[imageWIS]

Way to be another troll!

People who don't use macs just won't ever get it. I have come to this conclusion. Yes, os x is dying off...sure.

I love how people who have clue what they are talking about, explain how a processor change makes it a wintel box now. It was motorolla, then went to IBM...didn't become a wintel box then. Now they move to intel and it's all of a sudden no different from a PC?

Guess what, LG has a fridge with an intel processor in it. I guess it's a lousy fridge now too. Way to go LG, killing off the fridge market by selling PCs...

My 4.5lb powerbook has as much power as some of the 11lb dells, with a nicer lcd to boot. My system is much more pleasant to use, and much more user friendly for most things. I can leverage pretty much any linux application if I want, as well.

Also, one button mice have been dead since the 90s.

That's a good place to start.

I have 6 computers in my office. I run linux, macos and windows in different flavours on a daily basis. For daily use, i pick my powerbook every single time.

So I don’t agree with your stance regarding Mac, so I must be another troll…very logical.

The difference is that before they didn’t have Windows available for Mac. Other than OS X and the way the actual computer looks, what else is better about a Mac? Also, just FYI Mac has about 5% of the market, and I bet that if Adobe stopped making programs for OS X, that number would look more like 0.5%.

Jon.

 

[Transcend]

So I don’t agree with your stance regarding Mac, so I must be another troll…very logical.

The difference is that before they didn’t have Windows available for Mac. Other than OS X and the way the actual computer looks, what else is better about a Mac? Also, just FYI Mac has about 5% of the market, and I bet that if Adobe stopped making programs for OS X, that number would look more like 0.5%.

Jon.

No, the troll part is that you are simply one of those "oh it's cool to bag on mac" people, so you enter what is CLEARLY a mac thread, to start an argument.

If you honestly can't see any difference when using a mac or a pc, be it good or bad, then this discussion is over as you are obviously blind and/or ignorant.

 

[imageWIS]

No, the troll part is that you are simply one of those "oh it's cool to bag on mac" people, so you enter what is CLEARLY a mac thread, to start an argument.

If you honestly can't see any difference when using a mac or a pc, be it good or bad, then this discussion is over as you are obviously blind and/or ignorant.

So, I’m really only part troll…

Interestingly enough this is the second time you have just gone with ad hominem attacks rather than posting a counter-position, clear proof that you don’t actually have a viable counter-argument.

I never said there aren’t innovations or good ideas to come out of Mac, like: the MessagePad Newton, or the QuickTake, however as bas as their R&D dept is, their implementation department is horrible, and at the end they often seem to flounder, even with high-end and innovative designs / technology, and their consumer side sales show this, especially before companies like Microsoft took a bigger bite out of the Apple and bought Apple stock.

Who’s more ignorant the guy that blindly follows Apple, for they can do no wrong or the guy that can see both the good and bad? Obviously its easier to call me ignorant than actually making your point…

Jon.

 

[jimmydean]

So I don’t agree with your stance regarding Mac, so I must be another troll…very logical.

The difference is that before they didn’t have Windows available for Mac. Other than OS X and the way the actual computer looks, what else is better about a Mac? Also, just FYI Mac has about 5% of the market, and I bet that if Adobe stopped making programs for OS X, that number would look more like 0.5%.

Jon.

Just so you know, since the release of OS X, a large majority of Linux based companies (at least in my area) have switched to Macs. When I started with my current company, I got my first Mac. Now I know the difference and doubt I will ever go back.

When I was at Intel, all the Linux developers were excited about gettting Macs to develop on now that they would be Intel powered.

I have one Windows box and it's only for games. Once more games are ported to Linux and OS X, I will no longer need that. I do all my real work on a Mac and when I was at Intel, I did all my real work on Linux. Intel doesn't care for Microsoft (slow apps makes fast hardware look bad) and they are happy switching to OS X.

So as soon as people start buying MacBooks and dual boot Windows, they will soon learn that Windows sucks and there are better things out there.

 

[Transcend]

See above, I made my point. You just proved it, once again. You also proved that you lack reading comprehension skills.

 

[jimmydean]

<snip>
I never said there aren’t innovations or good ideas to come out of Mac, like: the MessagePad Newton, or the QuickTake, however as bas as their R&D dept is, their implementation department is horrible, and at the end they often seem to flounder, even with high-end and innovative designs / technology, and their consumer side sales show this, especially before companies like Microsoft took a bigger bite out of the Apple and bought Apple stock.

Also, I know a growing number of UNIX admins who carry Powerbooks because OS X is by far the most stable and friendly OS available.

A good friend of mine said "You know how much you hate Windows since you switched to Linux for personal use? Wait until you see how bad Linux looks next to OS X, I woun't even try to compare it to Windows." Until January, I thought he was full of sh!t, now I know. I get pissed when I have to run Windows because of the performance and response.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Nope. I'm a professional designer - never heard of firefox.

O.K. then, sir. What don't you like about it?

 

[Transcend]

O.K. then, sir. What don't you like about it?

About firefox???? I like firefox, but safari is nicer. To be clear, I work on a mac all day now and am much happier, less tressed and more productive. I still have to write code all day for IE however.

I abhore IE in that it is the largest hunk of crap ever coded. They couldn't even get small things, like the friggin CSS Box model right. Never mind all of the propietary tags it uses, or the fact that it plain out refuses to behave like all other browsers. Oh, and 6 and 7 behave differently from each other on top of that.

It means you have to hack the code to hell and back, or write 2-3 completely different websites, that are selected via javascript on load or give users an option.

 

[maxyedor]

I want to congratulate Mac for either:

1) Completely screwing themselves out of the market by slowly helping to kill OS X
2) Or by staying exactly where they are now, at 5% of computer market share and not growing at all

Mac has basically turned into a PC maker that also makes portable sound (read: MP3) systems. Mac’s now use Intel chips and use Windows…so other than a slightly more stylish exterior and a 1-button mouse, what makes Mac different than a Dell?

Jon.

Well because this boot camp widget lets you run them simultaniously(sic) the benifit is this. All of the programs that run so nicley on Mac OSX will continue to do so, but because of the Intel chip they will be a grip faster. Windows, wich is a flawed operating system in the first place, will now run on your Mac.

What this means is that all of those graphic designers, photographers, video editors ect. that have relied on OSX for years will now be able to do what they always did, but faster becasue of the Intel chip. The guys that wanted a Mac but because they are a gamer, or what have you and are forced to rely on a windows based PC, because they don't have the cash to buy both a PC and Mac will now be able to buy a Mac and use it for everything.

To me this sounds like it will increase sales quite a bit.

The only downside is tha tlong time Mac users like me that havn't had a computer virus since Windows '93 may be caught out be the viruses because we just aren't used to dealing with them. That or as Mac gains market share hackers will decide to start targeting Macs. This is the only real downside to the new Bootcamp program.

But they still look really slick so you're right they will still sell a bunch based on that alone.

 

[binary visions]

As an industry person, this is interesting for me. I would actually seriously consider a piece of heavy duty Mac hardware for my next computer since it would allow me to run both operating systems, which doubles my opportunity to obtain experience and expertise for a wide variety of software.

The only thing that's a really, really big problem for me is the tightly held proprietary hardware. It makes it both expensive and doesn't give me a lot of options - and as a computer guy, I love having options with my hardware. Plus, I'm poor

 

[imageWIS]

See above, I made my point. You just proved it, once again. You also proved that you lack reading comprehension skills.

And you lack the ability to actually counterpoint and are only able to personally attack me instead of discussing the issue…it’s I who’s point has been made.

Of course, what can I expect from someone that so proudly shows that they are an ‘eBully’.

Jon.

 

[Toshi]

imageWIS, you put forth two inane, unsupported points and then expect a rigorous discussion? fyi, Apple is the company, not "Mac".

 

[imageWIS]

imageWIS, you put forth two inane, unsupported points and then expect a rigorous discussion? fyi, Apple is the company, not "Mac".

Yes, &#8216;Apple&#8217; is the company...of course they call almost all of their computers Mac, and their company is known as Mac, and they even call their shows Mac World&#8230;same as when they started calling the Message Pad the &#8216;Message Pad Newton&#8217; because everyone called it the name of the software and not its original name. I don&#8217;t think they keep track of what they call themselves. Again, that&#8217;s another problem they have with their lack of properly marketing to consumers.

Stating that using Windows on Mac computers is a good way to kill OS X is hardly inane, simply look at the history of other bygone OS &#8216; like OS/2....

Jon.

 

[bjanga]

Looks to me like windows is going to become the whored out compatibility/legacy arm and macOS the streamlined productivity one. Before I read this, I would have never thought about purchasing a mac . . .

 

[Toshi]

Yes, ?Apple? is the company...of course they call almost all of their computers Mac, and their company is known as Mac

Stating that using Windows on Mac computers is a good way to kill OS X is hardly inane, simply look at the history of other bygone OS ? like OS/2....

Jon.

uh, no, the company is not known as Mac. there is an online services arm called .Mac. perhaps you are confused. see www.mac.com vs. www.apple.com.

and os/2 is a poor analogy, as ibm never sold it on proprietary hardware. ibm had no mac-equivalent. os/2 is more like BeOS or nextstep, which both floundered when offered as windows alternatives (post next cube).

 

[Transcend]

Looks to me like windows is going to become the whored out compatibility/legacy arm and macOS the streamlined productivity one. Before I read this, I would have never thought about purchasing a mac . . .

BINGO. You and BV are the new target market. My next heavy hardware will also be the core duo replacement for the g5 when it hits stores.

I can then run all 3 major OS' on one piece of hardware... simultaneously if I want with parallel. Mac wins and the guys like the troll in this thread can sit at home and twiddle their thumbs playing with their windows only machine. Meanwhile I can bounce from Mac, to Windows to Linux.

Those blowhards like to call Macs toys....does this mean now that the PC is a toy? It is obviously inferior as it cannot use all 3 of the major OS'.

 

[sanjuro]

Yes, ‘Apple’ is the company...of course they call almost all of their computers Mac, and their company is known as Mac, and they even call their shows Mac World…same as when they started calling the Message Pad the ‘Message Pad Newton’ because everyone called it the name of the software and not its original name. I don’t think they keep track of what they call themselves. Again, that’s another problem they have with their lack of properly marketing to consumers.

Stating that using Windows on Mac computers is a good way to kill OS X is hardly inane, simply look at the history of other bygone OS ‘ like OS/2....

Jon.

OS/2 failed for two reasons:

1. Microsoft Windows application compatibility was miserable thanks to MS's SOP of zero compatibility.
2. It was slow compared to Windows, partly because of the extra code necessary to be compatible with Windows.

And I bet I have the most experience with OS/2 because I was a system operator at one point in my career.

OS/X, on the other hand, has its own applications and it is blazing fast, and Macs are now 100% compatible with Windows. Oh, and Macs seem to lack the security and virus problems that Windows suffer from.

Looks like Apple is doomed.

 

[Changleen]

All computers are toys.

 

[imageWIS]

BINGO. You and BV are the new target market. My next heavy hardware will also be the core duo replacement for the g5 when it hits stores.

I can then run all 3 major OS' on one piece of hardware... simultaneously if I want with parallel. Mac wins and the guys like the troll in this thread can sit at home and twiddle their thumbs playing with their windows only machine. Meanwhile I can bounce from Mac, to Windows to Linux.

Those blowhards like to call Macs toys....does this mean now that the PC is a toy? It is obviously inferior as it cannot use all 3 of the major OS'.

If Windows is so crappy, why run it on your Mac at all? I wouldn’t run OS X on my PC if I had the chance. I’m perfectly happy running XP and Linux.

Jon.

 

[imageWIS]

uh, no, the company is not known as Mac. there is an online services arm called .Mac. perhaps you are confused. see www.mac.com vs. www.apple.com.

and os/2 is a poor analogy, as ibm never sold it on proprietary hardware. ibm had no mac-equivalent. os/2 is more like BeOS or nextstep, which both floundered when offered as windows alternatives (post next cube).

Really? Let’s see:

iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook Pro, Power Mac G5, any of these ring any bells?

Even the employees at my local Apple store call everything Mac and not Apple.

Jon.

 

[Transcend]

If Windows is so crappy, why run it on your Mac at all? I wouldn&#8217;t run OS X on my PC if I had the chance. I&#8217;m perfectly happy running XP and Linux.

Jon.

How about, like many other mac users, I am a professional developer and need to test for the useless piece of software they like to call internet explorer.

Given the choice, I would never run windows at all as it's nothing more then a bloated pile of crap when compared to the other choices. Clearly, you have never actually USED OS X, as your opinion would be quite the opposite.

So good job with the ignorant trolling!

 

[Transcend]

Really? Let’s see:

iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook Pro, Power Mac G5, any of these ring any bells?

Even the employees at my local Apple store call everything Mac and not Apple.

Jon.

These are known as "MODELS", not brands. Is english not your first language, or what? You must have some excuse, as you claim to not be ignorant.

Intense is a brand, like apple. G5 and mac mini are the equivalents over the M1sl and the Tazer.

 

[jimmydean]

If Windows is so crappy, why run it on your Mac at all? I wouldn’t run OS X on my PC if I had the chance. I’m perfectly happy running XP and Linux.

Jon.

Have you ever used OS X? I mean, like for more than a few minutes? If you can use Linux, you would love OS X.

Windows sucks, there is no debate there. But for some people, they need to run Windows. I am a QA Engineer and as part of my job, I have to do some things in Windows like run web applications through IE (also sucks). With this in mind, the ability to do it on one box is a big bonous.

But will this "kill" OS X? Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Transcend]

Have you ever used OS X? I mean, like for more than a few minutes? If you can use Linux, you would love OS X.

Windows sucks, there is no debate there. But for some people, they need to run Windows. I am a QA Engineer and as part of my job, I have to do some things in Windows like run web applications through IE (also sucks). With this in mind, the ability to do it on one box is a big bonous.

But will this "kill" OS X? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Exactly. As seen even in this thread, this will cause even more people to buy mac hardware now. They can spend the same amount of money as a powerful PC would cost, and now be able to run every major OS on one machine.

Kill OS X...sure. Irgnorance must truly be bliss.

 

[sanjuro]

If Windows is so crappy, why run it on your Mac at all? I wouldn&#8217;t run OS X on my PC if I had the chance. I&#8217;m perfectly happy running XP and Linux.

Jon.

You better take a step back and think about what you are writing.

Everyone, including me, runs Windows for 3 reasons:

1. PC's are cheaper than Macs.
2. PC's have software unavailable to other O/S's.
3. Almost everyone runs PC's.

There are two practical reasons for using a Mac:

1. There are some applications, like video or music editing, which work better on the Mac platform.
2. Macs run way better than PC's, and have more apps than Linux.

There are only upsides for the Intel Macs to run Windows. No Mac person is going to make the switch to Windows, and it is unlikely a bargin hunter is going to buy a Mac. But Boot Camp makes the Mac compatible with two O/S's (3 with linux), and that is one more than other Intel machines.

P.S. I test enterprise software for the Unix and Windows platforms. No one in my team can mention the word Windows without rolling our eyes. And since I install and maintain Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, Red Hat, SuSE, and Windows, I can appreciate portability.

 

[binary visions]

If Windows is so crappy, why run it on your Mac at all? I wouldn&#8217;t run OS X on my PC if I had the chance. I&#8217;m perfectly happy running XP and Linux.

Jon.

Read my post.

I like Windows. Being a computer guy, I keep my PC in great running order, never with needless apps, crappy drivers, or the myriad of other problems that typically causes Windows to go unstable. Consequently, I reboot Windows only upon install of new system software or when I want to poke around in the BIOS.

However, it can be an immensely useful thing in the industry to be able to run a second or third operating system. From Transcend's perspective, it allows him to perform testing on his websites. From my perspective, it allows my resume to grow when I can confidently say that I could support an OSX group.

From ANYONE'S perspective, it allows options. Options to run Windows software OR Mac software, with no emulation. Let's face it, emulation has come a long way, but it still essentially sucks. When software vendors still state, "WINE compatible", then emulation sucks - you shouldn't have to state that a program is compatible, they should all run. And despite what the Mac people will tell you, Excel and Word files are not entirely cross-platform compatible. Simple ones are but I have worked with many, many files of both types where they don't open well when you switch platforms.

So... my next question is, why in the name of the great Lord Zeebrock do Macs still come with a single button mouse?!!?!? :mumble:

 

[mobius]

Man now that just dated my 1.5ghz powerbook g4 more. I thought nah my laptop is good for a little while longer its still fast enough for my designing. But i really want to be able to boot windows and play counterstrike since i sold my PC long ago to a friend. Plus proofing stuff in winders would be real nice too. When the g5 desktops go dual core intel i may have to get one.

 

[DHS]

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/04/06/parallels_offers_mac_vt_beta/

 

[imageWIS]

Read my post.

I like Windows. Being a computer guy, I keep my PC in great running order, never with needless apps, crappy drivers, or the myriad of other problems that typically causes Windows to go unstable. Consequently, I reboot Windows only upon install of new system software or when I want to poke around in the BIOS.

However, it can be an immensely useful thing in the industry to be able to run a second or third operating system. From Transcend's perspective, it allows him to perform testing on his websites. From my perspective, it allows my resume to grow when I can confidently say that I could support an OSX group.

From ANYONE'S perspective, it allows options. Options to run Windows software OR Mac software, with no emulation. Let's face it, emulation has come a long way, but it still essentially sucks. When software vendors still state, "WINE compatible", then emulation sucks - you shouldn't have to state that a program is compatible, they should all run. And despite what the Mac people will tell you, Excel and Word files are not entirely cross-platform compatible. Simple ones are but I have worked with many, many files of both types where they don't open well when you switch platforms.

So... my next question is, why in the name of the great Lord Zeebrock do Macs still come with a single button mouse?!!?!? :mumble:

Thank you!

(I won’t even get started with the one-button mouse…)

I never said Windows was good…far from it. I do use Linux (Red Hat) and of course it’s a lot better. But, I don’t like OS X, and have used it for quite more than a few minutes. I find OS X to be anti-technical; everything is simplified in a way that instead of allowing you to have options it lets you do things only one way, maybe two ways instead of giving you more options. As well, something’s are counterintuitive, like renaming files, which you would think should be relatively easy to accomplish, but while in Windows it’s a very straight-forward task, on a Mac its not.

The reason I use Windows is because work utilizes Windows, school utilizes Windows and everyone else I know utilizes Windows. Why would I use a Mac when, as you stated even programs like Word don’t have complete cross-compatible files. I liken having a Mac vs. a PC to running a hydrogen-powered car in an area that only has one station that carries hydrogen in a 1000-mile radius…your options are limited.

Unfortunately, Mac people are completely incorrigible when it comes to anything but Mac, you could give them an SGI supercomputer and they would still rather own a Mac. As you can tell from the personal attacks, it’s rather pointless to argue, they seem to treat me like I insulted their first born…it’s just a computer, people!

Jon.

 

[binary visions]

Thank you!

Did you miss most of my point?

I said this would be a useful thing that would even cause me to consider buying a Mac.

You said that this would kill Mac sales or at the very least kill their growth.

Read my post again. Your arguments about the OS are a moot point - the whole point here is that you now have the option to run multiple operating systems on a Mac. So, whether you like OS-X or Windows, you can run either one.

Actually, I could easily see this giving a lot of growth to OS-X users, since they can stick with Windows until they've used OS-X enough to be comfortable with it.

 

[imageWIS]

Exactly. As seen even in this thread, this will cause even more people to buy mac hardware now. They can spend the same amount of money as a powerful PC would cost, and now be able to run every major OS on one machine.

Kill OS X...sure. Irgnorance must truly be bliss.

The people that are going to buy Macs because Windows is available on Mac are going to run, wait for it: WINDOWS!

Jon.

 

[imageWIS]

Did you miss most of my point?

I said this would be a useful thing that would even cause me to consider buying a Mac.

You said that this would kill Mac sales or at the very least kill their growth.

Read my post again. Your arguments about the OS are a moot point - the whole point here is that you now have the option to run multiple operating systems on a Mac. So, whether you like OS-X or Windows, you can run either one.

Actually, I could easily see this giving a lot of growth to OS-X users, since they can stick with Windows until they've used OS-X enough to be comfortable with it.

My thanks was only regarding the one-button mouse.

But, you know what? I&#8217;ll just leave it as different strokes for different folks. Some people don&#8217;t seem to like Cannondale, and some people don&#8217;t like Trek.

Jon.

 

[sanjuro]

My thanks was only regarding the one-button mouse.

But, you know what? I’ll just leave it as different strokes for different folks. Some people don’t seem to like Cannondale, and some people don’t like Trek.

Jon.

You're wrong, and we're right.

 

[jimmydean]

So... my next question is, why in the name of the great Lord Zeebrock do Macs still come with a single button mouse?!!?!? :mumble:

I agree with this statement, but I use a 3 button mouse at home. It took some getting used to, but the one button (or in case of the iMac, no button) aint bad.

<edit> I have never use a "standard" mouse anyway, so using the same optical I use for a PC is no big deal.

 

[imageWIS]

You're wrong, and we're right.

Whatever...

Jon.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Really? Let&#8217;s see:

iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook Pro, Power Mac G5, any of these ring any bells?

Even the employees at my local Apple store call everything Mac and not Apple.

Jon.

OMG are you a moron...

 

[kinghami3]

So, when is Stinky gonna come out with a new Kona?

 

[bballe336]

ImageWIS:

Apple OSX will not die. For everyone that runs it it is the greatest thing to come around in a while. It's simple, fast, and stable. Yet it still allows you to do anything that you would do on a PC. Allowing windows dualboot will generate much more revenue and many new users. OSX is far from death. You obviously haven't ran OSX in depth enough to understand why people like it.

And yes, I would trade that SGI for an apple. A room full of xgrid'd g5's to be exact.

 

[Transcend]

Thank you!

(I won’t even get started with the one-button mouse…)

I never said Windows was good…far from it. I do use Linux (Red Hat) and of course it’s a lot better. But, I don’t like OS X, and have used it for quite more than a few minutes. I find OS X to be anti-technical; everything is simplified in a way that instead of allowing you to have options it lets you do things only one way, maybe two ways instead of giving you more options. As well, something’s are counterintuitive, like renaming files, which you would think should be relatively easy to accomplish, but while in Windows it’s a very straight-forward task, on a Mac its not.

The reason I use Windows is because work utilizes Windows, school utilizes Windows and everyone else I know utilizes Windows. Why would I use a Mac when, as you stated even programs like Word don’t have complete cross-compatible files. I liken having a Mac vs. a PC to running a hydrogen-powered car in an area that only has one station that carries hydrogen in a 1000-mile radius…your options are limited.

Unfortunately, Mac people are completely incorrigible when it comes to anything but Mac, you could give them an SGI supercomputer and they would still rather own a Mac. As you can tell from the personal attacks, it’s rather pointless to argue, they seem to treat me like I insulted their first born…it’s just a computer, people!

Jon.

Everytime you post something new, you show us how little you actually know about OSX.

Renaming files is exactly the same as windows, you click on the file name and type in a new one.

I have never encountered a single word doc i couldn't open perfectly. For that matter, nothing from the MS office suite (word, excel, powerpoint), nothing from adobe (Ai, Psd, InDesign), nothing from Macromedia, no video formats...see the point?

Again, use the system before you bitch. Also, I highly doubt people who pay a premium to get a mac are going to run windows on it. They'd simply get a windows box.

 

[imageWIS]

Also, I highly doubt people who pay a premium to get a mac are going to run windows on it. They'd simply get a windows box.

Exactly my point. And if Windows is so unstable, why have it reeking havoc on your ‘premium’ Mac components? If Mac really wanted to expand onto the market they should have also released a version of OS X for PC’s. And no, renaming in OS X is not as clear-cut as it is in Windows.

Jon.