Anyone seen this? Works 888
- Thread starter SebringMGB
- Start date
the ad was in the last issue of MBA, nothing too fancy but cool idea.
Hm.... Interesting
But what are the major advantages?
But what are the major advantages?
you probably get a WORKS sticker!, that takes 3 seconds of run times you know
.
either you are missing the point with push and avalanche or i have things dead wrong
i wouldnt compare this "works" offering with a push or avalanche setup at all.
once again its the "tuner" v/s tuner thing
lessee
can be done by any user just by using the fork a bit
fine tuning the oil and buying fancier oil than stock, hmm can also be done back home
no comments
this might be a bit useful if you dont have access to springs where you are, makes the upgrade a bit cheaper as you dont have to shop for springs and fork
no comments
the only thing that might turn out to be an advantage over having a good suspension mechanic at any lbs set up your fork is
maybe that is something that carries over into a performance benefit, who knows.
all in all it has all the look and feel of a well set up fork, not a tuned fork or anyting, remember, the valving doesnt change.
sounds pretty much like this is like the diff between a well set up boxxer WC and a stock boxxer team
Nothing fancy as in, its been done before. I just think its funny how this is all soooooo cool to mountain bikers, dirt biker's have had all these "custom tuned" setups for years now, I've always said mtn bike suspension needs to copy dirt bike stuff, valving stacks that actually do something and can be tuned for each individual rider, bike, riding style. More places like PUSH would pop up, we tried it years back but the suspension just wasn't worth working on like that, and the interest was lacking, people had no idea what we meant by custom tuning a shock or fork for each individual rider, riding style, etc.
All I am saying is I think its cool, but nothing amazingly fancy.
yeah...but lest we forget all the hype about getting your boxxer "tuned", which included all of the same "modifications" for the most part....
(oh yeah, it'd be a cold day in hell before I got this "works" 888 over a regular one...well it IS a regular one)
(oh yeah, it'd be a cold day in hell before I got this "works" 888 over a regular one...well it IS a regular one)
hehe a bit bitter, but yea youre right, its the same thing save for those drillings and so on but, yea.
I do agree with you, since the tuning thing is all the rage right now, but its still just an 888 with just a bit of extra work done.
As vitox stated lots of these tunings can be easily done at home. Im riding a Factory Works WB fork, and it has custom oil, and shimstacks in the damping leg, and custom spring work in the right leg, far more than what this 888 Works is
about a 130lbs guy who does DH racing, at least thats how my Super Ts and Shivers all came
I want mine tuned for fast loose dirt drops with soft wet rocky landings.
hey, maybe its not all bad considering alot of people dont know about basic tuning. This one guy i was riding wth today had a 888 which he was only getting 50% travel out of. He figured he just wasent riding fast enough to use the rest. Why get an 8" travel fork when your only using 5"?
youre of course right about the importance of correct setup, the point though was that this usd200-over-retail program is basically just proper setup, that probably can be done faster and cheaper by lots of skilled mechanics all over the place.
as a consequence of the former, there should also be a good number of people that can benefit a lot from this program, that is, riders in places where access to such a mechanic isnt good.
well its easy money for Marzocchi
definately not worth it if you have slight idea, how to setup stuff
which you really should do when you get a new fork anyway
definately not worth it if you have slight idea, how to setup stuff
which you really should do when you get a new fork anyway
uhhgg...didnt realise the cost. Thats robbery...
This kind of falls into the realm that made everyone commenting on this start working on their own bikes in the first place.
A friend of mine bought a bike from me a while ago that had a z1 on it. The seals needed replacing and he was losing oil. One of the only remotely competent shops where he lives wanted $150 to change the seals and oil. I showed him how to do it with a borrowed seal tool and he couldn't believe it.
I would absolutely agree with vitox, there's only one real "upgrade" feature that can't be done by anyone with any experience. But that's why downhillers work on their own equipment so much more than xc riders isn't it? We'd go broke paying someone to tune every little feature. This 888 option is just one more reason to learn about your toys. Buy the freakin stantions and DIY.
so uh .........anybody know what the stantions alone cost?
A friend of mine bought a bike from me a while ago that had a z1 on it. The seals needed replacing and he was losing oil. One of the only remotely competent shops where he lives wanted $150 to change the seals and oil. I showed him how to do it with a borrowed seal tool and he couldn't believe it.
I would absolutely agree with vitox, there's only one real "upgrade" feature that can't be done by anyone with any experience. But that's why downhillers work on their own equipment so much more than xc riders isn't it? We'd go broke paying someone to tune every little feature. This 888 option is just one more reason to learn about your toys. Buy the freakin stantions and DIY.
so uh .........anybody know what the stantions alone cost?
So does anyone know how the 888 is set up stock? What weight rider and what type of riding style is it set up for?
I think my 888 if perfect. I weigh 180 and use it for everything from XC to DH. I have only bottomed it out 2 times since I got it at the end of last year. It seems pretty good to me.
I think my 888 if perfect. I weigh 180 and use it for everything from XC to DH. I have only bottomed it out 2 times since I got it at the end of last year. It seems pretty good to me.
Who was that?!
(I bet the answer won't surprise me)
Yep, I think it comes stock for something like 170-190 weight range or so. I weigh right around 170 and I could not imagine it being any better.
The 888 is just amazing at speed. It makes you forget all about the front end. I have went on an on about other forks that I have had, and what I liked about them, and what I did not, but now I have seen the light. In stock form, the 888 is the best upgrade I have made to my bike in as long as I can remember.
As far as the custom tuning, I could see where it would be useful
for some rich dude who does DH runs on the weekends, and does not have time to work on his stuff or read through message boards for tips. Either that or somebody who has a very different riding style or a really high or low weight.
The Marz. sponsership guys are giggling in delight right now.. Can you hear them?
No, my giggling drowns there giggling out.Originally posted by binary visions
The Marz. sponsership guys are giggling in delight right now.. Can you hear them?
Its funny you should mention giggling, because I am always laughing while I ride. Ask anybody who rides with me.
I constantly scare myself, and if I save it, I laugh quite obnoxiously down the trail. Its either very funny or very annoying to ride with me depending on your personality.
You pack of monkeys...here's some info about this 888 works fork.
First off, has anybody here ever had a full factory DH ride?
Have you ever had a Pro suspension tuner work with you and your suspension?
If so, you know that this is an invaluable benifit that can't be overlooked. I personally have tuned for over 10 National and 4-5 World Championship Title holders at a Professional level. I only say this because, I put together this service program, I'm one of the techs. The other suspension techs that are performing this service are more skilled in fork tuning, set-up, and the finer details of the assembly process than anybody. We are not guessing....
Here's some more info into the details of this service.
Bushings and shaft polishing....
This requires a complete dis-assembly of the fork which will require new seals, your cost if you choose to do it yourself - $40.00 retail. You will also need a fixture to polish the bushings with, the correct compounds and time - you do this yourself - get a quote. We use a lathe to polish our Works fork components - cost - 4k plus tooling. You will also need a few special tools(to insure good quality) - your cost - $110.00USD
running tally (the right way) - $4150.00USD
"Special Oil" - $40.00USD - and a secret blend.
Spring swap for your weight and style - $20USD min.
Special compression valving and adapter - $30.00USD for the adapter - knowing how to use it = priceless. 2005 valving....it's availible Jan 2005 (that's next year )
The biggest thing you get from these service is something that isn't offered from most, you get a personal tuner to work with you. The tech will be your tech thoughout the life of your fork or the tech's, which ever comes first. These techs have more knowledge than anybody on dialing a 888.
This tech will keep a detailed info work sheet on your settings and changes being made. A copy of the form will be sent out with the fork so that the rider can make notes, note settings, and create a traveling tuning sheet that will follow this fork when ever it is serviced or changed. Needless to say there could be some down time when it comes to having us service or tune your fork but, these forks will not follow the normal waiting period when they arrive in the tech department. They will be tuned/serviced the same day they are recieved.
So without factoring in the time my techs are going to consume talking and trouble shooting, you are getting more than $4200.00USD of special services....for a mere 2 bills more.
And...the show stopper...if the tech damages anything when working on the fork, you don't pay. If you damage it...sorry.
Sorry for being harsh but after reading two pages of "I can do it for nothing as good as they can BS", I'm a bit chaffed. This is worth every penny.
Oh yeah...and you get cool new stickers (BNG) for the fork! Now that's over the top, eh?
First off, has anybody here ever had a full factory DH ride?
Have you ever had a Pro suspension tuner work with you and your suspension?
If so, you know that this is an invaluable benifit that can't be overlooked. I personally have tuned for over 10 National and 4-5 World Championship Title holders at a Professional level. I only say this because, I put together this service program, I'm one of the techs. The other suspension techs that are performing this service are more skilled in fork tuning, set-up, and the finer details of the assembly process than anybody. We are not guessing....
Here's some more info into the details of this service.
Bushings and shaft polishing....
This requires a complete dis-assembly of the fork which will require new seals, your cost if you choose to do it yourself - $40.00 retail. You will also need a fixture to polish the bushings with, the correct compounds and time - you do this yourself - get a quote. We use a lathe to polish our Works fork components - cost - 4k plus tooling. You will also need a few special tools(to insure good quality) - your cost - $110.00USD
running tally (the right way) - $4150.00USD
"Special Oil" - $40.00USD - and a secret blend.
Spring swap for your weight and style - $20USD min.
Special compression valving and adapter - $30.00USD for the adapter - knowing how to use it = priceless. 2005 valving....it's availible Jan 2005 (that's next year
)The biggest thing you get from these service is something that isn't offered from most, you get a personal tuner to work with you. The tech will be your tech thoughout the life of your fork or the tech's, which ever comes first. These techs have more knowledge than anybody on dialing a 888.
This tech will keep a detailed info work sheet on your settings and changes being made. A copy of the form will be sent out with the fork so that the rider can make notes, note settings, and create a traveling tuning sheet that will follow this fork when ever it is serviced or changed. Needless to say there could be some down time when it comes to having us service or tune your fork but, these forks will not follow the normal waiting period when they arrive in the tech department. They will be tuned/serviced the same day they are recieved.
So without factoring in the time my techs are going to consume talking and trouble shooting, you are getting more than $4200.00USD of special services....for a mere 2 bills more.
And...the show stopper...if the tech damages anything when working on the fork, you don't pay. If you damage it...sorry.
Sorry for being harsh but after reading two pages of "I can do it for nothing as good as they can BS", I'm a bit chaffed. This is worth every penny.
Oh yeah...and you get cool new stickers (BNG) for the fork! Now that's over the top, eh?
well you know soul rider when you explain it that way it sounds like you put a lot of thinking in the design of that program.
thanks for the info about the polishing procedure, it was very enlightening, but i have a vital doubt left,
say if we put two 888`s one works and another stock, and had a guy use them for a month or so, will there be any difference in the smoothness of the bushings after that period?
in the end its really about who you want to pay, marzocchis tuner or another tuner, i would tend to think that if you have reasonable access to a good tuner then even if he doesnt get things marvellously right the first time, it might be easier to do changes to the setup when you dont have to send the fork anywhere.
anyways, thanks for the info, straight from the horses mouth is always appreciated
btw, no mention about the stanchions!
thanks for the info about the polishing procedure, it was very enlightening, but i have a vital doubt left,
say if we put two 888`s one works and another stock, and had a guy use them for a month or so, will there be any difference in the smoothness of the bushings after that period?
in the end its really about who you want to pay, marzocchis tuner or another tuner, i would tend to think that if you have reasonable access to a good tuner then even if he doesnt get things marvellously right the first time, it might be easier to do changes to the setup when you dont have to send the fork anywhere.
anyways, thanks for the info, straight from the horses mouth is always appreciated
btw, no mention about the stanchions!
Don't get chapped just because most of the services sound like the things that most of us do to our forks anyway. That's why these boards exist.
I admit the lathe buff is certainly nothing I can closely duplicate at my house or bike shop. Zokes in general get really smooth with age (like me) and some people were just questioning the validity of throwing down the $$ for the service.
I think it's a valid concern.
Let's not forget how much more expensive regular fork oil gets when you guys throw it in a marzocchi bottle.
Regardless, thanks for the info.
I admit the lathe buff is certainly nothing I can closely duplicate at my house or bike shop. Zokes in general get really smooth with age (like me) and some people were just questioning the validity of throwing down the $$ for the service.
I think it's a valid concern.
Let's not forget how much more expensive regular fork oil gets when you guys throw it in a marzocchi bottle.
Regardless, thanks for the info.
I spoke at length about this fork with Marzocchi USA yesterday. Here is what I found:
There is NO 2005 valving
There is NO upgraded stancions
I told them that thier website claimed the above, the guy didn't believe me, so I directed him to the website while on the phone. His only response was that they would have to correct it (he was cool about it).
What you get is oil, spring change if necessary and some set-up. No mention of polished bushings/seals etc...
Hope this helps clear some things up.
There is NO 2005 valving
There is NO upgraded stancions
I told them that thier website claimed the above, the guy didn't believe me, so I directed him to the website while on the phone. His only response was that they would have to correct it (he was cool about it).
What you get is oil, spring change if necessary and some set-up. No mention of polished bushings/seals etc...
Hope this helps clear some things up.
If all things go as described then it's a great deal. If the turnaround is longer than stated even by a few days, it is questionable. I still think the 888 is the best realistic use of technology to make a top notch DH fork. The Dorado is overly technofied with all the carbonium, unobtanium, Invertization and what not. I like Dorados but I think that like the Supernova and Dorado SC they are over engineered and therefore expensive, I run a Sherman Slider+ SPV because it is the king of "bang for yer buck" but the 888 is next in line and ultimately a better fork. Now make a light/adjustable (not ECC or ETA) 5" SC like that Talas and we'll talk...Z1's are way heavy!
UPDATE!!!! Straight from R&D tech director ME....
Wow, now I need to clarify...2005 valving is indeed a heavier compression valve stack and the position activation ports have been moved. That is the 2005 valve spec...
There is also an extra insert that allows the position activation holes to be moved and/or changed. I will inform the sales crew, srry for the misdirection
The nitrate coated stanchions are currently not an option but polishing to the stock legs will be in effect instead. Sorry for leaving that out the first time. We possibly will still have a new stanchion...it's still in process.
To answer your question about taking a stock fork and a buffed out fork still will not operate the same after a few months. Pro built dialed settings, dialed oil height, dialed everything. That and two months of detailed trouble shooting set-up with a pro suspension tech will indeed be better than any off the shelf stock 888.
you're not talking about that thing you posted on here a year or two ago about tuning '03 Monster T's are you? The reason everyone on here poo-poo'ed that idea isn't b/c they don't know what custom tuning is, it's b/c a 12-13lb MonsterT is a rare and poor choice for a race fork.... if that's not what you're referring to, then ignore this...
Cool. Thanks for the straight scoop. Can current 888 owners send in for upgrade? If so, what's estimated turn-around time? Thanks again. Always good to hear from folks in the know.
undoubtedly, word of the day!
thanks for the answer but that wasnt quite what i meant, i was strictly referring to the bushings, specifically i wanted to know if the factory buffing process meant any difference other than a shorter break in period
i cannot but agree with you on that at this point "your techs" have a better understanding of this fork than anyone else, but then again i would expect you to agree that this is only part of the equation of tuning a fork for a customer. any local tech could have a better communication with the client, understanding of the local terrain, etc etc. this leads me to think your works program is a valid option that might have a big appeal to many riders in part because of marzos credibility, but still, its an option.
btw tom, do the spring rates change for 2005? any news on a shorter stem for the 888?
i dont remember his name, some franco-dude that rides with Rob, rides a new Norco from the shop. It might be the 888rt with the crappy dampers which also may be limiting his travel though. I told him to take it to the shop for a free oil height tuning (ha ha ya right...)Originally posted by ChrisRobin
Who was that?!
(I bet the answer won't surprise me)
For you peps that already have 888 and want them to have the magic touch it's roughly $300.00 USD. With this you will get all of the above mentioned.
Your 2004 cartridges will have to be replaced, in which you will get them back for spares. There's the added cost for the new cartridges, position adjustable compression sleeeve, new seals....along with having to disassemble and clean your current fork...and you get a suspension tech for the life of your fork!
The estimated turn around is 7-10 days for the initial change out and set-up. After that, it's same day service.
First off....you guys are such a geeky bunch of know it alls.
Soul Rider is absolutely right and the program is a fantastic option.
Soul Rider, any idea how many 888's you guys have sold?
Say roughly 500 for this little example.
Now, say 1/10 of those forks were bought online. That's 50 forks that are gonna get full retail charged for any tuning by the LBS and will easily drop $100-200 on service at a dealer.
Next, say there is 1 single mechanic in each town that knows how to custom tune an internally damped coil spring fork to your weight and riding style. That's about 200-300 forks that have a shot of getting the perfect service the first time around.
That means about 100-150 of 500 forks sold (set to a generic, acceptable rider weight/terrain style factory setting) will be wrong for the rider's weight and riding style.
Now factor in ordering the right springs, getting the right oil height, the number of times you take it back apart or take it back to the LBS to tune it perfect and also the number of rides it will take to get it near perfect.....
...and I'd say you got 50-60 riders out there with 888's tuned perfectly to their weight, riding style and personal preferences.
That's around 10% of the TOTAL customer base that gets the full benefit of the forks capability...i.e. 90% of us will have to settle for less.
Soul Rider is offering to take everything he and the guys who put together this work of art, apply it to what you as an individual need, and set in your hands a fork set up exactly for you.
And he's offering to hold your hand through the whole process, even after the sale. That is a ridiculously awesome service for the price.
All of you can act like you got it down pat and know all the inner workings of a 888 and are suspension gurus with the knowledge of years of tuning this particular style fork....but the truth is, that's about 1% of the people who will use this fork in the end.
The rest could truly benefit from what he's offering. They don't even have to offer it...but they have gone that extra mile for their customers by even putting the program out there. Imagine the headaches they are inviting by taking on such an extensive and utterly comprehensive program.
Thank you(this rant was caffeine induced)
Soul Rider is absolutely right and the program is a fantastic option.
Soul Rider, any idea how many 888's you guys have sold?
Say roughly 500 for this little example.
Now, say 1/10 of those forks were bought online. That's 50 forks that are gonna get full retail charged for any tuning by the LBS and will easily drop $100-200 on service at a dealer.
Next, say there is 1 single mechanic in each town that knows how to custom tune an internally damped coil spring fork to your weight and riding style. That's about 200-300 forks that have a shot of getting the perfect service the first time around.
That means about 100-150 of 500 forks sold (set to a generic, acceptable rider weight/terrain style factory setting) will be wrong for the rider's weight and riding style.
Now factor in ordering the right springs, getting the right oil height, the number of times you take it back apart or take it back to the LBS to tune it perfect and also the number of rides it will take to get it near perfect.....
...and I'd say you got 50-60 riders out there with 888's tuned perfectly to their weight, riding style and personal preferences.
That's around 10% of the TOTAL customer base that gets the full benefit of the forks capability...i.e. 90% of us will have to settle for less.
Soul Rider is offering to take everything he and the guys who put together this work of art, apply it to what you as an individual need, and set in your hands a fork set up exactly for you.
And he's offering to hold your hand through the whole process, even after the sale. That is a ridiculously awesome service for the price.
All of you can act like you got it down pat and know all the inner workings of a 888 and are suspension gurus with the knowledge of years of tuning this particular style fork....but the truth is, that's about 1% of the people who will use this fork in the end.
The rest could truly benefit from what he's offering. They don't even have to offer it...but they have gone that extra mile for their customers by even putting the program out there. Imagine the headaches they are inviting by taking on such an extensive and utterly comprehensive program.
Thank you(this rant was caffeine induced)
Haha yeah not what I was talking about. I was more refering to shock technology then fork. For almost a year we offered rebuilds and revalves (what little tweaking was possible) for Fox and RS shocks. We did a few local rebuilds and tweaked a few valving setups but the interest wasnt there, the shop was setup for working on MX stuff so setup time was huge, which caused us to through the idea out the window and stick to MX stuff. Fork "tuning" is a lot harder to do because crap varies soo much from one manufact. to another. Finally everyone is starting to move away from stupid holes drilled in a tube as a damper, which is making tuning more possible. Still have a way to go before tuning can be anything like with MX stuff but hey moving in the right direction.Originally posted by DßR
you're not talking about that thing you posted on here a year or two ago about tuning '03 Monster T's are you? The reason everyone on here poo-poo'ed that idea isn't b/c they don't know what custom tuning is, it's b/c a 12-13lb MonsterT is a rare and poor choice for a race fork.... if that's not what you're referring to, then ignore this...