[syadasti]

Government propaganda is different, that is public figures using underhanded measures to change public opinion on issues that directly impact their lives and their country.

Are you really comparing a marketing campaign for an MP3 player or "extreme" potato chips to government propaganda? Way to have perspective.

If an effective marketing campaign seperates a few sheep from their money, big deal. It's what makes the world go 'round.

So as long as its private companies trying to steal people's money, its ok

I am saying they are all wrong and taking advantage of people's ignorance should not be applauded or even acceptable.

Blatant false advertising is illegal for a reason. Slick marketing isn't too far from false advertising - in fact the BBB and other organizations overseas have required Apple to stop some ad campaigns in the past (G5 commercial claiming world's fastest and first 64-bit PC comes to mind as the most recent one).

 

[binary visions]

Oh, Jesus.

I'm not going to sit here and argue this with you.

People need to take some of their own damn responsibility for their money. It's pathetic when terms like "stealing" are flung around, as if these consumers had their money siphoned away from them outside of their control.

Blatent false advertising about the actual capabilities of a product is wrong, e.g. stating that a product holds 60gb when it only holds 30gb. Implying that the product might be different from the rest of the market with a slogan like "think different" is simply spinning it in a certain marketing direction and people need to make their own decisions. If they can't be bothered to learn about a product before spending $300 on it, then that's a personal problem.

Nobody is holding your hand, guiding you through life. Learn about your options before you make decisions, or suffer the consequences. It's part of being your own person.

 

[syadasti]

Apple was guilty of blantant false advertising with the G5 and thats why the BBB had the ads pulled and they were also banned in the UK.

My point is you should not admire any individual or organization that benefits from underhanded tactics. I'm not trying to say all Apple marketing is wrong or illegal. Apple marketing is stronger, more slanted, and tends to go overboard (like XTREME products) and that is what I dislike.

Marketing has gotten out of control - take a look at America's obesity problem caused by the junk food industry - its an exact psychological warfare that begins as soon as children have any influence in product decisions.

Once upon a time, food commercials targeted mom. Today, food marketing aimed directly at children is a $10 billion dollar industry. And two-thirds of Americans polled say it’s a major contributor to childhood obesity.

Susan Linn, psychologist: Kids are bombarded with marketing from the moment they get up in the morning to the moment they go to bed at night.

Harvard psychologist Susan Linn calls it “brainwashing” and wants it to end. So she joined with concerned parents and advocacy groups to serve notice, that they intend to sue cereal-makers and children’s TV channels—for marketing unhealthy food to kids.

Linn: There’s no moral, ethical or social justification for marketing junk food to kids. I mean it’s not good for them.

A typical child sees 40,000 commercials a year. More than half of them for fast food, candy, soft drinks, and sweetened breakfast cereals.

But TV is just the beginning...

 

[binary visions]

Please re-read the first two lines of my last post.

 

[sanjuro]

Do you applaud companies for promoting the "EXTREME" sports lifestyle/image?

Most people dislike marketing bull**** or progapanda in any form. Why would you admire companies or for that matter politicians/governments who use such underhanded devices effectively?

Now you have taken this marketing stuff too seriously. My image of the ipod is a silhouette dancing to hip music. My image of a Macintosh is the use of a BSD kernel.

Marketing is a 30 second commercial. Do you take ads for soap, cars, or beer as seriously?

BTW, I suppose you don't use Fox, clothing or forks? I hear they are promoting the extreme lifestyle.

 

[Ridemonkey]

I'm sure this is just evil Apple marketing guerilla propaganda, but I'm curious what the response is to this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060823/ap_on_hi_te/tech_test_mac_pro_3

 

[syadasti]

Now you have taken this marketing stuff too seriously...My image of a Macintosh is the use of a BSD kernel.

How many Apple commercials for the general public talk about BSD (there have been only a handful that mention "the power of unix", but they don't specify BSD.) BSD comes from your own knowledge, not marketing.

Marketing is a 30 second commercial. Do you take ads for soap, cars, or beer as seriously?

I don't take them seriously but I find plenty annoying and offensive. Ever hear of Tivo? Adblock for firefox? Popup blockers? etc, etc...

We are talking the general public, not you or I. Marketing works otherwise companies wouldn't wasted millions on it.

BTW, I suppose you don't use Fox, clothing or forks? I hear they are promoting the extreme lifestyle.

I am not talking about real outdoor products companies which truly are used for alternative sports. I am talking about Slim Jims, Mountain Dew, SUV ads, and other marketing XTREME trash.

 

[Ridemonkey]

The difference is that Shimano isn't known for childish references to the competition and claims of being the first and only innovator. Does the president of Shimano attend large annual public conferences were he spouts his silly smug propaganda?

You're right...such a shady business tactic...imagine, the head of a company talking about its products in a public setting...

 

[syadasti]

I'm sure this is just evil Apple marketing guerilla propaganda, but I'm curious what the response is to this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060823/ap_on_hi_te/tech_test_mac_pro_3

Nothing because I already knowledged this a few weeks ago

 

[syadasti]

You're right...such a shady business tactic...imagine, the head of a company talking about its products in a public setting...

Too bad you can't read cause I already said MS was bad

History shows Apple doesn't innovative - just making that clear. Apple isn't much better than MS when it comes to stealing ideas and passing them off as their own new "exciting" products.

 

[sanjuro]

I am not talking about real outdoor products companies which truly are used for alternative sports. I am talking about Slim Jims, Mountain Dew, SUV ads, and other marketing XTREME trash.

Marketing is what drive businesses. The problem I have with marketing today is that is so effective. My counterparts from Generation X are the geniuses who dream this crap up, which is basically selling out what is "valuable" to us.

Think I enjoy hearing "TV Eye" to sell a Xterra (snowboarder does a gap jump) or "Lust for Life" to sell cruises? Yeah, I do enjoy hearing a quick snippet of my favorite artist, which is why marketing today is so effective.

 

[Ridemonkey]

Too bad you can't read cause I already said MS was bad

My point is they're all "bad". That's business. Since when does Tide make your dirty socks perfectly white? When does your home gym make you look like the dude in the commercial? When does beer get you hot chicks in tank tops and booty shorts? Do cigarattes make you a slick looking camel?

Advertising is the semi-legitimate way for companies to get their products recognition. It's used by EVERY company in EVERY market. Get over it.

 

[syadasti]

Advertising is the semi-legitimate way for companies to get their products recognition. It's used by EVERY company in EVERY market. Get over it.

Apple marketing isn't delivered as completely obvious hyperbole like most products...

 

[Ridemonkey]

"The world's fastest personal computer."

You're right, hardly hyperbole.

 

[syadasti]

"The world's fastest personal computer."

You're right, hardly hyperbole.

Yeah and then they include one or two very specific PPC optimized plugin benchmarks in print ads and try to act like its factual proof when its a just pseudo technical BS special case. Next Apple switches platforms and tell the truth - G5 is slower, we were lying

And also in the G5 commercial and also a lie - first 64-bit PC, if you don't count the half dozen other PC that came before.

This fastest/first campaign was banned in the US and the UK, it was false advertising Apple TRIED TO REPRESENT AS FACTUAL...

Here are the firsts...

First 64-bit PC - 1992 (one decade before the Apple G5!)
"The DECpc 150/AXP was the first 'Alpha PC' produced by Digital. The idea behind them was to make an Alpha system with a PC-like peripheral environment, thereby allowing to use as much cheap PC hardware as possible. DEC's primary intent was to run Windows NT, and this machine was sold with a preinstalled NT 3.1 via Vobis, Germany's largest computer seller. It was a great flop, given that the NT 3.1 this machine was sold with was the first Alpha version of NT that still consisted mostly of i386 code, so the processor spent most of the time emulating an Intel CPU. Selling it with only 16 Mbytes of RAM didn't make the situation better... ":
http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/alf/axp150/

First Mainstream 64-bit CPU Value/Mainstream Computers-
Alpha Windows NT Boxes (ran NT with the FX!32) - started at under $2K released in 1997 - Polywell was one of the three main vendors with an offering - failed to catch on cause it was slower emulating 32-bit x86 programs than running them on the real thing again (duh!).

After that there was AMD 64-bit Opteron PC announced April 2003. June 2003 BOXX Technologies shipped it before the G5 was even announced. It has an Opteron 244 in it.

 

[Ridemonkey]

You are impossible.

 

[syadasti]

You are impossible.

All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.

 

[reflux]

I wish I could live a life void of any useless marketing and advertising directed towards me. Life a a quaker or a mormon fundamentalist would freakin r0x0r!!1!

 

[syadasti]

I wish I could live a life void of any useless marketing and advertising directed towards me. Life a a quaker or a mormon fundamentalist would freakin r0x0r!!1!

Quit watching your TV then. I've probably only watched a few of hours in the past 6 months...

You obviously don't know any Quakers. Quaker camps rule, I went to this one (they have coed sauna nights BTW):

Campers are free to wear what they want at the waterfronts as well. The acceptance of skinny dipping at F&W waterfronts has roots going back 60 years and happens only when specific conditions are met. Staff initiate discussions about respect for the human body, nudity, privacy, making choices, and respecting others’ choices. Campers are encouraged to choose what they want to wear at the waterfront and that choice can include nothing at all. Some campers and staff continue to wear suits, while others choose not to. We actively support every individual’s choice. Because of the active interactions between our camps during square dances, trips and other shared activities, it is likely that campers will encounter co-ed environments. This may include waterfronts where skinny-dipping is practiced.

 

[maxyedor]

I am not talking about real outdoor products companies which truly are used for alternative sports. I am talking about Slim Jims, Mountain Dew, SUV ads, and other marketing XTREME trash.

Hmm, the other day I was driving my SUV to the trail while drinking Mountain Dew, eating a Slim Jim, and jaming to tunes on my iPod, wearing a Fox t-shirt. You must think I'm a retard. But in actuallity the SUV does what I need a car to do, Mountain Dew and tastes good, Slim Jims are cheap and spicy, and the iPod cost about the same as other players, but I found it to have better egoomics, ehile being smaller.

Seriously dude, take a deap breath. BMWs are sold as the "Ultimate Driving Machine" I've never seen any atempt at providing data to prove that, but I don't hear you calling them out for it. England's rules for truth in advertisig are whacky, they basicly state that you can't make any claims that can be argued in any way. "The G5 is fast" not acceptable "The G5 is silver" would be.

Apple says the Mac Pro is faster because it IS faster than the G5. That's what evolution is about in the computer industry. Apple reached the end of the usufull life of the PowerPC chip and switched to Intel. Intel made the Pentium, the Pentium 2, Pentium 3, ect, they kept coming out with new chips to better suit the market. Apple had the G3, G4, G5, then to better suit the market they switched to Intel, the current Intel chip is faster for cheaper than the G5 was, just like the G5 was faster for cheaper than the older Intel chip set.

If you just hate Apple say it. Stop with the "They use false advertising to bilk the consumer" BS.

 

[syadasti]

Apple says the Mac Pro is faster because it IS faster than the G5. That's what evolution is about in the computer industry. Apple reached the end of the usufull life of the PowerPC chip and switched to Intel. Intel made the Pentium, the Pentium 2, Pentium 3, ect, they kept coming out with new chips to better suit the market. Apple had the G3, G4, G5, then to better suit the market they switched to Intel, the current Intel chip is faster for cheaper than the G5 was, just like the G5 was faster for cheaper than the older Intel chip set.

If you just hate Apple say it. Stop with the "They use false advertising to bilk the consumer" BS.

They claimed the G5 was the first 64-bit PC - it wasn't. They've claimed the Gx was faster than PC of the time through the different generations of CPU, but thats never panned out either in comprehensive tests. The G5 ads were false advertisement - BBB in the US AND UK both agreed.

Also G4 notebook CPU = slower than Pentium Mobile [CPU of the Intel Centrino notebook platform] from past generation too. Pentium Mobile is the same architecture as the Core series (the ones that beat the G5):

Intel Core is the name used for the processor codenamed Yonah (Hebrew transliteration for Jonah - יונ&#1492, released on January 5, 2006. It replaced the Pentium M brand used for earlier mobile processors with the same microarchitecture. It was part of a major rebranding effort by Intel starting January 2006; the next generation of desktop and mobile processors after the Intel Core processor is the Intel Core 2, replacing the Pentium brand.

Core 2 is an eighth-generation x86 architecture microprocessor produced by Intel based on the Intel Core Microarchitecture. It is also the basis for the Xeon (Woodcrest) found in the new Mac Pro.

People who believe Apple claims don't think different, they don't think at all

 

[maxyedor]

They claimed the G5 was the first 64-bit PC - it wasn't. They've claimed the Gx was faster than PC of the time through the different generations of CPU, but thats never panned out either in comprehensive tests. The G5 ads were false advertisement - BBB in the US and UK both agreed.

Also G4 notebook CPU = slower than Pentium Mobile from past generation too. Pentium Mobile is the same architecture as the Core series (the ones that beat the G5):



People who believe Apple claims don't think different, they don't think at all

May I please see the test results that showed difinatively that Pentium M chips were faster than G4 chips. I never said that I beleive the claims of faster speed vs PC, all I know is that virtualy the entire photography industry used and is based on OSX. Also when I used to use Windows I had my PC crash or freeze at least once a week, hell I had a Dell that I couldn't even get photoshop installed on, or get conected to the internet. Sent it back and they said "It's fine" took it to a computer repair place and they said "It's fvcked" I got the same responce from everybody who looked at that thing, finaly trew it away. Since switching to Apple I have had narry a problem. My sony battery in my laptop is being recalled, but same thing happened with Dells.

Also when will we be seing your"BMW is a bunch of lying crooks" thread?

 

[sanjuro]

What do I care what idiots do? Let them swallow any lie given to them

- George Bush

 

[syadasti]

May I please see the test results that showed difinatively that Pentium M chips were faster than G4 chips. I never said that I beleive the claims of faster speed vs PC, all I know is that virtualy the entire photography industry used and is based on OSX. Also when I used to use Windows I had my PC crash or freeze at least once a week, hell I had a Dell that I couldn't even get photoshop installed on, or get conected to the internet. Sent it back and they said "It's fine" took it to a computer repair place and they said "It's fvcked" I got the same responce from everybody who looked at that thing, finaly trew it away. Since switching to Apple I have had narry a problem. My sony battery in my laptop is being recalled, but same thing happened with Dells.

Also when will we be seing your"BMW is a bunch of lying crooks" thread?

Just cause you or some users on RM can't use a PC correctly doesn't mean anything.

For significant pattern you look at the entire group of computer users, we'll see that only 6% use mac as better for their balance of their needs - not the highest Apple's userbase has even been if you look at historical userbase. People and/or specific industries are heavily invested in skills and platforms, so the trends in overall userbase over longer time periods show which platform is doing a better job rather than a specific industry or useage - change in those cases will be take many years if they happen at all (only very significant benefits will outweigh the invested training and capital in the platform.) I definately agree Apple has had a much better platform since they've switched to OSX and will only get better with Intel (or AMD) inside.

BMW or other car makers don't make very specific claims which can easily be proven true or false.

 

[blue]

BMW or other car makers don't make very specific claims which can easily be proven true or false.

TEH 327i HAS TEH MOST HORSEPOWER OF ANY AUTOMOBILE EVERZORZ@O$!!(&)!111ondeone

I think Apple ditched PowerPC because IBM/moto let it sit dead in the water in the PC market and instead redirected everything over to embedded...

Someone buy me an iMac.

 

[Ciaran]

It's like a frikking computer jihad in here. How did I miss this thread?

 

[maxyedor]

Just cause you or some users on RM can't use a PC correctly doesn't mean anything.

So no link to the aformention test results? Or are they secret?

Also I do not beleive your assumption that myself as well as other RM users are just too inept to use a PC, and if we are then bravo for Apple for making a computer that us inept retards can use without issue. But as I do ot beleive that we are a bunch of idiots, perhaps you could enlighten us as to the "proper" way to use a PC. I was somehow able to batch proccess over 1000 RAW images last night on my G5 in about an hour, imagine what I could have doe on a PC if I olny knew how to operate one. When I tried that sort of thing on my old PC it used to like to crash left and right. The thing I like about Apple is that I can buy a new computer, take it out of the box, load Photoshop, then start working in under 30 mins, and it will keep working fine for years, I don't need to kow a "proper" way of using it.

Also while "The Ultimate Driving Machine" is not a claim of any specific performance, you seem to hate Apple because of their "Think Different" attitude as well as their claims of speed. So do you hate all marketing departsments or just Apple's. That's what companies do, they make claims, most of wich can't be backed by evidence, Apple was just not very smart with the wording of theirs, had they run "G5, it's bloody fast" there would be no problem, but they singled out another product and said "we're faster than that". Do you get pissed when bike companies lie about weight, car companies lie about horse-power and 0-60 times and fuel ecconomy.

I'm not an Apple fanboy, I just wonder what your issue is with a company that makes claims it can't support, while you yourself make arguments against that company that you can't support.

 

[binary visions]

...aaannd there's been enough stupidity for one thread. On to the next Apple thread that syadasti does his level best to destroy