Anyone riding with a knee brace or ACL deficient?

1000-Oaks · Apr 27, 2004

My ortho doc thought I had a torn meniscus (hardly any lag) until the MRI showed the ACL was gone. He said my knee is almost as tight without the ACL as most people are with. That's only with my leg muscles "active" however, your body can keep the knee aligned amazingly well under normal circumstances. Anytime I relax the leg (laying on the couch, driving, etc.) the knee drifts out of alignment and I have to slowly straighten my leg while flexing the muscles to "pull" the knee back into position. I can't imagine the damage you'd get from any kind of impact while the knee is in that "out" position, or if a fall pushed it into that position. The leg just won't straighten until the knee is back where it should be. It feels fine riding XC and downhill even without the brace, but it's just too risky to keep pushing it: Thursday it gets fixed. If I was older (I'm 33) and wasn't into sports I wouldn't bother, but with my lifestyle I'm not going to risk cripling that leg forever.

Repack · Apr 27, 2004

Originally posted by 1000-Oaks
...... He said my knee is almost as tight without the ACL as most people are with. That's only with my leg muscles "active" however, your body can keep the knee aligned amazingly well under normal circumstances. Anytime I relax the leg (laying on the couch, driving, etc.) the knee drifts out of alignment and I have to slowly straighten my leg while flexing the muscles to "pull" the knee back into position. I can't imagine the damage you'd get from any kind of impact while the knee is in that "out" position, or if a fall pushed it into that position. ......

I had a similar experience with the relaxed bit. Laying on my side, in bed or on a couch, was one of the most agravating things I could do to it. Driving was also very bad- the twisting of my leg to go from the gas to the brakes. Kind of funny how that owrks.
I tore the meniscus when it was in the 'out' position. Came straight down on it off of a drop. Didn't feel anything offset. It was kind of a cracking knuckles sensation followed my excruciating (sp?) pain. No ACL let it slip just enough.

Motionboy2 · Apr 27, 2004

Originally posted by crashing_sux
I hope you have a good recovery. I had the hamstring graft myself (my right knee two years ago, not my current injury) and while my hamstrings are still much weaker in that leg I don't notice it while DH'ing (I ride flats) or snowboarding. The knee feels absolutely great day to day, just takes a few months to get there. I'll definitely go with the hamstring graft for my current ACL issue in my left knee as well, I just want to get through the summer first.

You'll probably have a great recovery, from what I hear people with strong quads like avid bikers usually do.

Keep on that ice and elevation, I used a continuous cooling machine and it made a huge difference.

It is actually going quite well. today is the 8th day since my opperation and I am up to 98 degrees on the cpm machine. I went to the physical therapist yesterday and she asked me if I have been working on the excersizes that she was making me do already. I haven't, so she seemed pretty impressed.
Now all I need to do is start driving and walking like normal and I am set!

PolarBearWY · Apr 27, 2004

I had ACL surgery on Jan 22, '04 and am already back to jogging and biking, without a brace. I guess a lot of it depends on where you go for surgery. I see some of you guys mention braces and what not. No crutches, no braces. I was walking within 30 minutes of waking up. That was funny, actually. I called the nurse in to use the restroom (darn I.V.) and asked her to help me get to the restroom. She said, "Can't you get there yourself?" in a joking manner. It turned out I could put full weight on both knees (opposite graft) just fine.

I can suggest one thing... graft the same knee!!! Sure, recovery time is faster but (YIKES) rehabilitating two knees at the same time sucks!

Personally, if you are ACL deficient or have a bum knee, then I suggest to get it fixed. It only takes one good crash to destroy the rest of your knee. If you tear your ACL, you can get it fixed and move on with life. If you mess up your meniscus, it can usually be repaired. But if you go on without fixing it and screw up everything else, you may never jog again.

1000-Oaks · Apr 30, 2004

Got mine fixed this morning! It hurts like hell and I can't put any weight on it, but can flex it to 90 degrees (doc said don't try to go any further yet).

The CPM machine didn't show up until this evening, but that thing is a GODSEND! It feels so good to have the knee moving constantly, it gets stiff and painful fast otherwise. I highly recommend it to anyone.

I'm not one for drugs, but I'm pretty happy to be on the vicoden and 800mg tylenol. I almost passed out from the pain at one point today, muscles turned to jello / face turned white / was instantly drenched with sweat and the knee felt like it was going to explode. Then it went away. Weird, I've been pretty good other than those five minutes.

Renegade · Apr 30, 2004

Originally posted by crashing_sux
He gets it, and didn't say I'm cleared to ride, but that it looks like I may be, I'll have to keep an eye on it and see.

It actually surprises me so many people are automatically saying things that amount to "you're a dumbass if you do".

It's not like every ACL injury means a reconstruction and that youre an idiot to consider your alternatives.

Dude, you are the one who asked all of us for OUR opinions, without knowing the details of your injury. This was my reply; "My two cents: I won't give you a long story, I've blown a knee out recently and had it repaired. I lost a summer because of it. But I wouldn't change that. Putting off the surgery cause you don't want to miss a season is a short-sighted selfish act that you will regret as you age. You're apt to further injure the area, build up scar tissue, prolong your eventual recovery, and most likely suffer from pain and restrictions later in life.
Do the right thing NOW and enjoy yourself next year and the years to come. Unless you plan on dying within a years time.

DO THE RIGHT THING! "

How do you interpret that as me calling you a dumbass?

1000-Oaks · Apr 30, 2004

Originally posted by 1000-Oaks
Did you guys use a CPM machine after the surgery? My doc signed me up for three weeks on the machine, but my insurance isn't going to cover much of it and it could cost me $8,000.

Turns out the chick who gave me that $400-$500/day price was an absolute idiot, it's actually only $16 per day....

1000-Oaks · Apr 30, 2004

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by crashing_sux
He gets it, and didn't say I'm cleared to ride, but that it looks like I may be, I'll have to keep an eye on it and see.

It actually surprises me so many people are automatically saying things that amount to "you're a dumbass if you do".

It's not like every ACL injury means a reconstruction and that youre an idiot to consider your alternatives.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll say it: "you're a dumbass if you do", and short-sighted.

PolarBearWY · Apr 30, 2004

Pretty much every ACL injury is the same -- it's a destabilation of the knee. Sure, you can strengthen your quads and hammies but you are still most likely doing damage even if it isn't popping out here and there.

After initial injury I was leg pressing 360+ lbs and doing 130+ lbs on the leg curl. I'd say my leg was in the top 2% based on strength in the country. I still ended up popping out my knee while hiking. I was conscious of the knee every step of the way and it still popped out in very light hiking/walking.

From someone that waited for 30 months after initial injury to get the surgery, I can tell you I am paying for waiting. I'm having a hard time getting hyperextension and I can only guess it's because I waited and ultimately messed up my meniscus when it popped out on that hike. Hopefully all will be great soon, as I am hoping to get back to law enforcement.

So, yeah.. I'd say you are an idiot if you don't get it fixed. You're playing with risks of damaging other things, developing arthritis, etc.

1000-Oaks · May 1, 2004

Mmmmm, tasty!

PolarBearWY · May 1, 2004

Damn!!! Don't go to a doctor that thinks that is today's standard. Gotta hand it to whomever stitched up mine with that "running stitch." One gentle pull and they were all out.

1000-Oaks · May 2, 2004

I'm not looking forward to having the staples removed, it's gotta hurt and bleed like heck...the doctor is supposed to be pretty good, not the best around (that guy works on olympian-caliber athletes but doesn't take HMO insurance) but he's said to be pretty good.

On a brighter note, I WALKED WITHOUT CRUTCHES TODAY! Slowly and carefully, but I walked about a hundred yards! Didn't want to stop, kept going in circles in the parking lot. Was almost teary-eyed, so damn excited to be walking after only two days after reconstruction...

PolarBearWY · May 3, 2004

When I hear reconstruction, I usually think of 2+ areas messed up and fixed. What did you have done? Where in the world are you located?

1000-Oaks · May 6, 2004

Originally posted by 1000-Oaks
On a brighter note, I WALKED WITHOUT CRUTCHES TODAY! Slowly and carefully, but I walked about a hundred yards!

And of course, the following Monday my doctor sternly reminded me that I SHOULD NOT BE WALKING WITHOUT WEARING THE STRAIGHT-LEG BRACE, and that I could have easily torn out the graft pulling this little stunt. Cripes, what the HELL was I thinking...IDIOT! Seems to be okay, but he won't be able to check for a month or so. (just testing it could pull out the graft)

1000-Oaks · May 6, 2004

Originally posted by PolarBearWY
When I hear reconstruction, I usually think of 2+ areas messed up and fixed. What did you have done? Where in the world are you located?

It's a "reconstruction" anytime a ligament is destroyed and is recreated using another ligament or tendon.

Los Angeles

1000-Oaks · May 6, 2004

Originally posted by PolarBearWY
Damn!!! Don't go to a doctor that thinks that is today's standard. Gotta hand it to whomever stitched up mine with that "running stitch." One gentle pull and they were all out.

The doc told me the staples hold the skin together better, with less chance for tearing. They actually came out really easily and almost painlessly, the doc has a little tool that spreads out the staple. Pretty amazing.

PolarBearWY · May 7, 2004

Originally posted by 1000-Oaks
The doc told me the staples hold the skin together better, with less chance for tearing. They actually came out really easily and almost painlessly, the doc has a little tool that spreads out the staple. Pretty amazing.

LOL. That's my point. I have NEVER heard that and have been a certified EMT since '95 and spent 2 yrs as an ER EMT. Case in point, I'm lucky to be located in SE Wyoming, within a few miles of the guy who invented and developed the ACL reconstruction. Can't remember his name now. He had been doing it for 30+ years. He may have been one of the best at his technique, but he never bothered to learn how to do orthoscopic work, because he thought his technique was the best. After the appointment I never called him back. (I'm sure you can find at least one person in the world that will swear that the horse and carriage are still the best method of travel)

... that I could have easily torn out the graft pulling this little stunt.

What did you have done? Just an ACL? It's amazing the differences in doctor practices. I was walking around under nurse's instruction within 30 minutes of waking up from the anestesia (gotta love spinal!!) and my doc had me using a stair machine and a bike in the 2nd week.

Maybe the only important factor is getting the knee fixed, but how many people have you met that have only had one knee surgery? Not very many. (For all that may be reading this that haven't yet fixed their knees) Shop around before getting any local schmo' to fix your knee. There are dozens of techniques out there. Pick a doctor that uses the techniques you feel are best, not what they think is best. It's your knee. It's your money. It's their arrogance. Doctor's are the most arrogant bunch in society.

I have 3 round scars that are about 1/4" in diameter and a scar that is about 1" long. On the graft knee, I have a 1-1/2" scar. I'm still "beautiful" and I was walking without braces, casts, or any assistance within half an hour.

Everyone... do yourself a favor and shop for your doc.

Motionboy2 · May 7, 2004

Holy! WOW!! 1000 Oaks.. I should have taken a picture of mine when it was still fresh, about a week and a half ago. I just have 4 small incisions. I didn't even have any stitches! I am walking without crutches now around the house, and around work but any distance and I take 1 crutch with me.
I can drive now and that is the most liberating thing ever.

I assume you did the patteller tendon graft? That scar is going to be incredible. Did you loose feeling in part of your knee?

PolarBearWY · May 7, 2004

Originally posted by Motionboy2
Holy! WOW!! 1000 Oaks.. I should have taken a picture of mine when it was still fresh, about a week and a half ago. I just have 4 small incisions. I didn't even have any stitches! I am walking without crutches now around the house, and around work but any distance and I take 1 crutch with me.
I can drive now and that is the most liberating thing ever.

I assume you did the patteller tendon graft? That scar is going to be incredible. Did you loose feeling in part of your knee?

I know you were directing your questions to 1000 Oaks, CA but I wanted to respond too, and then get your feedback.

I still have some sensation missing in my knees -- maybe 20%? I can "feel" everywhere on the knee, but parts of it are still a tad tingly. That's what I'm worried about with 1000 Oaks. Those doctors cut through a ton of nerves with that 5" incision. Do you still have issues with slight nerve damage? I have been told that it could take 6 months to heal, or never fully heal at all.

Motionboy, do you have any problems getting out of your car? I have a Honda Accord and for the first 2 months or so I had to help myself out with my arms. I'm just about at a point that I can get out of the car with my left foot on the ground (left knee got the ACL) and my hand pushing off the steering wheel. I'd like to get back to law enforcement (patrol) so I'm dying to be able to run and jump and I'm hoping to be able to hop out of a car quickly (soon).

Motionboy2 · May 8, 2004

Originally posted by PolarBearWY
I know you were directing your questions to 1000 Oaks, CA but I wanted to respond too, and then get your feedback.

I still have some sensation missing in my knees -- maybe 20%? I can "feel" everywhere on the knee, but parts of it are still a tad tingly. That's what I'm worried about with 1000 Oaks. Those doctors cut through a ton of nerves with that 5" incision. Do you still have issues with slight nerve damage? I have been told that it could take 6 months to heal, or never fully heal at all.

Motionboy, do you have any problems getting out of your car? I have a Honda Accord and for the first 2 months or so I had to help myself out with my arms. I'm just about at a point that I can get out of the car with my left foot on the ground (left knee got the ACL) and my hand pushing off the steering wheel. I'd like to get back to law enforcement (patrol) so I'm dying to be able to run and jump and I'm hoping to be able to hop out of a car quickly (soon).

I had my right leg worked on and I started driveing on Tuesday this week. I can get in and out just fine, not with any speed, but just fine otherwise. I have a lifted Jeep Cherokee, so It does take a little more effort to get my leg that high!
What kills me is how I talk to friends and they are telling me that they did this awesome ride and blah blah blah, then I say...I walked without crutches today!! :rolleyes:

I can't wait till i am done with this.
I lost about 1 square inch of feeling and it is already coming back. It has only been since the 19th. I have to say that I am extremely happy with the doctor that I had do my surgery.

1000-Oaks · May 8, 2004

Originally posted by Motionboy2
I assume you did the patteller tendon graft? That scar is going to be incredible. Did you loose feeling in part of your knee?

Yup, pattellar autograft. I had it done last Thursday and was driving to work the following Monday, though I can't say my gas-to-brake reaction time would have been all that great. I probably should have taken a few days off, but I've got a desk job.

Don't seem to have lost any feeling, it's still a little numb but it better every day.

1000-Oaks · May 8, 2004

Originally posted by PolarBearWY
What did you have done? Just an ACL? It's amazing the differences in doctor practices. I was walking around under nurse's instruction within 30 minutes of waking up from the anestesia (gotta love spinal!!) and my doc had me using a stair machine and a bike in the 2nd week.

He's probably just being overly cautious, can't say I blame him. I read online that the force needed to pull out pattellar bone plugs fixed with interference screws is typically 500-600 newtons, which seems like quite a bit. The bone tunnels fill in 4-6 weeks, after that the graft itself is the weakest link.

Repack · May 8, 2004

Originally posted by 1000-Oaks
He's probably just being overly cautious, can't say I blame him. I read online that the force needed to pull out pattellar bone plugs fixed with interference screws is typically 500-600 newtons, which seems like quite a bit. The bone tunnels fill in 4-6 weeks, after that the graft itself is the weakest link.

That is exactly what I was told. I was amazed to hear it. My first PT visit was ~9 days post-op. There I am, lying on my stomach as the guy is forcing my heal towards my ass. Hurt like hell. Then he told me about the stuff that you just posted, then I cried, then he stopped, only to begin the process over agian. My response was, "I'm paying you to torture me?" Those days were not fun.
He told me that the screws are designed to dissolve in ~6 weeks. I am pretty sure that I could actually feel it happening. About 5 weeks in, my knee started to feel a little less stable. There have been alot of normal ups and downs associated with the heeling process. A big part of it is as you can do more and more, you do so without thinking about your knee. I'm not talking crazt stuff, just stuff like cleaning house where you are walking around a lot, making a lot of short/sudden turns etc. It feels fine during the day, but at night was too sore to do anyting. This was the point where my brace really came in handy. But I'm past that opint now. ALready ridden the DH bike at PKill without any bad side effects. 4.5 months post-op and thankfully doing well.

Tenacious Doug · May 15, 2004

Originally posted by Tenacious Doug
I tore my ACL about 7-8 years ago now while playing rugby. At the time I was still growing so surgery was not an option as it would have halted growth in my left leg leaving me a bit lopsided!

I undertook a period of intensive physiotherapy both at home and at the hospital, after a while (I cant remember time periods, its a long way back now) I was back on the bike, at first on the turbo trainer in my room, then on the road and finally on the MTB, not long down the line I bought a roadbike, it helped me even further. For a long period I had regular checkups at the hospital, I think it was over a period of 18 months. My (well respected) surgeon was pleased with my progress all along the recupuration path, he was keen to stress that I needed to get the muscles built up to compensate for the fact that I couldnt yet have surgery.

At the end of this 18 months I had another X Ray that confirmed I had stopped growing and surgery was now an option, however my surgeon was of the opinion that strength of the knee was so good that the benefit to be had from the surgery was small, he thought that anything was big enough to damage my new strong knee would also be major enough to damage a re-constructed knee. I was at a critical stage at school and it didnt seem the right thing to do, plus the benefits to be had were small.

One thing the surgeon did point out at this point was that I was going to get arthritis. He also made the point that whether I had the ACL re-constructed or not, I was going to get it. to be honest I am not sure of whether this was to do with the ACL damage or the cartilage damage that was done at the same time but all I know is that he was of the opinion that reconstruction would make no differnce to the onset of arthritis. (GiantDHRider take note)

Since then I can count on one hand the instances of instability I have had, in the last few years I have had one nasty crash of some North Shore that I actually think would have done in anyones good knee, that put me out of action a week. I dont ride with a brace, I have never felt the need, the knee is not instable, I dont see I would get any benefit from riding with a brace.

When I came off the North Shore last summer I ended up in the ER just to have it checked. The doctor checking it refused to believe that any surgeon would have advised me that surgery was not necessarily the best route to take and basically called me a liar. He did confirm that the acl was ruptured (not that I needed to know that) and that there was instability. I dont however doubt the opinion of my surgeon I got way back at the start, he is known and respected in the field and I never had reason to doubt him.

One thing that does cross my mind now is that in the time since I did this, I would imagine the surgery has advanced in some shape or form and I would guess this will give a greater chance of success and give me a stronger knee. What I dont see is how this is going to benefit me, the knee does not stop me doing anything I want to do, I ride DH, XC, play squash with my buddies, kick a football around. The only thing I miss is the rugby at which I was a pretty good player as a youth......but I am over that now, I started riding my bike more after I did my knee and that is my first love now (it was only joint first before!).

UPDATE:
Today was my first race of the season, 30 seconds into my first practice run this morning I came off akwardly and twisted it badly, for only the 3rd time in my life I was screaming in agony (the first when I did the knee 8 years ago, 2nd time last summer). Pain has gone and I have decent movement in it aswell as being able to hobble though I very much doubt I will be back on the bike for race runs tomorrow.....tried fitting my old knee brace but the swelling is so much so that it doesnt actually fit on.

Again its brought back the thought of surgery though I still think that as the instability is so rare (twice majorly in 8 years), its not worthwhile. I do however know that I will now only be riding with brace to prevent this happening again, I am also wondering about riding flats, though I hate them and cant ride for toffee with them on. Only problem is my old brace was made for me while I was still growing and may well be too small for me now, so a new one could be on the cards, almost certainly meaning that the new frame will have to be downgraded to something more cost effective but rather that than risk this happening again.

PolarBearWY · May 15, 2004

Originally posted by Tenacious Doug
Again its brought back the thought of surgery though I still think that as the instability is so rare (twice majorly in 8 years), its not worthwhile...

LMAO! No offense, but that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Instability isn't intermittent. It doesn't come and go. Your knee is instable -- ALL THE TIME. Every step you take, every twist you make, you are chancing this happening again. Every time it happens you risk tearing the MCL, PCL, cartilage (probably already messed up).

There is nothing preventing this from happening to you again at ANY time. It may happen on a first date. It may happen on your next "first race warmup of the season." 2 major instabilities in 8 years doesn't mean your knee will only pop out every 4 years.

This is the whole point of this thread. If your knee is screwed up and you want to do ANYTHING (even going up and down stairs) then you need to seriously consider having it fixed.

Tenacious Doug · May 15, 2004

Originally posted by PolarBearWY
LMAO! No offense, but that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Instability isn't intermittent. It doesn't come and go. Your knee is instable -- ALL THE TIME. Every step you take, every twist you make, you are chancing this happening again. Every time it happens you risk tearing the MCL, PCL, cartilage (probably already messed up).

There is nothing preventing this from happening to you again at ANY time. It may happen on a first date. It may happen on your next "first race warmup of the season." 2 major instabilities in 8 years doesn't mean your knee will only pop out every 4 years.

This is the whole point of this thread. If your knee is screwed up and you want to do ANYTHING (even going up and down stairs) then you need to seriously consider having it fixed.

If you read my previous post then you would be aware that my decisions on reconstruction surgery (or lack of) were based on a number of factors though majorly on the advice of a highly regarded knee specialist who felt the strength of my knee put me in a much more favourable position than the majority of patients and that I was not necessarily going to see a massive improvement as a result of reconstruction.

I do not believe its only going to happen in 8 years, you will also notice I said that I suffered MAJOR instability only twice in this period, I am well aware of the fact that I dont have the strongest of knees and that simple everyday activities put some element of strain on a part of my body that isnt as it was designed, do you think I am a total dumbass? In fact I find your claims of my ignorance to the situation quite rude, though it doesnt help that you have clearly not read my post properly. I tend not to take decisions on my health lightly and without advice from the best professionals I can find, my knee was no different.

PolarBearWY · May 15, 2004

Originally posted by Tenacious Doug
on the advice of a highly regarded knee specialist who felt the strength of my knee put me in a much more favourable position than the majority of patients

Obviously, I'd say the doc was wrong. It's your life -- do what you want. Look at the facts. You have already injured yourself in a "warmup." You will miss this race season. You are going to be hobbling around for a few days. The swelling is bad enough than you can't put your knee brace on. You have most likely further injured other parts of your knee. You will most likely have arthritis later in life.

...though it doesnt help that you have clearly not read my post properly.

I read it very well. I guess you and I simply define being in a "favorable situation" differently. Maybe your doc does too. Maybe your doc believes that as long as your leg won't literally fall off then you are in a "favorable situation." I'd get a 2nd opinion. Either way, every time you mess up your knee in a "MAJOR" way as you describe, more damage has been done. So, you are starting over and now need a 1st opinion again.

This will happen to you again. If you believe that the occasional pain, swelling, damage, and missing one of every four race seasons is acceptable, then you really are in a "favorable situation."

Strength shouldn't be an issue. As I mentioned in a post I was doing hamstring curls of nearly 150 lbs and was pressing the machine's max weight, about 380 lbs. I'm sure my legs were "strong" too, but I still found a doc that wanted to do the surgery. Actually, I didn't find a doc that didn't want to do the surgery. Now, I don't have to worry about it.

1000-Oaks · May 15, 2004

Originally posted by Repack
He told me that the screws are designed to dissolve in ~6 weeks.

I think they're called SYSORB screws, they take a year or two to be replaced with bone.

1000-Oaks · May 15, 2004

A 10.5 MB video of the wussy crash that took out my right ACL (why the HELL didn't I stay on the bike):

www.perssonoffroad.com/mtb/bb03d.mpg

Repack · May 19, 2004

Originally posted by 1000-Oaks
I think they're called SYSORB screws, they take a year or two to be replaced with bone.

It takes a lot less time than that. At my 6-week follow up, the tunnels were already hard to see on x-ray.

Motionboy2 · Aug 10, 2004

Has anyone tried these asterisk knee braces? I was thinking I may get one for the bad leg for next season. They are for moto riders, but hell, if they are comfy and they work, they have a lifetime warranty so i would never have to buy knee pads again.

http://www.mtbz.com/mountainboard_accessories/asterisk_cell.htm

Motionboy2 · Aug 11, 2004

crashing_sux said:
I've been running the Cell's all summer and they are the only thing allowing me to ride as I don't have a left ACL right now and wanted to have the surgery in the winter. They work great, although they aren't quite as good as the custom CTI-2's (that's what I've been told by people that have both) but they're much cheaper if your insurance won't cover the CTI's as mine won't.

One really nice thing is that they absolutely never slip in a crash so you end up with great knee protection, much better than a pad. They take a few rides to get comfortable and learn how to best lace them to fit your leg but once you get it dialed they are actually a lot more comfortable than knee braces and are nicer to pedal in as they actually have hinges designed to bend with your knee properly.

That is cool. I was thinking about picking up a set for next season. I think it would be good to be over protective next season even though I should be fine. Thanks for the review!

Anyone riding with a knee brace or ACL deficient?

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Calendar Dominator

Chimp

Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

Chimp

Calendar Dominator

Chimp

Calendar Dominator

Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Calendar Dominator

Monkey

Calendar Dominator