[Gelbwurstbrot]

Anyone have any experience with this bike?
I've tried searching but have just found posts about the weight and nothing about how does it ride.

 

[klunky]

I guess it rides well considering the frame weighs in at around 18 grams.

 

[jvnixon]

Your searching skills need some work:

http://www.asilvertouch.com/features.php?feature_id=92
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/site/BC/mtb/News2006/20060607_danny_hart_interview.asp

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152018&highlight=appalache
http://sicklines.com/interbike2006/appalache

etc, etc

 

[Gelbwurstbrot]

Thanks, but
1. writer works for the Canadian distributor....
2. just an interview
3. Thread about 1.
4. just pictures

Anyone have any experience with this bike?

 

[dancassidy]

This might be worth a look?

http://www.ride-central.com/archive.php?subaction=showfull&id=1151673446&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&

 

[jvnixon]

nice, editing posts the ride-central one is more of what your new edited requirements meet

 

[dropmachine]

I think theres a good chance we'llg et one in, and i'm glad to say we seem to be a pain in the arse for many companies cause my bribery price is high.

One of my riders had a chance to rip around on one. He did mention a bunch of flex out of the rear end, but a nice smooth ride.

 

[Gelbwurstbrot]

nice, editing posts the ride-central one is more of what your new edited requirements meet

I just have deleted a word which I wrote twice in my first post.
My english is not the best, so my posts always need few edits.

Thanks for the info Jeff.
Will keep an eye on your website.

 

[819]

I wrote that article, and like it says I wrote it before I got involved with the company. So be skeptical if you want. I no longer work ride for or are affiliated in any way with Appalache.

In any case if you want to know how the bike rides those were my impressions. I didnt come out and say " this bike sucks" or " Appalache was on crack when they decided to do this" but if you read the review you'll read that the head angle on last years bike (which is different from this years) was a bit steep, the rear and felt a bit short in the wide open, and the bb felt a bit high (either that or bacause the suspension ramped up it didnt' drop into the corners like the BB7).

You'll also find that for the production bike he was lowering it and slackening it. I'm not sure what else he has done for this years but based on those two details I'm sure it will ride much better when the terrain gets fast.

If you wanted to race I'd wait for the 2007 bike (which is what I did, and it never came). If you're going freeriding, or ride a hill with relativly little wide open and lots of tight conerers you'll like one of the 15 or so pre-production bikes.

 

[819]

Just a note on the ride-central article. Their bike like the one asilvertouch.com tested was one of the older generation, so still no insight on the new geometry.

 

[midas]

Wayne @ nsmb.com had a pretty sick one, ask him about it but i think he may be involved in yodo distribution so who knows.

 

[Demomonkey]

One of my riders had a chance to rip around on one. He did mention a bunch of flex out of the rear end, but a nice smooth ride.[/QUOTE]

I'm not surprised your rider commented on flex. They run standard QR dropouts on pretty skinny looking tubes, not surprising people are raving about the weight.

 

[Wayne]

Wayne @ nsmb.com had a pretty sick one, ask him about it but i think he may be involved in yodo distribution so who knows.

We don't sell Appalache anymore.

 

[downhillracer]

wait, so are they just another balfa or what?

 

[frznnomad]

there made by the old balfa crew. i dont know if its the same linkage or not but these things acctually look like quality frames, and linkage. im digging them i just dont like the geo and i like a slacker bike with a longer rear end.

 

[dhpunk~]

our team tested this bike back in the fall of /05.
every rider had very similar complaints with the steep head angle, rear end flex and the lack of response through corners. cant remember for the life of me the geo of the frame or BB height, but the frame weight was kept real low, making me believe the sluggish cornering was due to BB height.
the quality and workmanship was barnone the best i have ever seen....id like to see the back end stay the same length, slacker head, lower BB....i dont think the rear end flex would bother me so much.

 

[jamie@balfa]

The headangle has been slacked by approx 1 degree on the production frames and they now have Dangerboy linkage plates. We have added a small spacer bar between the link plates (a la BB7) to help stiffen things up front even more. The rear end will always feel more flexy than an alloy job but thats the whole idea. If you normally run alloy rear ends then you wont be used to the flex on the Appalache but once on board, there is no more flex than the BB7. The BB height has stayed roughly the same as has the rear end length. Most of the differences between the 06 & the 07 frame is purely cosmetic to tidy things up for production other than the head angle.

J

 

[FlipFantasia]

I'm still rippin' my '02 bb7 and one of the few bikes I'd consider getting to replace it is this new model, the pre-pro definitely didn't suit my tastes as much as this one, it's looking really tight. I especially like the one-piece linkplate, very sleek compared to the old two-piece style one that, while looking seriously beat down on my rig, is holding up pretty decently considering the thrashing I give it on a regular basis! nice work boys!

 

[frznnomad]

originally posted by jamie@balfa
The rear end will always feel more flexy than an alloy job but thats the whole idea. If you normally run alloy rear ends then you wont be used to the flex on the Appalache but once on board, there is no more flex than the BB7.

so here is the question for you. what kind of metal is the appalache made out of if its not the same alluminum the rest of the dh world uses, and what is it about that alloy that makes it okay to flex. because i dont know about you but i want my rear end to be as stiff as it can be to help with tracking and highspeed manuvers

 

[dropmachine]

Its a fancy new alloy called "steel."

Just like a BB7, the rear of the Appalache is steel, although for the life of me I have no idea why.

 

[dump]

Just like a BB7, the rear of the Appalache is steel, although for the life of me I have no idea why.

Inexpensive, easy to weld, clearance?

 

[dropmachine]

I suppose, but in that case why not do the whole thing? Obviously they can weld aluminum, and it would lead to a stiffer, lighter bike on the whole.

Whatever though, it does lead to a unique feel thats for sure.

 

[WheelieMan]

Using steel in this case really doesn't improve tire clearance, because the bike has 135mm rear spacing, and super short chainstays. The tire will contact the chainguide before it would ever hit the swingarm.
Ease of repair is a major advantage, should the swingarm ever break...

 

[MrPlow]

Steel swingarms (or even carbon) make a lot of sense to me. Aluminium has a pretty **** fatigue life, steel can handle being belted about on the rear end of a bike for a lot longer. Then add a nice stiff aluminium frame (that is suspended and getting a nice smooth ride) plus the bonus of a little give in the frame as well

 

[frznnomad]

^^^ agreed, but my big thing is that steel has a lot more flex than alluminum. it will give the bike a totally different feel for sure, and from the reviews and what everyone else is saying it does. i guess it just doesnt make much since to me. i mean why make a steel swingarm, and go with an alluminum frame due to the fact that they react totally different from each other. i personally dont like the idea of my swing arm flexing more than my frame.

originally posted by dropmachine.com
Its a fancy new alloy called "steel."

okay so you got me there. i just cant figure out for the life of me why you would make a steel swingarm and alluminum frame.

 

[FlipFantasia]

well my swingarm has a couple million + of vert on it....I like they way the bike rides, steel's real.....

 

[Udi]

but my big thing is that steel has a lot more flex than alluminum.

That's incorrect.
Steel is stiffer than aluminium, if you made an identical structure with both materials the steel one would be stiffer (as well as having a longer fatigue life, greater surface hardness, etc). I'm sure grades of steel and aluminium will come into play here too, but as a general comparison that holds true.

The issue that comes into play is that steel is also heavier, so generally a steel frame will have smaller tubes and reduced wall thickness so that the finished product will not be overly heavy. That can lead to more flex, but it is definitely not because steel was the material choice.

As for the balfa/appalache - I think the flex issue may be owing a little to the tubing size in an attempt to keep the frame light, but another cause would be the pathetic linkage/pivot plates and hardware setup they used to use (sounds like they've sorted it on the latest models though). That issue is only compounded by the QR rearend, 135x12 wouldn't be hard to implement and would probably provide noticeable stiffness gains on that frame.

I'm all for light frames too, but at the end of the day - you need a slack head angle and a low BB. The HA looks fine, but 14.75" is too high IMO, and at the end of the day i'd much sooner ride a heavier, lower and stiffer frame.

 

[dropmachine]

- The slack headangle thing ins't true. You don't need one, but many prefer it. The commencal DH has a steeper head angle then most are used to, but it provides the bike with crazy sharp handling, especially if you are a skilled rider. That said, it takes some getting used to, especially if you're coming off a lazyboy bike.

 

[Udi]

What does yours measure at, with the boxxer?

I ride a 66deg bike and have no dramas, but any steeper than that (67 for example) and I find stability starts dropping off in high speed sections.

PS - per the weightweenie thread, what does the commencal frame weigh with dhx/steel? Just curious, as I haven't seen an accurate weight figure on them.

 

[dropmachine]

I weighed mine at about 10.8 (if I remember correctly, which I'm not too sure I am) which aint super lgiht, but its not terrible either. Thats for the M/L frame too.

 

[SPDR]

Do any of you "too flexy" guys take any notice of Moto GP bikes?
They have gone away from the ever increasing quest for stiffness as it was adversly effecting lap times. When leaned over there was no vertical compliance in the frame which lead to a reduction in grip, so now the frames are designed to have an amount of flex to be faster.

It's the same thing that happens in off cambers on a DH run, that little bit of compliance could aid the mechanical grip. That's one of the reasons a WC DH mechanic friend builds "soft" wheels rather than making them super rigid.

A bit of horizontal compliance could be your friend.......

 

[In8Racing]

When leaned over there was no vertical compliance in the frame which lead to a reduction in grip...

I think you meant horizontal or lateral...:biggrin:

 

[Kornphlake]

I think you meant horizontal or lateral...:biggrin:

I think he meant vertical.

 

[Bicyclist]

I think you meant horizontal or lateral...:biggrin:

Look at a bike leaned over. What would normally be considered lateral is now vertical.

 

[SPDR]

Bl**dy pedants

:biggrin:

 

[jamie@balfa]

Why should we build an alloy swingarm just because everyone else does?
Its not steel for cheapness or because its easier to weld. Its because it gives our bikes a unique ride feel thats not found on any aluminium bike out there. The steel tube also allows us to run smaller diameter tubes giving greater tyre clearance, which, in turn allows us to run a super short rear end. Using larger diameter alloy tubes just means the stays would have to be longer to get the same clearance.
Balfa have used this way of thinking for the last 15 years and we never had any issues which is one of the reasons that we have carried it over onto the Appalache brand.

J

 

[frznnomad]

originally posted by jamie@balfa
giving greater tyre clearance, which, in turn allows us to run a super short rear end.

okay that makes perfect since man, and it deffinatly gives the bike a different feel than anything out there. although i dont really understand why tire clearance is such a huge deal. the frame is advertised as a racer and i dont know to many racers that want to run anything over 2.5 size tire. i mean i understand that some tires are a little thinner and a little bigger than that, but when you say more tire clearance to me that means being able to squeeze a 2.7 in there rather than just a 2.5. i mean it makes perfect since why you guys did it. its just that to me it doesnt make much since, but hey you guys are the designers im just a rider.

 

[FlipSide]

I've never tried it myself, but I've been told by several peoples that running Comp32 2.8 front and rear is quite an orgasmic experience.

 

[jon-boy]

To anyone not riding in Cali or the desert, tyre clearance (or mud clearance) is a nice thing to have. Also not having a super long rear end is attractive to some.

 

[Transcend]

Balfa have used this way of thinking for the last 15 years and we never had any issues which is one of the reasons that we have carried it over onto the Appalache brand.

J

I was gonna stay outta this thread, but that is just false. I have lived and breathed bikes in balfa land (montreal) since their inception. I travelled and stayed with the balfa guys on numerous ocassions to events, and was friends with most of their team members as well as Jerome, Hugo etc.

The older frames had all sorts of issues. It was a running joke with every rider up here. Frames that broke were welded and returned to riders with huge scorch marks on them where a simple steel collar was slipped over the broken area and welded into place. Frames came out of the factory crooked, with wheels not even on the same plane. Front and rear wheels had different angles, and were not even lined up. Riders were told "it's no big deal".

MANY rear ends and front ends broke, and were fixed in haphazard ways.

Balfa came a long way from that point to the point where they were bought, but saying that their hasn't been any problems in 15 years is absurd.

okay that makes perfect since man, and it deffinatly gives the bike a different feel than anything out there. although i dont really understand why tire clearance is such a huge deal. the frame is advertised as a racer and i dont know to many racers that want to run anything over 2.5 size tire. i mean i understand that some tires are a little thinner and a little bigger than that, but when you say more tire clearance to me that means being able to squeeze a 2.7 in there rather than just a 2.5. i mean it makes perfect since why you guys did it. its just that to me it doesnt make much since, but hey you guys are the designers im just a rider.

Go race at Mt Ste Anne on the world cup course, or the Ft Bill world cup course or Nevegal. Many riders go to larger (2.7/2.8) tires at these events to prevent flats and offer more grip.