[slyfink]

Hah, exactly the reason why i am levitating in this thread. Mine is the 2012 Havoc UST wheelset. My guess is there would be no problem with the low spoke count (24 front/28 rear) - the spokes are straight (more tension possible) and the LB rims are carbon (allow even more tension). My guess is the wheels would be super strong!

my understanding is that high tension spokes+lower spoke count=more wonky wheel if a spoke should break (because more force is being directed through each spoke). But a carbon wheel should offset that effect due to its natural stiffness. To what extent, I do not know. and I'm not really willing to find out myself.

 

[squiby]

Hah, exactly the reason why i am levitating in this thread. Mine is the 2012 Havoc UST wheelset. My guess is there would be no problem with the low spoke count (24 front/28 rear) - the spokes are straight (more tension possible) and the LB rims are carbon (allow evebn more tension). My guess is the wheels would be super strong!

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. On the other hand no one is making a DH rim with that low of a spoke count. Enve is 32 and the Enve DH rims are even heavier than the LB DH rims and thinner so should have thicker walls. Easton makes the Haven in carbon with 24 spokes but no DH rim. You would think they would if it is stronger/lighter as they have the ability and the market isn't exactly flooded with carbon DH rims. Could it be too risky on the reliability front?

 

[squiby]

my understanding is that high tension spokes+lower spoke count=more wonky wheel if a spoke should break (because more force is being directed through each spoke). But a carbon wheel should offset that effect due to its natural stiffness. To what extent, I do not know. and I'm not really willing to find out myself.

I'm in the same boat but just on the fence. I think if I do give it a go I will go with the built up heavier DH version on the front also to make up for the lower spoke count. It is only about 70 grams heavier.

My buddy runs Enve rims on all his bikes but only ever had problems with the DH versions breaking. He rides the same trails on his trail bike at the same speeds but has never had a problem with the lighter versions breaking. He has broken about 3 or 4 of the DH rims. His theory is that the DH rims are TOO stiff and that is why they break easier for him. He thinks the lighter versions might flex easier without breaking so last longer.
Hmmmm....what to do.

 

[Jm_]

Few people on mtbr have had the chinese and other rims crack at the eyelets/spokeholes after a season or two. I'd think with less spokes you'd be increasing this chance. I think as a whole they make a much stiffer/stronger structure, but you start localizing stress more and all bets are off IMO. Go for it.

 

[hitar_potar]

By this logic, Havoc UST is a stupid wheelset! Cause the lower count of spokes would get the mentioned disadvantages on an aluminum rim as well. I think the Havoc wheels have the needed flex built-in. And also think LB knows what it's doing when offering rims with 24 holes. Easton told me the original havoc rim is 500g, give or take several g, which makes it the same or a tiny bit heavier than the DH LB. But the LB is a lot wider and stiffer. I find these to be advantages and guess the stiffness won't be too much since there are less than usual spokes. Also, the spokes are straight, not J-bent, which allow more tension to be used. I am planning on using a DH LB 490g for rear and a DH LB430g at the front.

 

[Jm_]

But easton, envy, etc, they all mold the spoke holes. LB/nextie do not.

 

[squiby]

Having higher spoke tension might make the wheel stiffer but could make the rim more likely to fail at the spoke holes...and that chance gets multiplied by having less spokes.

I asked LB further if the spoke holes are strong enough for a 24 spoke rim with downhill riding and they backed off recommending a 24 hole rim. They said the more spoke holes the stronger and that I should go 28 or 32. "Safety first."

Not what I wanted to hear but makes sense. You never know though it might hold up. You would have to keep a close eye on it.

I don't think I want to be worrying about my wheel failing when I'm charging into some chunder.

* I just realized I'm basically repeating what Jm said 3 posts back.

 

[hitar_potar]

Well, there's logic in that, yeah. But with my riding i have snapped 1 spoke at the front and 1 at the back, given it's the original Havoc rims which, according to many people, are more worthy of enduro than DH. My guess is i only need just a little bit stronger wheel which i think i'll get by using LBs.

 

[ianjenn]

Any of you guys had any luck running the 38mm DH variant or 35mm of these rims. Debating between them and ZTR's I can get the stanz for a fair amount less....

 

[Jm_]

Idk, but I'd trust a crack dealer before I trust stans.

 

[kidwoo]

Few people on mtbr have had the chinese and other rims crack.

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on, Imma back up a sec......

Did you really just say that as if it means something?

The population of mtbr has about as much to do with pounding on bikes as I do with pounding on porn stars.

Neither happens. Ever.

 

[Lelandjt]

All rims have been broken. Even by hacks on MTBR. I like the 26mm (or is it 27mm) rims on my DH bike. I have the 30mm ones on my Nomad (the ones you call 35mm). I like them too. If pressed I think the 26mm are better for DH. I guess you gotta decide how much you wanna spread the tire. I wouldn't want to go any wider than 30.

 

[Jm_]

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on, Imma back up a sec......

Did you really just say that as if it means something?

The population of mtbr has about as much to do with pounding on bikes as I do with pounding on porn stars.

Neither happens. Ever.

You are right, the rims come pre-cracked from the factory.

 

[4130biker]

You are right, the rims come pre-cracked from the factory.

Sounds expensive

 

[kidwoo]

You are right, the rims come pre-cracked from the factory.

I wasn't talking about the rims. I was talking about the test field.

 

[Jm_]

Proving my theory:

Guy on MTBR cracks nextie rims on rocks running 17psi.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I always inflate my rocks to at least 28 PGIG.

Proving my theory:

Guy on MTBR cracks nextie rims on rocks running 17psi.

 

[vinny4130]

Who uses 17psi on purpose? I'm not heavy but I don't see a trail/downduro/DH bike tire used with that low of pressure.

 

[Jm_]

Who uses 17psi on purpose? I'm not heavy but I don't see a trail/downduro/DH bike tire used with that low of pressure.

Let me show you the math:

Normal PSI with 2.0 tires, 35

PSI when using tubeless -5
PSI when using wide rims -3
PSI when using carbon rims -4
PSI using high volume tires -6

17.

With procore, you can drop another 10.

 

[Da Peach]

17 psi???

Maybe add 5 to 7 to the math for common sense factor?

Oh wait... I get it. Mtbr...

 

[vinny4130]

Let me show you the math:

Normal PSI with 2.0 tires, 35

PSI when using tubeless -5
PSI when using wide rims -3
PSI when using carbon rims -4
PSI using high volume tires -6

17.

With procore, you can drop another 10.

I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not.

 

[gemini2k]

I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not.

I pray to the lord baby jebus that he is.

 

[vinny4130]

And rox Jesus

 

[JimLad]

But teh small bump complianz!

 

[tomasis7]

Who uses 17psi on purpose? I'm not heavy but I don't see a trail/downduro/DH bike tire used with that low of pressure.

Don't forget you're dealing with MTBR! They ride 5kmph

 

[JustMtnB44]

I'm digging this thread up to see if anyone has additional feedback on their LB or Nextie rims, or any horror stories.

I'm debating between the newish asymmetric offerings from both companies for a new wheelset build for my Spitfire.
http://www.light-bicycle.com/EN728-asymmetric-rim-profile-carbon-27.5-inch-mtb-rims.html
http://www.nextie.net/mountain-asymmetric-NXT27AS33
I'm not sure if the LB rims are really worth $150 more for a pair than the Nexties. But coming from standard 20mm internal width rims, I was thinking of going closer to 30mm width than 25mm to see what all the wider is better fuss is about. I generally run 2.4 to 2.2 tires so it seems like I don't want to go over 30mm internal width.

 

[Jm_]

I have rims by both, they are both good. I have the Nexties laced up to 29er rims, even had a blowout and hit a rock pretty hard in CO last year with Leland and kicked up a few rocks onto them in AZ. AZ might be the one place where I'd think twice, if I was riding in SoMo chunk all the time. Rocks and stuff come out of no-where there. Still, they are running fine and have been for a few years. I have the LB rims on my fatbike. I like the shape of those rims better, as the spoke-bed is offset with the L and R spokes, making it a "wide stance" where each spoke bed is about 2" apart, I think that's probably better for support of the wide rim, as opposed to Nextie's fatbike rims, which line up both spoke beds together, making for some pretty crazy spoke-angles when used with wide hubs. People like the "deep dish" look of the Nexties better, but I don't think the design is better. They do angle the spoke holes supposedly now, but still...That said, this doesn't appear to be an issue on Nextie's skinny rims, so I ordered some 35mm 650b ones not too long ago. Haven't ridden, but I'd expect they'll hold up well. The tubeless profile on both is excellent. The LB ones are about 1.5 years old now and I'll ride those almost every day.

I'd highly suggest to start with 35mm rims, then go from there. 35 isn't as wide as you think and should work well with most modern tires, unless you are looking for a straight XC bike/hardtail, in which case I'd go 30. I did the same thing as you and I thought I didn't want crazy wide 38-40mm rims, and I still don't, but I do think 30 was a little too skinny.

 

[JustMtnB44]

I'd highly suggest to start with 35mm rims, then go from there. 35 isn't as wide as you think and should work well with most modern tires, unless you are looking for a straight XC bike/hardtail, in which case I'd go 30. I did the same thing as you and I thought I didn't want crazy wide 38-40mm rims, and I still don't, but I do think 30 was a little too skinny.

Are you talking internal or external widths? I clarified my post that all numbers I mentioned are internal. There is also a 32mm internal width option from Nextie, but I was on the fence about it being too wide. I was considering running the i32 front and the i26 rear, because if I was going to run a tire narrower than 2.35/2.4 it would be on the rear.

http://www.nextie.net/mountain-asymmetric-wild-cat-NXT27WC38

 

[wood booger]

Who uses 17psi on purpose? I'm not heavy but I don't see a trail/downduro/DH bike tire used with that low of pressure.

I do on a 165mm bike.

Summer pressures were 17 front/19 rear with 32mm internal rims and Speshy grid casing. It is magic.

Winter is 23 front/25 rear just to keep from folding in berms with the hero dirt, brah.

 

[Nick]

@JustMtnB44 : I have the LB 30mm internal, "AM" beadless rim with a more DH layup. Only two rides on them so I can't comment on longevity but the width seems excellent with 2.4 tires. I came off 819s.

 

[Sandwich]

Hey Justin,
I went with these: http://www.xmcarbonspeed.com/Productinfo.asp?f=1280 from that vendor. I paid $364 shipped to my door. It took about a week, maybe less. Peter was the guy behind XMI-play and now vends the same open mold stuff on his own.

So far, they have been awesome. They built up super true, were round and true out of the box, and I had no issues with them. They built tubeless (something I've never done) superbly with two rounds of kapton tape and 2/4oz of stan's. They have held true for the first several rides and I had dave re-tension them recently.

I haven't had any complaints but I don't have that much time on them. The only thing I would have done differently is to have gone with a 1.5ply/grid casing instead of the ultralight butcher/slaughter combo i have now. Rotating weight is next to zero but with no tube the tires feel pretty flimsy and I don't like to run low pressure. I stick around what I call 24 psi, but really it's slightly squishier by hand than I would be running with tubes.

Very happy with my rims.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Been running Nancy's carbon rims since summer 2013. Cracked one of the old version-1.0 narrow rims and had to upgrade to the "wider" AM version.

I like them. Would buy again.

 

[rideit]

I forget, is Nancy with LB?

 

[amishmatt]

Yeah, "Nancy" is with Light Bicycle.

I've been on the LB 35 external/30 internal AM layup rims built on I9 hubs with Sapim laser spokes for going on two years without a single issue. The rear wheel looks pretty rough, from scrapes on rocks, but otherwise they've been perfect.

Never been trued, haven't needed it, that's a first for me.

 

[rideit]

That's right, Nancy Lee....

 

[SkaredShtles]

Yeah, "Nancy" is with Light Bicycle.

I've been on the LB 35 external/30 internal AM layup rims built on I9 hubs with Sapim laser spokes for going on two years without a single issue. The rear wheel looks pretty rough, from scrapes on rocks, but otherwise they've been perfect.

Never been trued, haven't needed it, that's a first for me.

The way they stay true is impressive. I ordered mine with aero spokes (mistake #1) and on one of the first rides I broke a couple spokes on the rear wheel about half-way through. That rim stayed dead-true for another ten rowdy miles.

 

[rollertoaster]

I'm going into my 3rd year with my lb 35mm rims. Today I snapped a spoke from trying to power up a nasty rocky climb, replaced the spoke and the wheel is a straight and strong as ever.
I also have a set of 38mm on my tr500 (popped one rim which was warranteed due to a delamination defect), and a set of 50mm on my mutz which have all been awesome.

Ask Amish Matt how I ride. It isn't what you'd call smooth....

 

[Jm_]

Idk, but I'd trust a crack dealer before I trust stans.

Public service announcement:

New old-stock Stans aluminum rotors available: http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/stans-lightweight-rotors-who-remembers-those-2nd-gen-versions-1005584.html

Looking for the right home...

 

[blackohio]

Im building the 38mm 29r dh wheelset up to i9 centerlocks, any spoke recommendations. One bike to do it all kinda thing.

 

[squiby]

I just broke my third rear rim in 6 months...the old enduro 35mm rim. Going to give the DH layup a shot.