[mr_dove]

I'm looking at upgrading my wheelset from a crappy stock wheelset that came on a Giant Rainier.

Is there anything better than Chris King hubs and are they worth the extra $$$. I could probably buy 6 xt disc hubs for the price of a king hub.

Also, I'm about 220 pounds. Will a set of Mavic 317's be strong enough for me or should I go for something beefier?

 

[oldfart]

King's from what I hear are pretty damn good. At your weight I think you'd benefit. I have a big riding buddy who has broken various bits on his xt hubs over the past year. freehub bodies start to skip, the bolt that holds the freehub body on broke on him. He's looking to get a set of Kings. Much better mechanism than the standard pawls in most hubs.

You could probably use a 317 on the front but I'd recommend a heavier rear rim. Again, my big buddy only gets 4 or 5 months out of a light 400gm rim like a 317 before it cracks. All that cyclic loading and unloading I think leads to fatigue cracks.

 

[ohio]

The only rear hubs worth using IMO, in descending order of preference and price:
-King
-Hadley
-Hope

For the most part, front hubs are all the same, though Hope and Hadley are nice in that they adapt from 9mm to 20mm and back.

If you have the cash, it's worth it to upgrade to any of those over XT/deore. Lighter, need less adjusting, quicker freehub response, easily just as strong.

Some people find the sound of the King annoying (me included) but it definitely has the fastest response.

The 317s might be strong enough for you if they're built up by someone that knows what they're doing. You might want to consider the X3.1, as it is a little beefier at the spoke beds. I personally prefer wider rims for the profile and stability they give the tire, and at your size you won't notice the weight difference that much.

 

[spincrazy]

Go King. Like Ohio said, I'd go with the d3.1s or a RynoLite for the rims.

 

[RD]

King... Hadley... True Precision... Hugi...

 

[Grimey]

I'm going to go that King's a nice, high precision but all those extra pawls isn't always a good thing. I've heard numerous account of the pawls breaking and so forth.

I'd put my vote in for Hadley.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by Grimey
I'm going to go that King's a nice, high precision but all those extra pawls isn't always a good thing. I've heard numerous account of the pawls breaking and so forth.

That's interesting because King doesn't use pawls.

It uses a ring drive mechanism that (like most King products) is an elegant bit of genius that is lighter and stronger than any other system I've ever seen. Unlike a pawl system that has 2-3 point contacts, the King system has 36 surface contacts under every engagement. I highly doubt that failure occured there.

The hub became contaminated to the point that grit, or oxidation prevented the drive from engaging, but that would have taken a lot of neglect (King seals are pretty good), and it still wouldn't have broken the ring drive.

 

[fonseca]

I've only seen one report of a broken ring drive that I can recall. The Kings engage extremely fast and are probably the nicest hubs available in terms of quality. I had a classic set for years that was trouble-free for many thousands of miles.

But there are other hubs available for substantially less money that perform about the same. Mabye more maintainance than Kings and bearings that aren't as nice.

I'd like to try a set of True Precision Stealth hubs myself. It would be nice if King offered adapters for their 20mm front hub to run standard QR. It wouldn't be hard for them to do, but it probably wouldn't meet their high standards or something.:

 

[Grimey]

I'm going to go that King's a nice, high precision but all those extra pawls isn't always a good thing

Honestly, I have never owned a pair or really looked into them as they are out of my league. I have just heard that the contact points are a weakness and I assumed they used pawls. Of course I heard this from a guy who swore on American Classic hubs.

 

[FlipSide]

The Ringlé SOS Abbah (or some kind of name like that) is also very good. The older design had some problems I've been told, but the newer version is very good. I love mine. It's loud, it has quick engagement and it's very strong.

 

[RD]

American Classic hubs are a joke... hahahahahhaha I've had some very bad experiences with Ringle hubs. I've tried to warranty many for customers and have been given the cold shoulder by them. King tech support, as well as Hadley are top notch.

 

[fonseca]

The current Ringle ABBAH SOS hubs are excellent, however. Lots of people had problems with their late 90s "bubba" hubs, and the reputation has hung around online, as it tends to do.

I'm running the ABBAH SOS standard axle rear and 20mm front. The rear hub has very fast 10 degree engagement, not quite instant, but far above and beyond Shimano and most other hubs. And it's extremely easy to service; you don't even need to remove the cassette from the freehub to open it up. It has quad cartridge bearings and a 15mm axle, a lot bigger than most hubs have.

The only problem I have had with it is the alloy freehub I bought to shave off 80g. Being aluminum there are some wear marks from the small cogs that aren't on the carrier.

Anyway, the ABBAH SOS hubs are not lightweight, but they are definitely bombproof, and Ringle will warranty them for DH and FR usage. The only downside is the price: at $254 it's only $10 less than a King ISO. But I got mine for a good bit less.

 

[sub6]

Huh. I have a set of Abbah SOS on my DH bike and I haven't been terribly impressed by the rear one (12x165); it doesn't seem to have especially fast engagment (it's faster than Shimano though) and the mechanism doesn't seem as positive as, say, a Hadley. Maybe I should pull it apart and put some stronger springs behind the pawls. It's held up fine so far though....


On the King pawl issue - I'd say that's a load. AC hubs carry quite a reputation for mediocrity in the freehub. The King mechanism works a little like the clutch on a car in that there are two "plates" that engage each other (not really, but it's analagous), on a clutch the engagement is made by some kind of rubbery stuff, on the hub the engagement is made by 36 teeth on each side, which all engage at the same time. There's no moving parts in the sense of a "traditional" freehub's two or three moving/ratcheting, sprung pawls. It's a system that is far more sound than any pawl system, IMHO.

 

[spincrazy]

Originally posted by sub6
Huh. I have a set of Abbah SOS on my DH bike and I haven't been terribly impressed by the rear one (12x165); it doesn't seem to have especially fast engagment (it's faster than Shimano though) and the mechanism doesn't seem as positive as, say, a Hadley. Maybe I should pull it apart and put some stronger springs behind the pawls. It's held up fine so far though....


On the King pawl issue - I'd say that's a load. AC hubs carry quite a reputation for mediocrity in the freehub. The King mechanism works a little like the clutch on a car in that there are two "plates" that engage each other (not really, but it's analagous), on a clutch the engagement is made by some kind of rubbery stuff, on the hub the engagement is made by 36 teeth on each side, which all engage at the same time. There's no moving parts in the sense of a "traditional" freehub's two or three moving/ratcheting, sprung pawls. It's a system that is far more sound than any pawl system, IMHO.

Agreed twice.

I too have heard about the Abbah hubs going tits up. it could have been the older ones, but I know one guy who's gone through three and he can't be at all considered hard on his equipment. Don't think he's using them anymore.

 

[fonseca]

You don't really need a hub with fast engagement for DH though, nor would you notice it for that kind of riding. Where you notice it is slow speed, technical climbing in the granny ring and large cogs. That is when it makes a hell of a difference between successfully making it through a tricky section or having to get off and walk.

Kings have the equivalent of 72 points, for 5 degree engagement. That's about as close to instant as it gets, except for True Precision which has a unique instant engagement system.

Ringle and Hope use 36, for 10 degree engagement.

Hadley has 32. I've never used them or seen anyone using them, but they look like high quality hubs.

American Classics have 24: 50% faster than Shimano, but I would not use these myself, although I have a 145lb friend that loves them. They are extremely light (lighter than King), xc race hubs. The problems people had with these hubs relate to older models that had greaseports--which no one bothered to use. They no longer have greaseports and have more seals instead.

Shimano, Hugi, Hayes and most cheap hubs have 16-18 points of engagement; very slow and I no longer consider those hubs for my own use, although I still have a few wheelsets with xt freehubs as spares.

My ABBAH SOS hubs are '02 models I believe. No problems yet after two years as the primary wheelset on my main FS bike, but only time will tell. They probably have less than 2,000 miles on them.

 

[Enduro]

- What's your type of riding? XC, FR, DH, etc.?
- Do you ride smooth or not?

 

[lonewolfe]

If you are willing to put down the dollars for a quality set of hubs then you really can't go wrong with Kings, Hadleys or Hopes. They are all very high quality hubs and will last through many wheel builds if you take care of them. Kings are a little lighter than Hadleys and are the bomb if you are a cross country rider. I'm more of a freeride/downhill rider and have to stick with the Hadleys as my favorite. I've never used the Hopes but know many people that do and they all swear by them.

I am also a 220lbs aggressive and not always the smoothest rider and my Hadleys never let me down. As for rims, I've used Rhyno Lites in the past and they worked well for trail riding but don't last that long if you are really giving them a beating. I personally am partial to Mavic rims and run d321's. These will probably be overkill for you but you should consider the 3.1's or the 521's. Both of those are really high quality and durable rims with a very reasonable weight.

One last note about wheels. One of the most important factors to wheel strength and durability is how the wheels are built. You can have the best hubs and rims available and if they are built poorly they just are not going to last. Find a good wheel builder with a good reputation. Ask your buddies that have been riding a while who they use. You may spend a little more for the wheel building but it is money well spent and cheaper in the long run!

Hope this helps

 

[Roasted]

Hadley has also come out with a trials version of their hub.

http://unrealcycles.com/items/hadley-dhhubs.htm

Cheers

 

[binary visions]

Just thought I'd mention that the Trials version has a single pawl engagement, while the normal hub has either 3 or 4 pawls that simultaneously engage.. So, basically, the engagement isn't as solid or as durable.

I'm not saying they'll break, just something to think about - if the extra engagement is really worth it to you, great, otherwise I'd just stick with the standard ones. They have a 10 degree engagement anyway which is more than twice what Shimano has.