[ALEXIS_DH]

I remember something I read somewhere, too, and it proves I'm right.

So there.

MD

national coalition for the homeless veteran.

The U. S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) estimates that more than 299,321 veterans are homeless on any given night. And, more than half a million experience homelessness over the course of a year

that is a crapload of people. and an important % of the overall number of veterans.

this might give you an idea, but i´ll keep looking until i find the exact place i read the fact i recalled earlier.

http://www.nchv.org/background.cfm

 

[Damn True]

yeah, but little is still better than nothing, isnt it?

in a way you can make the generalization that most people go to the army, because its their best option in life.

i mean... i remember somewhere i read the % of homeless people who were in the US military is much higher than in the regular population....

while there are some bright minds, and wealthy ivy leaguers in the military, the homeless fact is an indirect pointer on the relative abilities of those who enroll in the army at the foot soldier level, and their options in life.

YOU could make the generalization, but YOU would be wrong and YOU would continue to look like an uninformed fool if YOU were to do so.

Homeless people in the military?
In eleven years I never met one. How about you Mike? Any bag lady's in your outfit?

Too damn funny.

I suppose one could say that there are those in the military that would be homeless if there were expected to live in some of the high cost of living areas where some bases are located w/o the benefit of military housing.
I know that I could not have afforded to live in NYC on the pay I was recieving when I was stationed there.

 

[MikeD]

They're not IN the army now, they're veterans. And you said homeless people were in the military, which just didn't make any sense.

To draw a direct correlation to the number of homeless vets to the worth of people in the service is ridiculous. Nor are conditions in the military at all similar to what they were when most of those vets served (conscripted service in Vietnam) or became homeless.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

YOU could make the generalization, but YOU would be wrong and YOU would continue to look like an uninformed fool if YOU were to do so.

Homeless people in the military?
In eleven years I never met one. How about you Mike? Any bag lady's in your outfit?

Too damn funny.

I suppose one could say that there are those in the military that would be homeless if there were expected to live in some of the high cost of living areas where some bases are located w/o the benefit of military housing.
I know that I could not have afforded to live in NYC on the pay I was recieving when I was stationed there.

well dude, according to your government there are almost 300 thousand homeless veterans any given night. whether you know any or dont is a smaller universe upon to which make a generalization the US dept of veterans affairs number.

and i use the number of veterans to show you how EX-employees of the military wage in the real world after they get out of the military. IMO this can give you a glanze of their abilities in life and an indirect hint that for them going in to the military was the best thing available given their abilities.

i cannot find the place i read what i quotes, but i´ll do the math.
according to this

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/numbers.html

there are 3.5 million homeless in the US in the course of a year. according to the US dept of veterans affairs there are 500 thousand homeless veterans in the course of a year.
that means, 1 out of every 7 homeless was in the military, from those onlny 5% were dishonorably discharged according to this

http://www.iugm.org/news/veterans.html.

is 1 out of every 7 US-ers a veteran?????

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

They're not IN the army now, they're veterans. And you said homeless people were in the military, which just didn't make any sense.

To draw a direct correlation to the number of homeless vets to the worth of people in the service is ridiculous. Nor are conditions in the military at all similar to what they were when most of those vets served (conscripted service in Vietnam) or became homeless.

isnt EVERY current soldier BOUND to be VETERAN at some point in his/her life?????

only 42% of the vets currently homeless served in vietnam. from those, i dont know the number of conscript.

http://www.iugm.org/news/veterans.html

 

[MikeD]

isnt EVERY current soldier BOUND to be VETERAN at some point in his/her life?????
[/url]

That still doesn't change the fact that you said there were homeless people in the military, which there aren't. I still don't quite see your point.

You're also getting dangerously close to an extreme right-wing viewpoint by implying that homeless people and poor people are simply that way because they can't make it as capitalists.

MD

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

That still doesn't change the fact that you said there were homeless people in the military, which there aren't. I still don't quite see your point.

You're also getting dangerously close to an extreme right-wing viewpoint by implying that homeless people and poor people are simply that way because they can't make it as capitalists.

MD

i never meant to say there are homeless in the military, i`ll recheck my posts to see where i might have slipped that and change that. if you understood so, it was probably due to my not so good english and mixed past-present tense.

i dont mean to say people is homeless because they cannot make it as capitalist.

i use that statictics to imply that people who go into the military is usually poor young kids for whom the military was the best posible option. and who, because of their initial economical limitations, would end up being poor (cuz it they werent economically limited in the first place, they wouldnt be homeless now dont you think?), thus choosing the military for the money more than anything else.

EDIT, i see you read this:

"i mean... i remember somewhere i read the % of homeless people who were in the US military is much higher than in the regular population...."

i said WERE in past, not ARE, i meant "homeless people WHO WERE IN THE PAST in the US military". aka veterans.

i hope that is where you got the idea i was talking about current soldiers.

 

[JRB]

EVERYONE is a hypocrit at some point. I was pissed so and said that in response. Also if a soldier goes out of his way to kill someone when he's not in danger himself...than yes maybe he is a worthless person. To me it looked as though those Iraqies were harmless to the pilots of the apache. :nuts:

At the expense of being banned, you are the biggest idiot that has drawn breath any where near Ridemonkey. What a pile of trash you appear to be to think that the poor bastards best friends haven't been killed. They were running to and from an anti aircraft gun. You are truly a piece of uneducated work. It's people like you that make Canada get crap. I move you are banned from Ridemonkey and anything else in the United States. Go away, asshead.

 

[Skookum]

Regardless of motivation the soldiers put everything they have on the line for the nation they serve. Now whether you want to sugar coat it or drag it thru the mud, they still afford us the opportunities to live the lifestyle we live.
The methods that are used may be disagreeable, but that's war, and it's still good to see people with conscience that find it detestable, rather than most of us who can simply laugh off death.
And back to the argument at hand i personally disagree with the war in Iraq but i will still support the soldiers. And at the same time, this doesn't mean i have to agree with it, or view their endeavors with some rosy unfocused nationalistic hue.

 

[Skookum]

At the expense of being banned, you are the biggest idiot that has drawn breath any where near Ridemonkey. What a pile of trash you appear to be to think that the poor bastards best friends haven't been killed. They were running to and from an anti aircraft gun. You are truly a piece of uneducated work. It's people like you that make Canada get crap. I move you are banned from Ridemonkey and anything else in the United States. Go away, asshead.

You are as much of an idiot, you live in Texas.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Regardless of motivation the soldiers put everything they have on the line for the nation they serve. Now whether you want to sugar coat it or drag it thru the mud, they still afford us the opportunities to live the lifestyle we live.
The methods that are used may be disagreeable, but that's war, and it's still good to see people with conscience that find it detestable, rather than most of us who can simply laugh off death.
And back to the argument at hand i personally disagree with the war in Iraq but i will still support the soldiers. And at the same time, this doesn't mean i have to agree with it, or view their endeavors with some rosy unfocused nationalistic hue.

i got an issue here.
soldiers are human beings capable of making decisions. and they decide to put their lifes in the hands of others and to do whatever the boss tells them to do.
they make that choice, at the risk of being used as tools for devastation, or being used not to defend, but to attack others. that a risk they choose. thus they are also responsible if they are used as that, even when they dont mean to, they accepted that posibility.....

in an extreme example to test that "i support the soldiers, but i dont support the war"... if you were german in the 30s... would you support the nazi soldiers and romer (sp?) and not support the nazi regime???

i mean... can you support those who MADE THE CHOICE to get paid to execute whatever order, and not the guy who gave the order?? after all, werent both equally capable to make a decision at some point either, not attacking, or not enrolling to be a tool that could posibly be used to attack?

 

[JRB]

You are as much of an idiot, you live in Texas.

Ok - you win.

 

[Damn True]

You are as much of an idiot, you live in Texas.

Id be inclined to side with you depending on location. But I have spent the last two weeks in Texas and some of it is awfully nice. Waco in particular. Wow, what a cool little town. Great riding there as well.

 

[JRB]

Id be inclined to side with you depending on location. But I have spent the last two weeks in Texas and some of it is awfully nice. Waco in particular. Wow, what a cool little town. Great riding there as well.

Bastard - that is 30 miles from me and where Wumpus is from. Holler when you are back.

EDIT - oh yeah :eviltongu Skookums

 

[Silver]

i mean... can you support those who MADE THE CHOICE to get paid to execute whatever order, and not the guy who gave the order?? after all, werent both equally capable to make a decision at some point either, not attacking, or not enrolling to be a tool that could posibly be used to attack?

It's not quite that simple.

Leaving aside the issue of how much a single soldier can affect a larger battle (which is usually a lot less than the officers that he is serving under) there is also the issue of getting a bullet (or a long trip to military prison...I think I might take the bullet, personally) for not obeying orders.

But, we like to make things simple in the USA, so if you don't say you support the troops, that obviously means that you hope they all come home in body bags.

After all, nothing is better than polarizing a muddled gray debate into dark black and sparkling white.

 

[Skookum]

soldiers are human beings capable of making decisions. and they decide to put their lifes in the hands of others and to do whatever the boss tells them to do.
they make that choice, at the risk of being used as tools for devastation, or being used not to defend, but to attack others. that a risk they choose. thus they are also responsible if they are used as that, even when they dont mean to, they accepted that posibility.....

exactly.... and your point? i mean what you are asking is that i judge soldiers that enrolled years before or recently to serve our country. Am i to back them only when they go out and do mercy missions to help people in Asia after the tsunami? Pick and choose then?
What am i gonna do, wait by the base and call them baby killers like the hippies did back in the 60's and 70's. It's pointless, and irresponsible.
Your claim of accountability goes beyond the realm of rational. You give way too much responsibility and power over the soldiers decisions, i do not buy into your premise in this respect. For a myriad of reasons.
You are suggesting we should have an army that is going to constantly second guess it's morale and motivation based on differing views on policy. C'mon you know that's ridiculous.
Do you personally take accountability for children who go hungry because their father gambled all their food money at your casino?
Exactly where does it end if i take your reasoning.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

exactly.... and your point? i mean what you are asking is that i judge soldiers that enrolled years before or recently to serve our country. Am i to back them only when they go out and do mercy missions to help people in Asia after the tsunami? Pick and choose then?
What am i gonna do, wait by the base and call them baby killers like the hippies did back in the 60's and 70's. It's pointless, and irresponsible.
Your claim of accountability goes beyond the realm of rational. You give way too much responsibility and power over the soldiers decisions, i do not buy into your premise in this respect. For a myriad of reasons.
You are suggesting we should have an army that is going to constantly second guess it's morale and motivation based on differing views on policy. C'mon you know that's ridiculous.
Do you personally take accountability for children who go hungry because their father gambled all their food money at your casino?
Exactly where does it end if i take your reasoning.

well. its not so ridiculous no irresponsible.
if you enroll in the US army, there is a BIG chance you are gonna end up fighting an offensive war at some point. every 20 years in since its independance the US has been in a war, not necesarilly always an honorable defensive war.
way bigger than say if you enroll in canadas or mexicos army for example. and soldiers know that.
what you say is 2nd thoughts on morale, is what i called personal reasoning, not lambs without responsability. i advocate soldiers as human beings capable of decision. just because they sign a paper saying they surrender at will doesnt morally liberate them from reason. reason should be over "morale and duty" on my mind.

about the casino, well i thought about that, and sometimes i feel some sort of responsable. but then i realize that the ultimate decision on what to gamble or not is on the patrons. just like the ultimate decision on whether or not to fight is on the soldiers. thus IMO there is also a big deal of responsability on the one with the last word. the soldier or the gambler.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

It's not quite that simple.

Leaving aside the issue of how much a single soldier can affect a larger battle (which is usually a lot less than the officers that he is serving under) there is also the issue of getting a bullet (or a long trip to military prison...I think I might take the bullet, personally) for not obeying orders.

.

yeah, but unless a soldier was conscripted... at some point he willingly put himself/herself on that situation, whether for money or "honor duty and tradition".

its a contractual thing, a business deal. if i loose all my money because my business failed, tough luck, i chose to run that risk. same thing with a soldier, if due to past decision, made willingly and in the US-army in the view of how many wars it engages, and because of this at some am in the situation of killing or going to jail... tough luck, you got in that situation.

 

[springfield1911]

Sooo... you're still a tard lol. The only water buffalo in Iraq are domestic aka not wild. So your an idiot because you can have any kind of animal all over the world domestic that is. Please don;t try and act like I don;t know anything about wildlife....my dad is one of the top marine biologists in the world and my mom is an envriomentalist who works all over the world...both have lifed in Africa where water buffalo are wild. :nuts:

Translation-
"MY dad knows more about biology than you, and my mom is an environmentalist, therefore you're all idiots, and i just love to use technical difference in your analogy to back up my weak arguement from a weak hearted colorado hippie".

Do you live in boulder by any chance?

There were RPG's and SK's, and they intentionally put it away from the vehicles to hide it, they weren't selling tomatoes at your local farmer's market, trailmix. Sheesh

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

i lived in the states for 4 years, or almost 20% of my life. i know a thing or two about the states, probably more than you know of south america./QUOTE]


That's cute, but no one here has said "all Peruvian Soldiers are mercenaries working for multinational coporations' interests." This is exactly why some of Americans have reservation against foreign students, the second after they leave, they use their stay in the USA as proof for their Anti-American arguements. i know a few students who came here for high school and college, and I was in a relationship with one of the girls for two years. They acted like they were absorbed int the American society, enjoyed all the benefitso of living in America. Then as soon as they left, they turned their faces and bashed America left to right, anywhere from "too many guns" to "too many republicans" to "too many Stupid Mexicans'(not me, they said). AS you can imagine I have cut off all communications with them ever since.

Alexis, i'm very sorry to see that you haven't learned a thing about the American people in your so called 4-year stay in an American college. maybe if you lived with some real Americans you would understand us a little more. Your loss.

am not anti-american. i like some parts of the states.
saying there are too many republicans, or guns is not bashing, am sorry, but that is the one of the downfalls of the country. from nixon to columbine, the availability of republicans and guns makes a dent on the quality of life for what i think would be an awesome place otherwise.
look at it this way... if you say many foreign students leave the states after they are done with school... why do you think they leave? cuz they like republicans, guns so much????

btw, what are real americans????? i met so many different kinds your definition of "real americans" boggles my mind.....

 

[genpowell71]

btw, what are real americans????? i met so many different kinds your definition of "real americans" boggles my mind.....

I guess you dont know as much about the US as you thought huh?

Real Americans are those who stand up to be counted for what they believe in. I'm tired of seeing people in here bash the US for being a country with too many guns and too many republicans and too many stupid people. I'm tired of watching people in here that use OUR rights to post in here about how they want to see the US soldier, sailor, marine, airman killed in Iraq because they are murderers (changleen). If you dont like us, who cares about you? The fact remains that in some form or another you need us. All you pitful little countries that get invaded by someone with muscle who do you come crying to? I'll give you a hint... It aint Germany, france, Russia, Saudi Arabia, China, or any other of those that stood against us. You come crying to the US for help. Why? because we're the only country with BALLS enough to do anything about it inthe world. Call us a dictitorial country with an idiot for a leader (I agree with you on that one). Go ahead, the fact remains that the world needs us.

Oh and the Apache pilot was investigated JAG because the civilian people told the CPA that there were no weapons present. After the gun camera footage was reviewed by everyone, he was cleared afterwards.

 

[springfield1911]

am not anti-american. i like some parts of the states.
saying there are too many republicans, or guns is not bashing, am sorry, but that is the one of the downfalls of the country. from nixon to columbine, the availability of republicans and guns makes a dent on the quality of life for what i think would be an awesome place otherwise.
look at it this way... if you say many foreign students leave the states after they are done with school... why do you think they leave? cuz they like republicans, guns so much????

btw, what are real americans????? i met so many different kinds your definition of "real americans" boggles my mind.....

The foreign students usually leave because of the competitive job market, the need to learn correct English, the realization that America is not a easy place to live in (contrary to the hope of a land of endless drinking nad drug abusing), and their socialist government guarantee a living regardless of the skills these students had after partying and having during the stay in America. The foreign students in University of California system are notorious for being the excessively partying type while participating in so-called leberal causes(gay movement, legalization of narcotics, etc).

In fact, your statement is overly generalizing. many foreign students from third world countries(such as Asia, Africa, and the former eastern block) love it so much they learned to speak English, went through with higher education, went into the work force, and contribute to the American dream by hard work. That's how my family came to be an American family, because they believed in the constitution of these United States, its heritage, and what it stood for. they did not go anywhere else because they were not from Europe, and my grandparents and parents are not too arragont to despise this country.

Everyone can like certain parts of any place on earth. it's a luxury of those who do not have to contribute to it but rather merely make their assessments on it. But those of us who chose to live here, along with our fathers, had an ideal of hard work, good moral values, and apprecaition for those who help us. But we don't take to kindly to the hostile type who try(unsuccessfully) to convince us that we are our worst enemies. They may succeed in areas with dis-illusioned young people(Bay Area, Eugene, seattle, Santa Cruz, Vermont), it's the rest of the country that keeps America alive, not the weed-smoking, communism praising, Canada_worshipping, Sierra Club-faithful(P.S., the Sierra Club, the leading envrionmental group, successfully shut down many trails and State Parks to mountain bikers, so may they burn in hell with the AL Queda), idealistic college students and their posies.

Ah, columbine, i was wondering how long it would take for America Bashing International to bring that up. It is unfortunate, but their parents have much to blame for this. if I were making bombs in my garage at 2 in the morning, my dad would give me a good lesson on how to respect human life and fellow people. But as i understood these kids had other problems. In our country, two troubled youths killed their classmates and a teacher. In other countires, troubled youths became Hitler, Castro, heads of the Madline Cartel, Neo-Nazi skinheads, Stalin, Lennin, and the list goes on.

how about this, ALexis, why don't you go campaign for eliminate the cocain problem(which kill a lot more people than guns) in Columbia and Mexico and see if your vision of the perfect world would happen a little closer to home. If you succeed, please, indulge yourself in the wondeful south America. I'll be in my house California where we still appreciate the country that gave our livelihood.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

how about this, ALexis, why don't you go campaign for eliminate the cocain problem(which kill a lot more people than guns) in Columbia and Mexico and see if your vision of the perfect world would happen a little closer to home. If you succeed, please, indulge yourself in the wondeful south America. I'll be in my house California where we still appreciate the country that gave our livelihood.

i dont campaign about cocaine because it kills those who want to get killed in the first place. like cigarrettes. i mean, we make the offer, others are the ones buying that crap and killing themselves...

why dont you campaign about the guns and weapons the US sells to the world?? i betcha they kill more people WHO DIDNT wanted to get killed in the first place, those who buy them usually dont kill themselves, but they kill others isnt it?....

about the "real american" thing.. it was sarcastic. i find it interesting you believe there are levels of "americanness" in the states.
do you think is bound to some sort of primary and insctintive ultra-nationalism? but i guess under your fundamental and absolute frame of reference, there is no argument on that of course.

 

[Wumpus]

Thought this was kind of cool:

Iraqi Marshes

 

[syadasti]

Springfield1911 - who runs this country and keeps it alive for the working people - international corporations with money to lobby. Let see who they are what their their legacy is:

-Big tobacco(cancer)
-Food industry(following trends to sell larger sizes, obesity is major problem in US and spreading to other countries - heart disease - number one killer disease in US)
-Pharm. industry(keep medicine from people (federal from the states even) in the US who don't have the money by prevent importing the same drugs from Canada (bush loves their money - those drugs aren't safe, eh?) and sue third world countries who make generic drugs to heal the dying - AIDs, cancer, etc..)
-Auto(global warming, smog, etc - mileage has gone down over the past 20 years, global warming is accepted by all developed countries but the US in kyoto treaty and a majority of the scientific community)
-Defense (one industry who pushed for the war - war is good for business, vice president from haliburton - scammed and bribed government out of millions)
-Big oil (main reason we went to iraq)
-agrobusiness (crush small farmers, poorly tested GMOs - Monsanto - Clinton connection, number one producer of DTT (also number one exporter) and still make/export other toxic banned US chemicals)
-Mining companies (rape land by strip mining, non-us mercury-based gold prospecting, illegal trade, unsafe conditions for their workers)
-Major international retailers like Walmart, Nike, etc...(sweat shops with major labor violations in a lot of their products)

I see, these foreign people are dumb, we don't ever do anything wrong

 

[springfield1911]

Okay, that's some of our industries. don't forget the IT industry that we started which enable you and I to be on the forum.

By your logic, we should go back to the good old days of farming corn and ride donkeys, go the general store once every 2 months, and have to wait for 3 months for your next bike part. Oh wait, without the defense industry, we wouldn't even have the material we build our bikes with). heck, why don't we just buy Siberia for 3 trilllion dollars, give away all of our assests, and live like tribes people?

Go ahead, you can start the Great Experiment. Don't forget to tell us what happens...(oops, you wouldn't have internet access, since you want to get away from all harmful products of the AMerican economy, but please do write...)

come to think of it, you should move to New Zealand to join your comrads in building your Utopia. Don't forget to bring your flint stone and I hoep you don't mind skinning your dinner!!!

 

[springfield1911]

i dont campaign about cocaine because it kills those who want to get killed in the first place. like cigarrettes. i mean, we make the offer, others are the ones buying that crap and killing themselves...

why dont you campaign about the guns and weapons the US sells to the world?? i betcha they kill more people WHO DIDNT wanted to get killed in the first place, those who buy them usually dont kill themselves, but they kill others isnt it?....

about the "real american" thing.. it was sarcastic. i find it interesting you believe there are levels of "americanness" in the states.
do you think is bound to some sort of primary and insctintive ultra-nationalism? but i guess under your fundamental and absolute frame of reference, there is no argument on that of course.

Yeah, tell that to the people who have no choice but to work in the cocaine industry, or those who were introduced to it a an answer to escape the harsh reality of poverty?

Those who bought weapons chose to buy the weapons. If America didn;t make them, the same buyers will buy it from France, Germany, England, China, Russia, Ukraine, and so on.

There is a difference between ultra-nationalism and pride. i value pride, but I do not adovacate to annialate anyone who's not American. That would be the Spanish Conquistor way or the German NAtional Socialist way. We don't want to kill everyone, we just don't want to be bashed just because our nation exists and does not wish to follow the current trend else where.

No one were FORCED to buy American products. the rest of the world made a conscious choice. It's not like we are the dutch diamond monoply, if you don't like what we have, there is the door.

 

[MikeD]

Wow, this thread is so mind-opening.

1) There can be economic and corporate growth and success combined with responsibility.

2) US soldiers aren't mercenaries, and blaming them for what the popularly-elected US gov't decides to do, unless the actions ordered are outside of the legal code into which servicemen are bound (which forbids, for example, torturing people...), is pretty misguided. The military as a whole, anywhere in the world, can't work if personnel are able to make up their own minds about whether a particular mission or task suits their fancy. This goes on all levels, right down to the tactical..."hmmm, well, Captain, I think Sgt Davis' squad should be the one to take that machine gun nest...we don't really like your plan, so we'll be sitting this one out." Military training is foremost about eradicating that mentality. It's a neccessity.

I can see how it's easy to just say, "Well, if the military didn't execute these f'd up operations, the officials couldn't propogate their evil plans!" Just as if the Nazi (bringing them up online is the last resort of a failing argument, btw) soldiers had laid down their arms. But who's to blame...just the soldiers? No, it's all of German society that let those dark years happen. Just as it's the US populace who's accountable for the actions of its military abroad, for better or worse.

3) Bombastic statements about American superiority will come back to haunt us all at some point. When you're on top, you show it and don't need to say it. We in the US tend to flail around a lot talking about how great we are these days, like we need the reassurance. It worries me. It also worries me how we take on tasks as if our energies and resources were limitless, without regard for the future. We're setting ourselves up to fall, and fostering the laughter which will accompany it around the globe if it does happen.

Militarily, especially...we're so convinced of our own superiority, mostly because of stupid little vid clips like the one that started this thread, that we refuse to believe that we're quickly turning into the world's paper tiger...and the more we fight, the more this is laid bare. Our Apaches (just for an example) were a great thing for the potential eradication of the red hordes thrusting into Western Europe. They're a neat and useful tool at times in a low-intensity conflict (although the Kiowa may be even more so), that can give us a slight edge and save some lives...but they can't and won't win the sorts of wars in which we're going to find ourselves, especially if we continue to violently attempt to export democracy. To win that sort of war as an expeditionary venture is a growing furball with the potential to choke us, especially if we refuse to face reality.

MD

 

[MikeD]

Those who bought weapons chose to buy the weapons. If America didn;t make them, the same buyers will buy it from France, Germany, England, China, Russia, Ukraine, and so on.

But France is sooooo nice! They'd never sell ANYONE a weapon of any kind, and they'd certainly not fill a vacuum left by a decline in American arms sales.

And why would Russia unload advanced weapons on the world when its economy is in such trouble? Such sales could only be a distraction to getting back on track, right?

 

[syadasti]

3) Bombastic statements about American superiority will come back to haunt us all at some point. When you're on top, you show it and don't need to say it. We in the US tend to flail around a lot talking about how great we are these days, like we need the reassurance. It worries me. It also worries me how we take on tasks as if our energies and resources were limitless, without regard for the future. We're setting ourselves up to fall, and fostering the laughter which will accompany it around the globe if it does happen

Bingo.

 

[genpowell71]

But France is sooooo nice! They'd never sell ANYONE a weapon of any kind, and they'd certainly not fill a vacuum left by a decline in American arms sales.

And why would Russia unload advanced weapons on the world when its economy is in such trouble? Such sales could only be a distraction to getting back on track, right?

I guess you missed the article about the Russian mafia selling everything that they had there on the black market. At one point there was a Columbian (Escobar) that was in the market for an old Russian Kilo class sub. It was intercepted on the way to S America. EVERYTHING in that country is for sale and will get sold if there is a buyer. The ATF arrested a Russian arms dealer that wanted to unload a bunch of the refitted SA-7 grail anti-aircraft rockets. And yes I can say that the French got caught with thier hands int he cookie jar. The Iraqi Mirage fighters we captured had the newer French guidance and GPS systems in them.

Vive' le stupid people for getting caught

 

[MikeD]

I guess you missed the article about the Russian mafia selling everything that they had there on the black market. At one point there was a Columbian (Escobar) that was in the market for an old Russian Kilo class sub. It was intercepted on the way to S America. EVERYTHING in that country is for sale and will get sold if there is a buyer. The ATF arrested a Russian arms dealer that wanted to unload a bunch of the refitted SA-7 grail anti-aircraft rockets. And yes I can say that the French got caught with thier hands int he cookie jar. The Iraqi Mirage fighters we captured had the newer French guidance and GPS systems in them.

Vive' le stupid people for getting caught

All lies! It's the US's fault that arms are proliferating in this world!!

(c'mon, man, do you need me to start using smilies or something???! Feel the deadpan, love the deadpan!!!)

 

[syadasti]

Vive' le stupid people for getting caught

Yeah, we've never sold arms or trained unstable countries/forces before (Iran-Contra, Regan afghanistan(trained those behind 911 when Russia was a threat - thank him for the skilled terrorists leaders that could pull it off ), etc, etc... ), right?

 

[Spunger]

Your kidding right? Did you graduate high school? 'Cause if you did, I'm sure you have gone thru an American History class. Let's just assume you called in sick that day and go over this point for your benefit. What the settlers of this nation did to native Americans was nothing less than genocide. You won't read that word associated w/ this nations past in any book because, guess what, those books were written in this country. Infact what your founding fathers did was even more cruel than outright killing of the Indians, they took the Indians' food supply away and starved them into submission. And when they finally surrendered, they were put in interment camps called reservations in the middle of the worst and useless spreads of land in this country. Ironically, as Karma would have it, some of these reservations ended up sitting on some of the largest gold and oil deposits in this nation.
Watch this one, I'll bet, if it hasn't already been tried, the Fed Gov is gonna have said reservations moved by claiming "eminent domain".
So what's the matter Spunger, suffering from a little myopia when it comes to examining your own nation?




What are you the poster child for the NRA? Re-read my post and see what exactly it is I'm trying to point out. Here, I'll quote it for you:


As for the rest of your rant, not bad. I agree w/ most of it, but not all. Still, not bad.

Yes, I did graduate High School. Yes I know about the settlers killing off the Indians. Yes I know it's wrong to kill off a culture. What does the US do now? Give all the Indians money and other benifits etc...

No I am not a poster child for the NRA, but I'd like to be able to have the rights to buy a gun and not have another thing taken away from my freedom by the worthless gun hater's out there. Just because some guy gets shot and he's a somebody means no more guns. I just can't stand that. I know one bad apple ruins it for everyone, but it's gotta be drawn to a point.

As a nation in whole, we killed off the Indians but we also invaded their land. At that point it's sorta like survival of the fittest. We were stronger so we won. That doesn't mean we did loose tons of people nor did they. I just mean we aren't telling our own people to line up infront of giant holes in the ground to be mass executed such as some countries. It's sort of like Hitler's era. Except some countries still do it to this day, look at places in Africa. They have killed millions of people. In the middle east this has happened as well from people like Sadam. Russia had it too with Stalin and others.

And to the other last posts about where they get their weapons. You know every country including the USA will sell to the highest bidder. That is just what happens. It's no surprise that Iraqi planes had French or Russian electronics in it. That's just how the world turns...

 

[genpowell71]

Yeah, we've never sold arms or trained unstable countries/forces before (Iran-Contra, Regan afghanistan(trained those behind 911 when Russia was a threat - thank him for the skilled terrorists leaders that could pull it off ), etc, etc... ), right?

Leave Reagan out of this. He did it to fight the Soviet Union. At the time, the Soviet Unoin was on EVERYONE'S list of #1 enemies. WHy dont you ask some of you hippie buddies about how many times Russia trained and tasked out Slavic, arab and Irish terrorists for missions. Also where do you think the IRA got the majority of it's training? Wasnt from the American Special Forces...

 

[Silver]

Leave Reagan out of this. He did it to fight the Soviet Union. At the time, the Soviet Unoin was on EVERYONE'S list of #1 enemies. WHy dont you ask some of you hippie buddies about how many times Russia trained and tasked out Slavic, arab and Irish terrorists for missions. Also where do you think the IRA got the majority of it's training? Wasnt from the American Special Forces...

Where did the IRA get it's money though, is an interesting question. Do you have any links that show Russian training of the IRA, by any chance? A quick web search didn't come up with much.

If we're throwing people in jail for funneling money to Hezbollah, there are some people in Boston who probably don't want their books looked at too closely.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1562217.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1490663.stm

 

[genpowell71]

Having worked with the Special Operations guys in Kosovo I can honestly say that if there is any record of the Russians funding the IRA, I doubt we'll see it. When I crossed paths with the Russian 160th airborne back in 1996 I talked to the senior sergeant of the platoon who actually worked for the Spetznaz in Afghanistan. His words were that if it was "back behind the wall" then the records are gone or not going to be found. I can tell you that the IRA didnt admit to many things, but the one thing that I can say is that they sure did have an assortment of weapons to fight with

http://irelandsown.net/rira2.html
http://home.att.net/~IrishPeace.com/Weapons.html

And this last little piece covers the COLUMBIAN contribution to the IRA terror operatives

http://www.ulsterflash.iofm.net/gadaffi.htm

 

[Akula_7]

This post is dead but it still irratated me loads.

Getting back to the main point of this post, the video, if you people watched it properly you would have seen that the first person to get decemated by the .30 cal was a farmer out plowing his field, he was slightly baffled at what was going on and then one Iraqi told him what ws happening so he tried to run but got raped. What was his parts in the weapon deal (if thats what it was) nothing???

And another thing, I hate to preach and whinge about the Geneva Convention, but the third Iraqi who hide under he truck was wounded and tried to roll to safety from the burning truck, he git killed and it is illeagal in the field of war to kill a wounded combatent, then again it is kinda illeagal to invade a soverign nation for the craic, but sure money is money.

And on the IRA queston, the training is home grown lads, there is no one on this forum with any real clue about the "RA" your not a Paddy so youll neve know the truth EVER.

RANTAGE OVER

 

[MikeD]

, he git killed and it is illeagal in the field of war to kill a wounded combatent

No, it's not.

edit: It's illegal to kill a wounded enemy combatant who's in your possession or in the act of surrendering. It's not illegal to kill a wounded enemy "in the field of war," as you put it, who's taking cover or trying to escape your attack.

 

[fluff]

Reagan funded the contras to fight the USSR?