[trailhacker]

The pros ride what they get paid to ride. Paid to ride... do you understand that concept? Some lucky people who are really good at riding (not at making snide remarks on internet forums) are given parts and/or paid. Avalanche is not a giant company that can pay to have a bunch of riders race their stuff.

As a top pro, say your at a national or worse yet a world cup and have something go wrong with your fork.Would you rather be riding an Avy with no one there to service it, or would you rather be on a big3 and get the thing fixed right, right now?

 

[zedro]

What bugs me is how some people feel the need to validate their own decision to spend more money by making blanket statements about how superior the boutique product is, and how they wear their product loyalty like a badge of honor, without being able to articulate the basis for their position.

thats what bugs me when peeps (namely noobs or noobish) ask for advice and may not recongnize the relativity of price/performance, and may end up dropping alot of cash that could go somewhere better. Like when someone is having a problem bleeding their brakes, and the only advice you get from senior-monkeys is to drop coin on the most expensive brake system out there instead to 'solve' their problem. It's very misleading and reminds me of why i couldn't spend more than 5 minutes browsing the Pinkbike forums....

 

[nickaziz]

I think the advantage to having a "big 3" fork is that you could swap it out for an identical fork really easily if it broke. As for actually "repairing" or getting parts, I think avalanche would almost be a better option because they have everything you could need in house.

 

[DHS]

now with all this talk, i want a new one....
anyone have a DHF-8 they want to trade me for my 888?
though i do have 2 888. and they arn't valved the same so it kind of sucks,
so anyone out there have 2 DHF-8s they want to trade for 2 888s?
heh
Steve

 

[trailhacker]

..... you do not think that an USD works better than a normal ? .....

This argument between which is better has been played to death?
Differnet strokes for different folks, but the argument always seemed to come down to this:
USD work better in some types of terrain.
I think they argument was that they worked better at higher speeds. I can't remember.
I will say this, where as I have never ridden and Avy, I have ridden a WB (UD 150, UD180), Heinousbrink, Shiver and a Dorado. With the exception of the HB they all were very "noodly". The HB had very differnt problems! I am a big guy (#210-240 depending) so that might have had more to do with it, but I would never consider a USD again.
My $.02.

 

[DHS]

This argument between which is better has been played to death?
Differnet strokes for different folks, but the argument always seemed to come down to this:
USD work better in some types of terrain.
I think they argument was that they worked better at higher speeds. I can't remember.
I will say this, where as I have never ridden and Avy, I have ridden a WB (UD 150, UD180), Heinousbrink, Shiver and a Dorado. With the exception of the HB they all were very "noodly". The HB had very differnt problems! I am a big guy (#210-240 depending) so that might have had more to do with it, but I would never consider a USD again.
My $.02.

no there i have to fight you on, if you went to the bigger thickness of the stanchion legs, of the DHF-8 fork or even the MTN. you would not have a flex problem. if you do, what the hell are you riding....
(yea i know, my english bad)

 

[trailhacker]

....actually "repairing" or getting parts, I think avalanche would almost be a better option because they have everything you could need in house.

It's race morning and on your last prctice run you stack a tree and do major damage to your fork. Its great that Avy has parts in house, but that doesn't help me right now. With the big3, you go to their tent and they set you up, because after all, your a big time pro????

I raced Boxxers from '00 until '03 then switched to a Super-T. On the bike I rode but didn't race I rode a Monster-T. Racing is about going fast so the Boxxer was good for that. It bottomed a few times every run which is proper set-up. The monster was ridden when we were just out riding and is generally more slow speed, techy stuff. It never bottomed.
Maybe the Avy would be good for this sort of riding?

 

[trailhacker]

... if you do, what the hell are you riding....
(yea i know, my english bad)

I raced a Boxxer last year because I got a killer price on it. I ride a 888r (I think, the cheaper one) when we go riding. The shop I bought it from gave me heavy springs for free and when they installed them I think they did something with the oil?
I don't know, I really don't pay that close of attention. People always tell me how messed up my set up is then offer to "adjust" it. I take another run and they ask how much better it feels. I just shrug my shoulders because I really didn't notice anything different. Then someone else tells me how messed up it is and they offer to "adjust" it even thought dude #1 has already "dialed it in". Same reaction from me. I'm really just not that finicky.
When I had the HB it was as stiff as any other fork I've ridden except maybe the Monster. Of course it locked solid with any sort of contact with dirt of mud (welcome to the PNW?). What a POS IMO.
Maybe the Avy would be stiff like the HB because of the OS stanchions? But as far as adjustments, I set up my bike once and then run it until something obviously needs to be tweaked. That is how I like it.
The only difference I noticed when running USD was how much the wheel wandered in the rocks or ruts?
My theory is I will run what ever I get the best price on to an extant. I won't ride a Pacific, but I raced a GT DHi last year over my M1 because I got a killer price on it. Same with the Boxxer. As for this (next?) year we'll see what has the best price.

 

[DHS]

cool

 

[Zutroy]

The pros ride what they get paid to ride. Paid to ride... do you understand that concept? Some lucky people who are really good at riding (not at making snide remarks on internet forums) are given parts and/or paid. Avalanche is not a giant company that can pay to have a bunch of riders race their stuff.

Ummmmmmm I don't know what bike racing world your in, but very few pros in the US are getting PAID to ride anything. That went away years ago, most guys are racing outta pocket with pro deals like the rest of us.

 

[RhinofromWA]

you will not get an unbiased response here I think. Certain subject you just wont... ie. Avalanche, Evil/E13, Mavic....just depends. I have ridden an avy fork and I couldn't notice any difference from my custom tuned Shiver...but that's just me....some people will look for a way to justify such an expensive purchase but that's JMO....D

Haha True.
Edit: This is a true story...but after reading it over it sounded like I was beign sarcastic....

Last weekend I heard a rider say he was looking for a better fork...one that he could just plow through things with.

Funny thing is that the bike was running an Avy Fork.....the lighter Ti spring one. Well, I thought it was funny.

I am sure the Avy and the Light weight Avy Ti forks aren't comparable.....

RhinofromWA
Boxxers forks and E13 guides RULZ!

 

[seismic]

Whoa, easy there -

You don't have to agree but by most definitions a relatively small company producing expensive products for a narrow niche market is a boutique company. I think Avy is a boutique company but I don't really see that as a negative. Apparently you do(?) Maybe I should have clarified: In my opinion there is nothing wrong with wanting parts from boutique companies, to each his (or her) own and good for you if you want to drop the cake on it. And hey I have no problem admitting that I like having parts that few others have, it's fun to have others covet your ride.

What bugs me is how some people feel the need to validate their own decision to spend more money by making blanket statements about how superior the boutique product is, and how they wear their product loyalty like a badge of honor, without being able to articulate the basis for their position.

I think the question here is whether there are identifiable peformance advantages to justify the additional cost and weight. You helped answer that question with anecdotes about performance, so maybe we're on track now?

Edit: Yeah what BV said.

Hmmm,- maybe an over reaction from my side ......we are on track

 

[seismic]

This argument between which is better has been played to death?
Differnet strokes for different folks, but the argument always seemed to come down to this:
USD work better in some types of terrain.
I think they argument was that they worked better at higher speeds. I can't remember.
I will say this, where as I have never ridden and Avy, I have ridden a WB (UD 150, UD180), Heinousbrink, Shiver and a Dorado. With the exception of the HB they all were very "noodly". The HB had very differnt problems! I am a big guy (#210-240 depending) so that might have had more to do with it, but I would never consider a USD again.
My $.02.

If you are LOADED,- go and try a MTN-8....big n heavy, but not soft !

 

[seismic]

Haha True.
Edit: This is a true story...but after reading it over it sounded like I was beign sarcastic....

Last weekend I heard a rider say he was looking for a better fork...one that he could just plow through things with.

Funny thing is that the bike was running an Avy Fork.....the lighter Ti spring one. Well, I thought it was funny.

I am sure the Avy and the Light weight Avy Ti forks aren't comparable.....

RhinofromWA
Boxxers forks and E13 guides RULZ!

I feel like repeating myself, but if the guy had an MTN-8 he could plow through anything. IF he is riding the lightest Ti version and want a big and heavy Monster fork, - why the f#ck did he buy an ultra race fork in the first place Seems like having a Boxxer WC and saying you are disapointed because it does not ride like a Super Monster.....

 

[zedro]

I feel like repeating myself, but if the guy had an MTN-8 he could plow through anything. IF he is riding the lightest Ti version and want a big and heavy Monster fork, - why the f#ck did he buy an ultra race fork in the first place Seems like having a Boxxer WC and saying you are disapointed because it does not ride like a Super Monster.....

'plow through anything' is one of those meaningless descriptions like 'plush'....i dont see why a lighter fork couldn't plow through stuff just as well as a heavier one.

 

[seismic]

'plow through anything' is one of those meaningless descriptions like 'plush'....i dont see why a lighter fork couldn't plow through stuff just as well as a heavier one.

Maybe the light fork is not built to "plow through anything!....race forks are normally built for racing, right ?? And as far as I know they are often weaker due to a lighter construction and therefore should not be treatet like a Monster.....but maybe that is just me....

 

[kidwoo]

'plow through anything' is one of those meaningless descriptions like 'plush'....i dont see why a lighter fork couldn't plow through stuff just as well as a heavier one.

No way man, plush is

1) A really lame production quality video that people riding DH in the early 90s will try to convince you is worth watching.

2) The feeling I get from my vanilla dh rear shock......like my ass is slowly sinking into a bath of warm oil, protected and immune to outside distractions like bumps, rocks, dropoffs and republicans who love freedom, just not yours. There's a comparable analogy somewhere for the front of the bike, but then I wouldn't be able to say "ass".

 

[Brian HCM#1]

A well-tuned 888 (I didn't say "perfect") has great small bump performance, good progression and bottom out resistance.

Really? I couldn't get mine to feel good at on on small bumps, large ones were fine. I know a few others will agree with that.

 

[zedro]

so in that case, whats a plush fork with good plowability? needs to be flickable, lively and popable...

 

[OGRipper]

Really? I couldn't get mine to feel good at on on small bumps, large ones were fine. I know a few others will agree with that.

Out of the box stock the small bump performance of my 888 was great, and it remains that way. I had problems with it blowing through too much travel, bottoming, and diving too much, which are the complaints I hear most often. After messing with the oil level (to address the bottoming) and adding the low speed compression sleeve (to address the diving and add a bit of progressiveness), I still have great small bump peformance and the other issues are resolved. There is very little compression damping in the first part of the stroke and basically no stiction, so it's very PLUSH (haha, couldn't resist) for me in the small bumps, regardless of speed.

I dunno, kinda strange, not sure what to tell ya... Maybe we're talking about two different things? Or maybe you needed a softer spring? Lots of people were switching to heavier springs before spending time on the oil level. Wouldn't heavier springs sacrifice small bump compliance without doing much to address the oil level issues?

Most of the people I know with 888s have had to work on the same issues as me but not one has ever said anything negative about that trademark bomber cushiness in the small stuff.

PS I'm 195 to 200 lbs.

 

[OGRipper]

so in that case, whats a plush fork with good plowability? needs to be flickable, lively and popable...

My MSR Spork.

 

[zedro]

i tested a 888....it had no compliance at all, but i'm smart enough to realize it wasent tuned properly. So despite trying one, i can't attest to its true performance. I wonder if others exhibit such wisdom?

 

[zedro]

My MSR Spork.

i like the Marzocchi 4ork, the only 4 legged fork....

 

[OGRipper]

i like the Marzocchi 4ork, the only 4 legged fork....

Hahaha, that would plow through anything with supreme plushnicity!!!

Does it come with quad discs??

 

[zedro]

Does it come with quad discs??

yes, but it requires a special Hope half-caliper which will never be made.

 

[James | Go-Ride]

i like the Marzocchi 4ork, the only 4 legged fork....

Shouldn't the axle be between the two sets of stanchions? That's a lot of offset.

 

[zedro]

Shouldn't the axle be between the two sets of stanchions? That's a lot of offset.

no, because only two of the legs handle rebound damping

 

[ChrisRobin]

no, because only two of the legs handle rebound damping...

...while the other legs hold the french vanilla cappuccino

 

[Toshi]

Shouldn't the axle be between the two sets of stanchions? That's a lot of offset.

i think the idea is to run the axle in the, uh, rear fork of that set of forks. yess

 

[OGRipper]

Shouldn't the axle be between the two sets of stanchions? That's a lot of offset.

Oh come on James can't you see where the axle is? Yeesh.

Zedro would not have spent all that time on this very serious design without considering offset... Yeesh.

 

[seismic]

Hmmmm, waste of time.....

 

[Rik]

so in that case, whats a plush fork with good plowability? needs to be flickable, lively and popable...

Don't forget it has to ride lighter than it is.
This thread scares me, I can't take things serious... all I want to know is, do they make an Avalanche fork for freeride? If so, can I get custom anodised colours?

Oh, I might as well add, if you're hard bottoming a Marzocchi fork, it wasn't set up properly. hint: oil level.

 

[zedro]

...while the other legs hold the french vanilla cappuccino

dont be stupid, it was designed around mocka and columbian blends only...sheesh

 

[thaflyinfatman]

haha I love this thread. All of the well-known/commonly used DH forks can be set up to work damn well. Yes Jm_, even Boxxers.

 

[OGRipper]

All of the well-known/commonly used DH forks can be set up to work damn well.

Maybe but not many can make a decent capuccino.

 

[Tarpon]

Don't forget it has to ride lighter than it is.
This thread scares me, I can't take things serious... all I want to know is, do they make an Avalanche fork for freeride? If so, can I get custom anodised colours?

Oh, I might as well add, if you're hard bottoming a Marzocchi fork, it wasn't set up properly. hint: oil level.

Yes, Avalanche makes FR forks. They have several versions in the DHF series: the Ti version, the dual-damper version, and the new heavy duty version. It all depends on what your riding style is.

As far as custom colors? Probably not. Maybe you could talk Craig into selling you a pair of raw sliders though and have them anodized yourself.

 

[zedro]

Yes, Avalanche makes FR forks. They have several versions in the DHF series: the Ti version, the dual-damper version, and the new heavy duty version. It all depends on what your riding style is.

As far as custom colors? Probably not. Maybe you could talk Craig into selling you a pair of raw sliders though and have them anodized yourself.

ever heard of sarcasm?

 

[kidwoo]

ever heard of sarcasm?

I haven't. What is it exactly?

 

[Rik]

Yes, Avalanche makes FR forks. They have several versions in the DHF series

But how can it be a FR fork when there's DH in the name? Unless it means "dangerous hucking FREERIDE"

 

[Tarpon]

ever heard of sarcasm?

Just the facts Zedro, just the facts.

PS - My sarcasm detector is set for Rootbeer or Scuba yellow triggers.