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Anyone use an Ochain thingy?

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,378
198
Vancouver
I was thinking about it for the DH bike to let the rear end be a little bit more efficient.

Also, why don't we see floating brakes anymore?
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,098
1,058
I had one on my last enduro bike, and just sold it because I didn't feel like I needed it for the new bike. Blister has a pretty good, in-depth review of it also (came out after I got mine). I think they're really nice for bikes with certain kinematic traits, but not necessary for others. The bike I had it on had a lot of pedal kickback and high anti-rise throughout the travel. My newer bike has both those traits drop off pretty dramatically starting around 50% travel. The OChain felt like it helped reduce foot fatigue on fast, medium hits (like brake bumps), and correspondingly was able to add a bit more damping.

That said, I much prefer the feel of my newer bike with more balanced kinematics to the old bike's firmer kinematic coupled with OChain trying to take the edge off.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,378
198
Vancouver
I had one on my last enduro bike, and just sold it because I didn't feel like I needed it for the new bike. Blister has a pretty good, in-depth review of it also (came out after I got mine). I think they're really nice for bikes with certain kinematic traits, but not necessary for others. The bike I had it on had a lot of pedal kickback and high anti-rise throughout the travel. My newer bike has both those traits drop off pretty dramatically starting around 50% travel. The OChain felt like it helped reduce foot fatigue on fast, medium hits (like brake bumps), and correspondingly was able to add a bit more damping.

That said, I much prefer the feel of my newer bike with more balanced kinematics to the old bike's firmer kinematic coupled with OChain trying to take the edge off.
Just read it. Overall, they were "meh" about it, unless you were riding in fast choppy terrain.
 

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,595
1,087
La Verne
yeah god knows getting on the brakes hard has nothing to do with leaning back
I'm saying that it's silly that they push anti rise as pulling the rear of the bike down "to maintain geometry"

What so 8lbs of wheel, swing arm, brake, casette$shifter are supposed to counteract forward weight transfer of a 140-200+lb rider and the other 20 something lbs of bike?
Nah come on.....

High antrise will just pack the rear end on braking bumps,
Race car vehicle dynamics talks about a condition where the wheel has traction then rises, loosing traction, begins skidding as it's unloaded, then as traction and antirise forces are lost, the wheel lowers regains traction, in a cycle. Seems more like a pavement thing that you might get on a road race or autocross car with an SRA with 3 or 4 link and high antisquat.

I haven't necessarily experienced this on a bike but on a motorcycle In some conditions at medium to low speed i can make the bike do it.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,030
20,917
Sleazattle
I'm saying that it's silly that they push anti rise as pulling the rear of the bike down "to maintain geometry"

What so 8lbs of wheel, swing arm, brake, casette$shifter are supposed to counteract forward weight transfer of a 140-200+lb rider and the other 20 something lbs of bike?
Nah come on.....

High antrise will just pack the rear end on braking bumps,
Race car vehicle dynamics talks about a condition where the wheel has traction then rises, loosing traction, begins skidding as it's unloaded, then as traction and antirise forces are lost, the wheel lowers regains traction, in a cycle. Seems more like a pavement thing that you might get on a road race or autocross car with an SRA with 3 or 4 link and high antisquat.

I haven't necessarily experienced this on a bike but on a motorcycle In some conditions at medium to low speed i can make the bike do it.
The dynamics between a DH bike and race car have to follow the same rules but a long vehicle with a low center of gravity on mostly flat ground with extremely high levels of traction is going to have to deal with much higher contributions of rear braking forces than a relatively short DH bike with a high center of gravity on steep grades and low traction. Not to mention a DH bike carries the majority of mass in a large wad of meat that is actively moving around just as much as the suspension itself.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
8,127
5,978
UK
"STOP COMPARING HEAVY HIGH POWERED MOTOR VEHICLES TO BICYCLES"

Shouldn't even need saying.. .but so often does. *sigh*
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
8,127
5,978
UK
i rather have the wrp centrehub
THIS

Despite tens of thousands of miles experience on Shimano E bike motors with a freewheeling* crank spider I'd still rather have neither an O-chain or WRP
But if I had to have one, fuck elastomers!

* the greatest improvement is chain retention rather than foot stability or suspension performance from percieved reduction in pedal kickback
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,098
1,058
I'm saying that it's silly that they push anti rise as pulling the rear of the bike down "to maintain geometry"

High antrise will just pack the rear end on braking bumps,
This. I went from a bike with >100% AR throughout travel to a pair of bikes with ~60% and the difference is huge on brake bumps. And the new bikes brake way better too because you can just drop your heels and the rear tire sinks in, rather than skipping around.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I'm saying that it's silly that they push anti rise as pulling the rear of the bike down "to maintain geometry"

What so 8lbs of wheel, swing arm, brake, casette$shifter are supposed to counteract forward weight transfer of a 140-200+lb rider and the other 20 something lbs of bike?
Nah come on.....
It's not the mass and has nothing to do with the mass of the swingarm. It's literally packing up the suspension and affecting geometry, like I said. A particular affect on geometry that happens to benefit hard, straight line braking.


High antrise will just pack the rear end on braking bumps,
Race car vehicle dynamics talks about a condition where the wheel has traction then rises, loosing traction, begins skidding as it's unloaded, then as traction and antirise forces are lost, the wheel lowers regains traction, in a cycle. Seems more like a pavement thing that you might get on a road race or autocross car with an SRA with 3 or 4 link and high antisquat.

I haven't necessarily experienced this on a bike but on a motorcycle In some conditions at medium to low speed i can make the bike do it.
Show me a race car or even motorcycle you can lean over the back of, at 5 times the weight of the vehicle.

Every dumb idea in mountainbiking's history has come from people trying to treat them like vehicles that are massively heavier than the rider, when the exact opposite scenario is reality.

There's no other suspended vehicle out there that is a small fraction of the very mobile riders weight
 
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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,405
10,041
AK
I think I like to have at least a little squat, on the bikes I've been on that were closer to "fully active", old school HLs, but not stinkbug LTSs, the forward weight shift on steeps was not a good thing. You're going to get it on the fork and it's going to unload the rear, but at least with some squat and braking the rear it doesn't go into ejection mode.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,030
20,917
Sleazattle
It's not the mass and has nothing to do with the mass of the swingarm. It's literally packing up the suspension and affecting geometry, like I said. A particular affect on geometry that happens to benefit hard, straight line braking.




Show me a race car or even motorcycle you can lean over the back of, at 5 times the weight of the vehicle.

Every dumb idea in mountainbiking's history has come from people trying to treat them like vehicles that are massively heavier than the rider, when the exact opposite scenario is reality.
Years ago I think it was the German Touring Car series implemented a minimum weight limit to reduce costs. So some teams decided to spend more money and made the car as light as possible then added weight that could be shifted around for better corning and braking performance.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
8,127
5,978
UK
Years ago I think it was the German Touring Car series implemented a minimum weight limit to reduce costs. So some teams decided to spend more money and made the car as light as possible then added weight that could be shifted around for better corning and braking performance.
WTF? You never played Gran Turismo?
That's been a thing for like.. forever
 

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,595
1,087
La Verne
Every dumb idea in mountainbiking's history has come from people trying to treat them like vehicles that are massively heavier than the rider, when the exact opposite scenario is reality
I mean brake floaters were used on and off on motorcycle just slightly longer than mtbs.
Disappeared from both, slight re-emergence on mtb
 

jrewing

Monkey
Aug 22, 2010
342
242
Maydena Oz
I got an Ochain on sale for my 2017 Horst link aurum. That Norco isnt perfect and needs it. Kickback is high and i ride flats. Broke a chain at the bike park and loved how much better it rode so hunted one down.
 

schwaaa31

Turbo Monkey
Jul 30, 2002
1,477
1,077
Clinton Massachusetts
I got an Ochain on sale for my 2017 Horst link aurum. That Norco isnt perfect and needs it. Kickback is high and i ride flats. Broke a chain at the bike park and loved how much better it rode so hunted one down.
I’d love to try one on my 2019 Sender. Busted my chain at the top of a run once and loved how it rode without the chain. Have you mounted yours up yet? Curious as to how it rides. I was surprised as to how many riders are using them on the DH circuit in Ed Masters DH bike weigh in video.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
8,127
5,978
UK
Lol. And high pivot idler designs are?
Cyclists find anything they're told to aesthetically pleasing.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Because they aren't aesthetically pleasing to the majority?
have you seen the sunglasses most mountainbikers wear these days?

the real reason is that the supposed massive superiority of floating brakes rely on two assumptions that sort of apply on dirtbikes, and apply much less with mountainbikes

and there was one frame in particular that floating brakes made worse.....because it turned the bike into a bucking catapault when you hit the brake hard
 
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norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,476
1,686
Warsaw :/
I'm saying that it's silly that they push anti rise as pulling the rear of the bike down "to maintain geometry"

What so 8lbs of wheel, swing arm, brake, casette$shifter are supposed to counteract forward weight transfer of a 140-200+lb rider and the other 20 something lbs of bike?
Nah come on.....

High antrise will just pack the rear end on braking bumps,
Race car vehicle dynamics talks about a condition where the wheel has traction then rises, loosing traction, begins skidding as it's unloaded, then as traction and antirise forces are lost, the wheel lowers regains traction, in a cycle. Seems more like a pavement thing that you might get on a road race or autocross car with an SRA with 3 or 4 link and high antisquat.

I haven't necessarily experienced this on a bike but on a motorcycle In some conditions at medium to low speed i can make the bike do it.
I mean the "maintaining geometry" logic in itself is sound. If your rear is completely unaffected by breaking forces those forces don't magically dissapear. What's up for discussion is how much you can control front dive and geometry change under breaking by changing anti rise. I didn't see anyone going specific and talking if the difference is noticeable or just theoretical. Then again I might have missed something and maybe Steve for Vorsprung talked about it.
 

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,595
1,087
La Verne
I have one on a DH bike and it makes the suspension feel a lot smoother. It makes a big difference, imo.
but "pedal kickback doesnt exist something something derailuer takes it up" - one of the regulars

is the biggest difference mowing down braking bumps?