insure unless the buyer specifically asks for it. I've worked in bike shops for over 5 year and know how to pack a bike, I spent 2 hours packing this bike, using tons of cardboard reinforcement, dividers, foam, boxes for individual small parts. The eventual weight of the bike boxed up was over 10lbs more than the weight of the actual bike, meaning I used 7-8 lbs of packing material (not counting the box). For there to be a dent in the headtube it's obvious that something extremely out of the ordinary happened during shipping. The guy on the phone said if there is evidence of negligence it doesn't matter if it was insured for the actual amount, they will pay. How fast/easy it gets taken care of is yet to be seen...

    I know right? The guy was super helpful, he was a road biker himself so he knew exactly what I was talking about when I gave him all the info. Thumbs up for Fed Ex having someone helpful answer the phone.
     
  15. canadmos

    canadmos Mater Slayer

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  16. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    Well just got an update that they denied the claim. I'm currently charging my phone and brewing a pot of coffee with the plan of being on the phone for a good part of the day.

    Edit: I just read the reasoning, "no Damage to contents" How the hell did they missed the crushed headtube? I'm so furious right now.
     
    #16 -   Jan 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  17. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    Sounds par for the course. About like the guy on the other end of the line trying to convince me in week three it might still get delivered.
     
  18. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

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    Do you have the pictures from your sale? If you do, send them the pictures of the pre- and post-shipping bike. Not knowing what it should look like can contribute to that response.
     
  19. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    Just got off the phone with someone. Now they are offering me 100 dollars plus the 61 dollars it cost to ship. They said because I didn't declare a value that's all they can do. I know this would obviously come up, I told them I've shipped over 200 bikes over the couple years and not had 1 issue and that the damage to this frame is obviously from some sort of mishandling outside the normal scope of shipping activities. I said I wanted to speak with a supervisor and she said one would call me in the next 48 hours.

    I've done some research online since the call, apparently Fedex doesn't actually have insurance they "urge all shippers to use 3rd party insurance when packages have a declared value over 100 dollars." There are 100s of stories about people getting claims denied even when they declare the value. One woman ordered a 1200 dollar powertap wheelset and Fedex admitted to delivering it to the wrong house but still only refunded her 100 bucks despite declaring 1200.

    Things are looking a bit moar grim now...
     
  20. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

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    What is the bike worth? If you have renter's/homeowner's insurance, you might need to get that involved.
     
  21. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    The guy purchased the bike from me for 2400. The headtube is essentially ovalized so if I could get a new front triangle it would fixed. I contacted a friend this morning inquiring about a replacement cost for a front triangle. My last ditch effort will be to get Fedex to increase from 100 dollars to whatever the triangle cost is, rebuild the bike and sell it complete again.
     
  22. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

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    A front triangle is probably going to eat up a big chunk of your sale price, which sucks. Hopefully you can get them to work with you, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
     
  23. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    Just got a call from a "supervisor" at FedEx Claims, she said mostly the same BS as the other person I talked to. She harped a few times about me not declaring a value, then I caught her off guard and repeated almost verbatim that their policy says that declared value doesn't mean insurance and that they urge everyone to have third party insurance and they maintain the right to refuse any claim even with a declared value. She then admitted that they probably wouldn't pay my claim even if I had a declared value. I asked to speak with her supervisor and she said she had none, so I said "you're the CEO of FedEX?" She said "no, but I speak on behalf of him and you can't talk to him." So at this point I guess I'm just screwed, I have no idea what to do now...

    Pic's I took yesterday to show the damage







     
  24. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

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    Blows. And in other news, nobody on RM will ever use FedEx to ship bikes anymore.
     
  25. bean

    bean Turbo Monkey

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    Sorry, man. Pretty much what I was expecting.

    Unfortunately I've had just as many problems with UPS and USPS as I have with FedEx so I know it doesn't really matter which one you ship with. There will eventually be problems.
     
  26. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    I'm considering going on a social media/internet mission to bring as much bad PR to Fedex as possible. I read a story about a woman on FB complaining about Whirlpool and her post went viral and the company president called her and took care of the situation personally. I guess small claims court would be a waste of time...
     
  27. Beef Supreme

    Beef Supreme Turbo Monkey

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    I'd like to see someone try the small claims court route. Even in house lawyers are expensive.
     
  28. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

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    Do it. Just make sure that you make sure to have all your facts correct and make it very organized so it can't come back to you as slander.

    serious amusement could be had here. Research the hell out of costs to you before you do it though. Focus on he fact hat ht effectively state that declared value and insurance aren't worth anything from them. Make sire you go after them for just the cost of he replacement front triangle and small claims fees. You are probably far more likely to win by aiming low.
     
  29. HardtailHack

    HardtailHack used an iron once

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    So did the package have damage at the headtube end? I was going to ask if it could be possible that the buyer had an identical frame that they had damaged previously and were scamming you, doubt that damage could be done by riding though.

    Make sure you have fun sticking it to the big bad company, you'll probably never see the total amount refunded.
     
  30. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    No it was the same frame.

    I found out from a friend at a Specialized dealer that they don't have just front triangles, so my only option is a new frame for 1250. But someone at the same shop thinks they can fix the headtube based on the pics. I'm certainly not dropping another 1250 on top of having to refund the 2400. I might just part the rest of the bike out and sell the "repaired" frame for dirt cheap. I'll be losing money no matter what. I'm so pissed, I'm unemployed and sold the bike to pay bills, now I have to borrow money to pay the buyer back.
     
  31. squiby

    squiby Chimp

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    Situation sucks.:(

    Thanks for the education. Best to say buyer pays/chooses shipping and it is on them once it leaves your hands.
     
  32. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    Looks like I might not have any ground to stand on. Seems the law is on FedEx's side...Carmack Amendment

    I looked up several court cases (some well over 1 million in damages) where there was either no declared value or a more conservative value entered for an item and every time the court found the shipper at fault for the damages but limited their liability to less than the replacement or actual value.

    I guess it's a hard lesson to learn, don't think just cause you spent 2 hours and packaged something with the utmost care that you don't need to spend the 5 seconds and couple dollars to declare a value.

    In other new's does anyone want a New Enduro Evo frame with some slight cosmetic damage? :spam:
     
  33. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    I worke din a UPS shipping center for roughly a month and for the life of me I can't figure how that type of damage could ever happen en route. The box itself would have to be crushed front and back for that kind of impact to occur.

    Am I seeing that the top flange AND the bottom flange are both bent inward? Was the headset in it at the time you shipped it? And since I know NOTHING about that frame, is it an integrated model? If so, you're not fixing it for any substantial period of time. If it's not integrated, a good old Cane Creek Tank headset would do the trick :D

    Butch - eyeball diagnostic elitist pro deducer
     
  34. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    Last thing...wouldn't those dents be from two separate impacts, like a concrete floor! I call buyer scam. Call the Specialized dealer in his home town and ask if he bought one from them.
     
    #34 -   Jan 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  35. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    There's no conspiracy theory about it being a different frame. It was a new 2 year old bike so what are the Odds this guy had an identical new frame in the same size. Plus, there was a couple tiny scratches on the chainstay I noticed when I was packaging and I just double checked the frame here in my office and those scratches are there.

    Its an integrated model, the sealed headset bearings just drop into the frame. No the headset wasn't in at the time, I removed the fork, wrapped it up in bubble seperately and wrapped the headtube in 1/2" hard foam.

    My father and a couple other people think I should still go to small claims court for the value of 1250 (replacement cost of the frame). They all think Fedex won't bother with small claims and just send me a check. I was even considering contacting Specialized and asking for some documentation on how much force it would take to dent the headtube. Thoughts?
     
  36. demo 9

    demo 9 Turbo Monkey

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    I have used small claims a few times, each time the day before the court date the company called up and took care of it, scc works wonders. While its a PITA, my pride > value of my time
     
  37. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    Glad to hear. A couple guys on a Guitar forum said the received a call from FedEx a couple days after they filed the SCC paperwork and they paid up.
     
  38. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    Oh, and your social media frenzy tool may just work. Forgot to relay that Bank of America charged me 6 NSF fees by posting a single check cut a long time after 6 debit charges (which per bank policy count immediately). The check was cut knowing it would overdraft and I'd get a fee for it, but there was a hard deadline on that one payment.

    I posted on my "Twitter" and "Facebook" accounts using my phone and their customer service spotted it and sent me a private message, then got in touch with me to fix it and refund them all. They then posted on twitter how they'd helped make yet another happy customer.

    I once bragged on Twitter that I stopped in an Ingles Supermarket during their Boars Head introduction to buy lunch, but left so full off samples my lunch went in the fridge. Somehow they spotted it and posted it on their account too.

    Maybe take that shot first.
     
  39. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    The funny thing is that I checked Fedex's FB page and it's littered with unhappy customers posting things. FedEx would post something and a bunch of the comments afterwards were "that's nice and all but where the hell is my daughters birthday present?" or "thanks for smashing my guitar a$$holes!" Maybe FedEx doesn't give a sh!t about bad PR.

    Edit: Just found the e-mail addresses for every executive at FedEx. I'm going to draft up a Professional e-mail with pictures and documentation and send it to everyone of them.
     
    #39 -   Jan 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  40. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

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    cant imagine how it could have gotten damaged
     
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