on the other hand, brian still hasn't answered narlus' question of if he's actually taken the avy out to some real dh trails. iirc he has had one weekend of actual riding, but it would be nice to get it from the horse's mouthnickaziz said:
Are Avy forks that good?
- Thread starter Jesus
- Start date
Mine weighs in at 10.5lbs, which is not light by any means.BMXman said:
Yeah I rode it, its amazing but a little heavy. I was sick when I was riding so I was a little weak which made it more difficult to control the bike. I'm hoping to get another ride in on friday if it doesn't rain on some different terrain. But where I rode the first time, it gives you several different trail types from rocky, to rutted, to smooth single track and felt great on all of them.Toshi said:on the other hand, brian still hasn't answered narlus' question of if he's actually taken the avy out to some real dh trails. iirc he has had one weekend of actual riding, but it would be nice to get it from the horse's mouth
ok it's simple I have actually owned and weighed one...uncut steer and all with axle and it was 10.35lbs....that's an actual weight not "sounds like" or "seems like"...not trying ot be confrontational just trying to get some things straight...Dnickaziz said:
Brian HCM#1 said:
now were getting somewhere...thanks Brain...I'm hoping your will post a full review once you have had 20 hrs or so on it....D
I think I'd call them about the same weight.BMXman said:
well, Marz does do that sometimes...nickaziz said:
think thats what the old Monsters weighed in at. Its kinda funny if you look at the Fox 40, the Monster was ahead of its time. A little effort and they could of gotten the weight down.
I was just wondering....someone asked why the pros do not ride Avy...well, - the question has been answered, but I think it is also necessary to keep in mid that if you buy for instance a Boxxer....do you not exactly get the Boxxer the pros are running !!! I think Avy is about the best you ca buy ! If you buy a RS you are just supporting the development of the Pros' Boxxers.
For the question about Monster vs. Avy
I have both ridden the old Monster and am now riding a MTN-8. The first thing I noticed was that the Avy fork is taking up much more of the small stuff, which the Monster seems just to ride over (without much fork activity). I have not had any problems with flex, - actually it feels like the Avy is more burly than the Monster...but also heavier.
Well, - because of the H/L compression I was able to set up my Avy very soft without bottoming out on big stuff, - this was not possible on the Monster.
But do not forget that this is also two very different forks in a very different price range.
I have both ridden the old Monster and am now riding a MTN-8. The first thing I noticed was that the Avy fork is taking up much more of the small stuff, which the Monster seems just to ride over (without much fork activity). I have not had any problems with flex, - actually it feels like the Avy is more burly than the Monster...but also heavier.
Well, - because of the H/L compression I was able to set up my Avy very soft without bottoming out on big stuff, - this was not possible on the Monster.
But do not forget that this is also two very different forks in a very different price range.
so after one ride when you were sick, it's the most amazing fork on the planet.Brian HCM#1 said:
my pinkbike security filter just kicked in.
:nuts:
Only person I know who owned an Avy fork traded it for a 888. He said the Avy (DHF8) had superb damping and all the rest, BUT it was to heavy for his use. The stock 888, sure take some tuning before it gets good.
I'm considering a Avy fork myself, but I'm skeptic about the weight.. I thought my 02 monster was a bit on the heavy side, and that was 9,26lbs.
S
I'm considering a Avy fork myself, but I'm skeptic about the weight.. I thought my 02 monster was a bit on the heavy side, and that was 9,26lbs.
S
My Monster isn't great on the smaller stuff either. At Snowshoe this summer, my hands were killing me. But it is great on the big hits!seismic said:
I got 10wt oil in there, mabye I should try 7.5wt...or even 5wt...but alas, I weigh about 230 lbs.
Where are we going? I got Friday off. I've been back to the 'other place' 2 times since we wentBrian HCM#1 said:
I can understand, and appreciate, a product that is hand built, and tuned, will cost more money than a mass produced product i.e. boxxer, 888... I can also understand some of the logic in wanting to own that type of a product. However, the arguments regarding the pro's choices, and performance claims just dont hold water. How many people with Avy forks can say that the fork made them substantially faster? Did you upgrade classes? Did you start winning at the national level? I race semi-pro, and would love to be faster, but the reality is that it's 95% me and maybe 5% equipment. I'm confident that Steve Peat could get on my bike and win a WC on it. Don't get me wrong, I agree they make nice stuff, and they fill a niche, but generally speaking, my broken down boxxer will get me down the hill just as fast an an Avy that costs as much as some people's race bikes.
Thats true it is mostly rider, but sometimes its a different product that makes you feel even more comfortable/confident on your bike allowing you to push it a bit harder than usual.
Personally I think the Avy differes in quality from other DH forks I have tried. Yes, Avy is not very light, especially not if it is the bigger versions, but the quality is TOP !
I still believe you get a better fork in the Avy than in a Boxxer or Marz, - but I guess it sepends on people、- some likes apples and some oranges.......but I would never like to run anything else than Avy !
I still believe you get a better fork in the Avy than in a Boxxer or Marz, - but I guess it sepends on people、- some likes apples and some oranges.......but I would never like to run anything else than Avy !
JLESLIE said:
The top pros get special team versions of the Boxxers and will not have to run the fork normal people buy if they want a Boxxer. Not saying it will make a difference in the time you get down the hill, but I do not want to sponser the pros by buying some fork so the team has the money to develop the good stuff (for themselves) !
I sold an Avi DHF Ti last year and replaced it with a 8" 888. I found that once the 888 was tuned the difference in performance was negligible. However, the Avi provides WAY more tunability (i.e. every compression and rebound click makes a difference), so it was easier to set-up initially and easier to make incremental changes. With the 888 it takes some more time and experimenting. The reasons I sold the Avi were its weight (much heavier than a 888) and because I didn't like how high the stack height was - its upper crown is pretty thick, much more so than most other forks. After putting on the crown and my stem (no shims) it was just too high for my liking, especially since I run a Hopey, which performs better with a lower stack height.Kanter said:
IMO, you would be really happy with the Avi - performs well, tunable, beautiful craftsmanship, but for me the cost difference between it and the 888 is not worth it.
Maybe if you come from really light race forks the Avy will feel heavy. Having a problem with the height of the fork I am surprised that you go with the 888r, because it does not seem very low. Also, - if you are a racer, you do not think that an USD works better than a normal ? I have ridden the 888r and I agree it is very light, but compared to the Avy I am not impressed with the performance.....but again, - I am ultra biasedWallstreetbiker said:
An avalanche is not that much more expensive than a perfectly tuned 888. I paid about $1000 for my 888, $300 for crowns, $25 springs, $10 for oil, so $1330 total. Plus the labor and shipping for parts so lets say about $1400. When I could have had a Avalanche Ti for about $1500-1800 depending on the set up. That is not that much difference..... Plus Craigs customer service on top of that.
If the price is the same I would go for the Avy for sure !
The crowns are a moot point here, you're not getting custom crowns with the Avy.Kanter said:
Not to mention you can get lowrider crowns for a $125 upcharge when you buy the fork now.
So if you remove the crowns from the equation - or, to be generous, add in the $125 upcharge, your total is $1160. I thought the Avy Ti forks were actually around $1800, but even $1600 is 30% more money, for something that is certainly not a 30% increase in performance.
It's pretty simple: you buy an Avalanche fork because you want a high quality, botique product. Not because the performance increase is worth the hike. There's nothing wrong with that at all if you've got the $$ for it.
Did you just ride a 888, or did you ride a 888 that was tuned properly for you? Also, with the aftermarket crowns the 888 was significantly lower than my Avi (both axel to crown and stack height). And, all else being equal, I agree that inverted forks perform better than standard. But in the comparison between the 888 and the Avi, the cost and weight difference of the Avi just don't offset enough the difference in relative performance.seismic said:Maybe if you come from really light race forks the Avy will feel heavy. Having a problem with the height of the fork I am surprised that you go with the 888r, because it does not seem very low. Also, - if you are a racer, you do not think that an USD works better than a normal ? I have ridden the 888r and I agree it is very light, but compared to the Avy I am not impressed with the performance.....but again, - I am ultra biased
The Avalanche Ti is $1500, about the same price of the 888 Works fork. The dual damper is $1800 and the 43mm leg dual damper is $1900.binary visions said:
To get the 8" 888 to the same ride height as the AVY you need the low rider crowns so in my opinion low rider crowns are not a moot point, they are a must.
I guess NOW you could get a 888 for way cheaper. You could order a 04 from Jenson for $699 and LR crowns from Risse for $199 and springs and oil for $35 and still be under $1000.
Im just saying I have about as much money in my 888 as I would have if I bought a AVY.
I guess NOW you could get a 888 for way cheaper. You could order a 04 from Jenson for $699 and LR crowns from Risse for $199 and springs and oil for $35 and still be under $1000.
Im just saying I have about as much money in my 888 as I would have if I bought a AVY.
i had an 888r it was on my bike that was stolen, my buddy was selling his avy to get a curnutt. I have to say that the avy feels better to me than the 888r, i had my local shop set up the 888r for me ($120 w/ springs)and i adjusted rebound/compresion as needed. Had a moto x shop take care of my avy ($45) and it was perfect, never had to adjust anything.
i am no pro, not even an expert racer, i ride for fun and imho the avy tracks, rolls and rides better.
i am no pro, not even an expert racer, i ride for fun and imho the avy tracks, rolls and rides better.
especially after throwing gobs of money at itBrian HCM#1 said:
in all honesty i would consider a DHF Ti once my Shiver breaks down, so maybe in a few years from now.
So, so far we know the Avy has more tuneability in the external adjusters, which is definitely a good thing. It's heavier and more expensive, which most would agree are bad things.
Performance-wise there have been a lot of pretty vague comments about the Avy being better...but I still don't get it.
A well-tuned 888 (I didn't say "perfect") has great small bump performance, good progression and bottom out resistance. I've gotten mine to that happy place where it feels super plush in the beginning and mid-portions of the travel and ramps up pretty well near the end of travel. About the only thing I can complain about is that the external compression adjuster doesn't do too much, and the fact that I needed to spring for after-market lowrider crowns to get a respectable ride height. Even with the crowns, it's still cheaper. And I get a pretty wide range of adjustment from the external rebound adjuster, more than I need, so I don't see a wider range as much of a benefit.
So what am I missing? Can anyone describe the performance benefits of an Avy in more detail? Benefits that justify more weight and more money?
I hate to say it but it just sounds like brand loyalty driven by a need to have a boutique product that not so many others have. I HOPE you can convince me I'm wrong.
neaky:
Performance-wise there have been a lot of pretty vague comments about the Avy being better...but I still don't get it.
A well-tuned 888 (I didn't say "perfect") has great small bump performance, good progression and bottom out resistance. I've gotten mine to that happy place where it feels super plush in the beginning and mid-portions of the travel and ramps up pretty well near the end of travel. About the only thing I can complain about is that the external compression adjuster doesn't do too much, and the fact that I needed to spring for after-market lowrider crowns to get a respectable ride height. Even with the crowns, it's still cheaper. And I get a pretty wide range of adjustment from the external rebound adjuster, more than I need, so I don't see a wider range as much of a benefit.
So what am I missing? Can anyone describe the performance benefits of an Avy in more detail? Benefits that justify more weight and more money?
I hate to say it but it just sounds like brand loyalty driven by a need to have a boutique product that not so many others have. I HOPE you can convince me I'm wrong.
neaky:
Why do we keep on this boutique-thing when it comes to Avy ??? If it is botique like to by an Avy...then are there botique bikes too ??? And what is that ?? BMWs for costing the sh#t, - Foes Mono , M3 ??? Lots of expensive stuff here costing a lot more than a fair and ok Bullit !!!
Well, - the Avy. I run a MTN-8 with all the hop-up options. I think it is around 4000$ if you buy it from new (I didnt). Is it 2500$ better than a 888r ?? No, - I do not think so, but I think it feels better. For instance, - the compression...I can feel a difference for every click I make...I have not tried that on any other fork. The Bottoming out hydralic system is amazing. Once had a terrible take off from a jump making me landing on the front wheel with my chest crashing into the handlebar. (I am not a smal guy)....the fork did not bottom here !! and that is with a setup taking care of all the small stuff on the course. I am not 100% into how the rebound system is made on this fork, but when you just push down on the fork it is not reacting. It means that the fork does not pack up when going through a lot of small stuff but keeps working fast. Going into the big drops with a high-speed impact, the rebound will be activated and makes the fork feels dead in the second you hit the ground....that feeling is great, because it is like riding with two different setups on the same fork at the same time.
I think this is the best I can do in trying to explain what I like about the Avy. The best advice I can give for a fair comparison is to find a guy having one and try his bike.....maybe you will be stunned by the performance (like me ) or you might think there are no difference and then you do not have to think about it anymore....
Hope this helped a little.
Well, - the Avy. I run a MTN-8 with all the hop-up options. I think it is around 4000$ if you buy it from new (I didnt). Is it 2500$ better than a 888r ?? No, - I do not think so, but I think it feels better. For instance, - the compression...I can feel a difference for every click I make...I have not tried that on any other fork. The Bottoming out hydralic system is amazing. Once had a terrible take off from a jump making me landing on the front wheel with my chest crashing into the handlebar. (I am not a smal guy)....the fork did not bottom here !! and that is with a setup taking care of all the small stuff on the course. I am not 100% into how the rebound system is made on this fork, but when you just push down on the fork it is not reacting. It means that the fork does not pack up when going through a lot of small stuff but keeps working fast. Going into the big drops with a high-speed impact, the rebound will be activated and makes the fork feels dead in the second you hit the ground....that feeling is great, because it is like riding with two different setups on the same fork at the same time.
I think this is the best I can do in trying to explain what I like about the Avy. The best advice I can give for a fair comparison is to find a guy having one and try his bike.....maybe you will be stunned by the performance (like me ) or you might think there are no difference and then you do not have to think about it anymore....
Hope this helped a little.
See, I'm not convinced there's anything wrong with that. It's certainly a higher quality product - there's no question about that. Whether the performance benefits are quantifiable or not, hey, who cares? It is what it is. My Imperial frame is not a significant performance increase over the various $4-500 steel frames on the market, but I supported a good company and got a high quality product, that'll last me a long time, because that's what I wanted.OGRipper said:
What is silly is when people try and convince themselves that the product is a huge amount better than another product, when in reality it's maybe 10% better. Guys, it's OKAY to spend a lot of money on stuff, that's just where your priorities are. Let it go: you don't have to justify your purchase to the world.
Jesus asked if the fork was worth it. The answer depends on where your priorities lie. The performance alone is probably not worth it. If you highly value a higher quality, botique product, then yes, it's worth it.
I HOPE you can convince me I'm wrong.
Whoa, easy there -seismic said:
You don't have to agree but by most definitions a relatively small company producing expensive products for a narrow niche market is a boutique company. I think Avy is a boutique company but I don't really see that as a negative. Apparently you do(?) Maybe I should have clarified: In my opinion there is nothing wrong with wanting parts from boutique companies, to each his (or her) own and good for you if you want to drop the cake on it. And hey I have no problem admitting that I like having parts that few others have, it's fun to have others covet your ride.
What bugs me is how some people feel the need to validate their own decision to spend more money by making blanket statements about how superior the boutique product is, and how they wear their product loyalty like a badge of honor, without being able to articulate the basis for their position.
I think the question here is whether there are identifiable peformance advantages to justify the additional cost and weight. You helped answer that question with anecdotes about performance, so maybe we're on track now?
Edit: Yeah what BV said.
is it better than my 888... yes
why you ask?? it felt better begining to end.
Yes mine is .75lbs heavier, is it worth it? yes
as binary said will you pay a lil more to get an awesome product? YES
I luckily didnt.
An Option on the Avy you dont get anywhere else is the bottom out valve thing a ma giger. Yes every fork has a bottom out circuit to stop each one of us from blowing it up, I bottomed the hell out of my boxxer, and the 888 a few times. NEVER on the avy. That tells me that they got something better going on. is that one thing worth $200? Hell no, but it adds to the overall value.
Lets compare prices MSRP wise
Stock 888r 1149.00
lower crowns 199.00 (going in the middle of the different brands)
New springs 45.00
Service 50.00
total 1444.00
Avy DHF ti 1499.00 (single damper racing only)
Service 0
New springs 0
lower crowns 0
total 1499
SO basically they are almost the same price when all is said and done. Now which one would you prefer??? would you pay $50 for an inverted ti racing fork???? Sh!t i know i would and so is my buddy shawn.
***the above information is based on MSRP and not on discounts or year end close outs please dont jump down my throat bc jenson is blowing 888's out at a super cheap price***
why you ask?? it felt better begining to end.
Yes mine is .75lbs heavier, is it worth it? yes
as binary said will you pay a lil more to get an awesome product? YES
I luckily didnt.
An Option on the Avy you dont get anywhere else is the bottom out valve thing a ma giger. Yes every fork has a bottom out circuit to stop each one of us from blowing it up, I bottomed the hell out of my boxxer, and the 888 a few times. NEVER on the avy. That tells me that they got something better going on. is that one thing worth $200? Hell no, but it adds to the overall value.
Lets compare prices MSRP wise
Stock 888r 1149.00
lower crowns 199.00 (going in the middle of the different brands)
New springs 45.00
Service 50.00
total 1444.00
Avy DHF ti 1499.00 (single damper racing only)
Service 0
New springs 0
lower crowns 0
total 1499
SO basically they are almost the same price when all is said and done. Now which one would you prefer??? would you pay $50 for an inverted ti racing fork???? Sh!t i know i would and so is my buddy shawn.
***the above information is based on MSRP and not on discounts or year end close outs please dont jump down my throat bc jenson is blowing 888's out at a super cheap price***
I owned an Avy dual damper and now i use an 888.
Here's the real differences between the 2.
Yes the Avy compression damper is a lot more sophisticated.It has a number of cool features.
1- It has hydraulic bottoming cones.This means that there is a cone shaped part that fits into a matching cone shaped wedge. When they mate at the end of the travel the 2 parts gradually traps oil at a progressive rate so there isn't a harsh bottoming feel.This does tends to limit about 10mm of travel though since you never really bottom out the fork except once i a blue moon.It works though,no 'clank'at bottom.
2-The compression valve stack can be removed from the bottom of the damper to tune the individual valve washers.Craig doesn't want people messing with it though.
3-Everything is hard annodised causing very little wear and little oil breakdown.
The 888's damper is a little wierd in that there is almost no damping for the first bit of travel unless you have the Compression Sleeve.If you do have it though,you get 3 position low and 20 click high speed seperate adjustments and/or position sensitive adjustment depending on how you look at it.
Despite all those things i have been able to get my 888 to work 90% as good in terms of compression damping,and i simply need a light fork.I'm talking7.25 lbs vs 9.75. 2.5lbs means hopping over holes indstead of running into everything.Also the 888 has better steering precision due to the fork brace.No twisting,and flexing in deep ruts.
For the difference in price the avy is well worth it due to the best coatings,etc in the fork.For larger riders it is great since the weight is less of a problem.
For me the 888 is the way.
Krispy
Here's the real differences between the 2.
Yes the Avy compression damper is a lot more sophisticated.It has a number of cool features.
1- It has hydraulic bottoming cones.This means that there is a cone shaped part that fits into a matching cone shaped wedge. When they mate at the end of the travel the 2 parts gradually traps oil at a progressive rate so there isn't a harsh bottoming feel.This does tends to limit about 10mm of travel though since you never really bottom out the fork except once i a blue moon.It works though,no 'clank'at bottom.
2-The compression valve stack can be removed from the bottom of the damper to tune the individual valve washers.Craig doesn't want people messing with it though.
3-Everything is hard annodised causing very little wear and little oil breakdown.
The 888's damper is a little wierd in that there is almost no damping for the first bit of travel unless you have the Compression Sleeve.If you do have it though,you get 3 position low and 20 click high speed seperate adjustments and/or position sensitive adjustment depending on how you look at it.
Despite all those things i have been able to get my 888 to work 90% as good in terms of compression damping,and i simply need a light fork.I'm talking7.25 lbs vs 9.75. 2.5lbs means hopping over holes indstead of running into everything.Also the 888 has better steering precision due to the fork brace.No twisting,and flexing in deep ruts.
For the difference in price the avy is well worth it due to the best coatings,etc in the fork.For larger riders it is great since the weight is less of a problem.
For me the 888 is the way.
Krispy
I wonder if this comparison should be between the 888 and the $1800 dual damper Avy?not the $1500 single damper one?
My weight and damping comparison was against the dual damper one.
The single damper one is only useable by lighter riders and a few peeps haven't been able to get the damping to work well enough.
My weight and damping comparison was against the dual damper one.
The single damper one is only useable by lighter riders and a few peeps haven't been able to get the damping to work well enough.
um, weird. but i agree completely with Krispy. i had the DHF-8 and then had a DHF-8 Ti the Ti was toooo soft for my tastes. was also too used to the other, but went ahead and tried the 888. had it vavled and such and have like all the same things to say about the 888 as Krispy did.
cool
Steve
cool
Steve
the single was too soft for me, as i stated before. and i was albe to (clank) bottom it out. i could have sent it back and re-valved. but i always like to get new things anyway. had to jump on the bandwagon of 888.leprechaun said:
heh
Sweet, DHS.
Sometimes i'm hiding in the garage and i look at my KX and think how pimp my bike would look with an Avy..
So if ya got the cash then i'm sure you won't be dissapointed! It's not like you just dropped $1800 on some SPV dorkrado or something!!!
peace out
Sometimes i'm hiding in the garage and i look at my KX and think how pimp my bike would look with an Avy..
So if ya got the cash then i'm sure you won't be dissapointed! It's not like you just dropped $1800 on some SPV dorkrado or something!!!
peace out