[dexterq20]

When I worked in a shop (from 2002 till 2009) I used to think custom handbuilt was the only option when it came to high-end wheels. Every wheelset I have ever owned has been handbuilt (by me). But now with so many solid pre-built options coming from Mavic, Easton, Industry 9, Crank Bros, DT Swiss, etc, is there really a place for custom handbuilt wheels in today's mountain bike market? I used to be afraid of proprietary spoke systems, but if I had to go get new wheels tomorrow, I would absolutely buy something pre-built. It would be cheaper, it would save time, and it would probably be just as good as something I laced up myself.

Whatcha think?

 

[lovebunny]

seeing all the new stuff on the market i tend to agree. i was going to build some wheels myself but im really liking the look of the easton havens

 

[kidwoo]

There's a mental leap between what you know and new approaches (ie crank bros 2 spoke or whatever they hell they are wheel systems). I haven't seen anything that makes me question the way I build DH wheels. The xc stuff however........I've watched those crank bros wheels survive some amazing feats.......as in someone royally fvcking up something that in no way falls in to 'trail riding'.

I've tried a few generations of crossmax wheels and watched some of the crank bros dh wheels, and for that application, no......I personally don't feel like there are prebuilt systems that work better than the wheels I build for DOWNHILL. I'd be all over some of the lighter duty setups though.

 

[toodles]

Some of the new factory wheels are bloody impressive, but I'm still not keen on those wheels that require proprietry spokes, hubs and nipples. If you travel with your bike much, finding odd-sized parts can be a pain and carrying a spare of everything usually blows out your packing list and weight allowance pretty quickly.

Handbuilt traditional wheels for me at least until the other stuff gets more popular.

 

[norbar]

They pre build wheels are cheaper? Most of the start at 1k FFS. That gives me a 2 sets of 823s on hopes. 3 If Im clever. Not to mention that it takes noticably longer and its harder to get parts for prebuild wheels. For longer trips Im already carrying too much spare crap. Not to mention for now none of the DH dedicated pre build wheels resonate with me. Not to mention some of them being faulty (old easton, supposedly cb)

 

[FCLinder]

Just another option for custom pre-built wheels is www.loadedusa.com. I hear they are super strong and the color combos are cool too. Cost is lower than the High End Brand names as well.

Cecil

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

I dont think they should be but it seems like the trend...I have a set of i9's and love them but compatibility and ease of getting parts seems to be the sticking point.

I would almost always side on having a hand built set of wheels over a prebuilt wheel...I know they are strong but it's nice to know when you are on that trip you spent a couple grand on you can walk into any shop and get a spoke.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

pretty funny you guys above me wrote almost the same thing i didnt read it until i posted

 

[norbar]

Just another option for custom pre-built wheels is www.loadedusa.com. I hear they are super strong and the color combos are cool too. Cost is lower than the High End Brand names as well.

Cecil

Im having a strange feel Ive seen their collection in some other companies offers. Catalog?

 

[ridefast]

I built 20 something sets last year for customers of all dirt preferences.

While I love riding my own wheels, I still lust after factory pre-builts on a frequent basis.

 

[Dogboy]

I'm happy to build my own DH wheels because I feel like I can match or beat what's on offer out there in pre-built wheels. On my trail bike though I feel like there are some kick-ass pre-built wheels available.

 

[slowitdown]

I have yet to see a "factory wheelset" (bought pre-built by some other clown somewhere) that matched a wheelset I spec myself. No match on price, no match on weight. I assume the durability is lacking as well.

Most "factory wheelsets" cost about 30% more than when I spec the stuff myself.

I can spend that 30% on a lot of things.

I don't have ProDeals or BroDeals. Maybe some of y'all do.

 

[Metal Dude]

If you want the best name in custom built wheels.... kovachiwheels.com
Back in the day he built for all the top Pros. Lopes, Cully, Bootes, etc. etc.
He builds wheels for everyone in BMX nowadays but, is making a comeback to the MTB scene. Look him up at the U.S. Open, some Gravity East races and the National Champs race.

 

[IH8Rice]

until Hadley builds a complete wheelset, then yes, custom wheelsets are still very viable. every wheelset ive had for the past 12 years has been

 

[marshalolson]

When I worked in a shop (from 2002 till 2009) I used to think custom handbuilt was the only option when it came to high-end wheels. Every wheelset I have ever owned has been handbuilt (by me). But now with so many solid pre-built options coming from Mavic, Easton, Industry 9, Crank Bros, DT Swiss, etc, is there really a place for custom handbuilt wheels in today's mountain bike market? I used to be afraid of proprietary spoke systems, but if I had to go get new wheels tomorrow, I would absolutely buy something pre-built. It would be cheaper, it would save time, and it would probably be just as good as something I laced up myself.

Whatcha think?

just curious, but what changed for you in the last few years? none of those wheels listed are new really at all...

the deemax/crossmax line is over 10 years old, and basically the same other than now having 4 pawl option, the easton line is ~4 years old, the I9's are at least 5 years old (?), crank bros are 3-4 years old, and dt swiss as been offering pre-built wheels for maybe 5 years too. and the dt swiss is just a normal wheel, but laced up by them.

for me, all i want is a hope or DT hub, dt spoke, and a mavic or dt rim. and certainly i am lazy... i would way rather have DT build the wheel than spend a few hours doing it myself! i'd rather be out riding!

 

[TheMontashu]

When I worked in a shop (from 2002 till 2009) I used to think custom handbuilt was the only option when it came to high-end wheels. Every wheelset I have ever owned has been handbuilt (by me). But now with so many solid pre-built options coming from Mavic, Easton, Industry 9, Crank Bros, DT Swiss, etc, is there really a place for custom handbuilt wheels in today's mountain bike market? I used to be afraid of proprietary spoke systems, but if I had to go get new wheels tomorrow, I would absolutely buy something pre-built. It would be cheaper, it would save time, and it would probably be just as good as something I laced up myself.

Whatcha think?

I worked at a stupid high end shop last year, hand-built road wheels are WAYYY dead. But I was still building wheels for about half the mountain bikes, as long as they aren't I nines, mavics or crank Bros. I was even building DT wheels with the same hub and rim as the complete wheels.

 

[marshalolson]

yeah, only custom road wheels i have laced up lately were all for goofy track stuff.

why would you pay the same for a 105/open pro when you could get some ea70s that are lighter and stiffer for $100 less?

 

[-BB-]

I learned my lesson with the Rolf Dolomite wheelset I bought years ago. Paired spokes, proprietary rims etc. Yes, they were stupid light, but tentioning them was a chore and when I needed a replacement rim, foggedaboudit!!

Now I will only buy "standard" items. Plus, I've yet to see a wheelset with Hadleys and/or kings and now that I have some Hadleys there is no need to EVER get a wheelset. Just replace the rims as needed.

 

[SuspectDevice]

yeah, only custom road wheels i have laced up lately were all for goofy track stuff.

why would you pay the same for a 105/open pro when you could get some ea70s that are lighter and stiffer for $100 less?

Because many people, informed by a rational cost benefit analysis and experience value the longevity, serviceability, cup and cone bearings and aesthetics of a "proper" wheelset.

There are also a lot of consumers who don't like the planned-obsolescence and intentional shortcomings designed into the pre-built wheel systems to encourage a consumer to buy a more expensive model.

 

[leprechaun]

Being the head wheel builder at Go-Ride, i can't see prebuilt DH wheels taking hold any time soon. I have guys with 5 year old Hadley hubs that have had 10+ rims laced to them. Rim preferance changes, rims last 3 days for a lot of pros, it just doesn't make sense. If Mavic for example made a badass hub that was compatable with standard rims and the wheelset was less than $800 then yeah. But sending a $1100 3 month old set of Deemax's back to Mavic for 3 weeks since they're banged up is dumb.

Ever rebuilt a 3 year old I9 wheel with a new rim? At least they're compatable with new rims but by then many of the spokes are corroded and won't come out of the hub.

When Hope wheels are less than $700 and Kings are $800 with whatever rims you want I won't be recomending any prebuilt high end DH wheels.

The beauty of a GOOD prebuilt wheel is the interface of the nipple. Standard nips can't take high tension resulting in more spokes. If a wheel can use a different nipple then a lighter, stiffer wheel can be achieved.

I did just get a set of Havens for my trail bike to try out and they're pretty cool. The nips look standard but they thread into the rim with a larger thread. The rim has a rivot kind of like a watter bottle cage. A spoke can be repaired without removing the tire, cass, or rotor.

Enve carbon is super cool. The Pillar nipple can be alloy and stand 150kg easily. This alows for a light nipple and a strong interfaace, with no stripped nips. But they're internal. Want to true the wheel? Take off the tire, and the tape. That's fine for trail bikes but not DH for the average guy.

All of this new stuff, once again is awesome for road and trail, but it just doesn't stack up for the average Downhiller that thrashes his bike in the mud, shuttles, rocks etc that a trail wheel probably won't see.

Tubeless wheels are benefiting more from the prebuilt wheels, but that still is the minority for DHers.

I'd like to be proven wrong though, show me a light affordable serviceable wheel because i'm a weight weenie.

 

[norbar]

Being the head wheel builder at Go-Ride, i can't see prebuilt DH wheels taking hold any time soon. I have guys with 5 year old Hadley hubs that have had 10+ rims laced to them. Rim preferance changes, rims last 3 days for a lot of pros, it just doesn't make sense. If Mavic for example made a badass hub that was compatable with standard rims and the wheelset was less than $800 then yeah. But sending a $1100 3 month old set of Deemax's back to Mavic for 3 weeks since they're banged up is dumb.

Ever rebuilt a 3 year old I9 wheel with a new rim? At least they're compatable with new rims but by then many of the spokes are corroded and won't come out of the hub.

When Hope wheels are less than $700 and Kings are $800 with whatever rims you want I won't be recomending any prebuilt high end DH wheels.

The beauty of a GOOD prebuilt wheel is the interface of the nipple. Standard nips can't take high tension resulting in more spokes. If a wheel can use a different nipple then a lighter, stiffer wheel can be achieved.

I did just get a set of Havens for my trail bike to try out and they're pretty cool. The nips look standard but they thread into the rim with a larger thread. The rim has a rivot kind of like a watter bottle cage. A spoke can be repaired without removing the tire, cass, or rotor.

Enve carbon is super cool. The Pillar nipple can be alloy and stand 150kg easily. This alows for a light nipple and a strong interfaace, with no stripped nips. But they're internal. Want to true the wheel? Take off the tire, and the tape. That's fine for trail bikes but not DH for the average guy.

All of this new stuff, once again is awesome for road and trail, but it just doesn't stack up for the average Downhiller that thrashes his bike in the mud, shuttles, rocks etc that a trail wheel probably won't see.

Tubeless wheels are benefiting more from the prebuilt wheels, but that still is the minority for DHers.

I'd like to be proven wrong though, show me a light affordable serviceable wheel because i'm a weight weenie.

Damn. Hope wheels are expensive in the US. I managed to build a hope rear wheel for 270$ though I've found a deal on a pair of 823 some guy didn't want on his bike.

As for banger mavic hubs. Don't know about deemax but deetrax acepts or at least accepted regular spokes and my front deetrax hub is lighter than hope. No issues with it after a year of riding on 823s and revolutions.

Though yeah I agree - I waited 2 months for my 04 deemax to have its axle replaced. Never again.

 

[syadasti]

It would be great if a group of wheel parts companies came up with an open standard for stronger/lighter wheel parts for the mid to high-end market as has happened with other bike parts but I guess the chances for that are slim since the prebuilt proprietary is so profitable.

 

[SuspectDevice]

It would be great if a group of wheel parts companies came up with an open standard for stronger/lighter wheel parts for the mid to high-end market as has happened with other bike parts but I guess the chances for that are slim since the prebuilt proprietary is so profitable.

Pillar Nipples. Pretty much every company that makes carbon rims use them. That makes it a defacto standard. Nothing needs to change about modern hubs and spokes- it's all in the rims at this point.

 

[demo 9]

For what this is worth, i have been riding i9 wheels, I have a set thats on its 4th year (rear rim was replaced on 1st season) I havent had to give it any maintenance besides some love in the hub. The costs will be higher on fancy factory wheels, but i do think your getting equal or better quality, that said, you are paying for it.

I would be very curios to see somebody take a set of i9 fancy spoke wheels, and a set of i9 classic wheels, and beat on them to see which lasts longer. My guess would be that both will easily least 5-6 years (not rims)

 

[norbar]

For what this is worth, i have been riding i9 wheels, I have a set thats on its 4th year (rear rim was replaced on 1st season) I havent had to give it any maintenance besides some love in the hub. The costs will be higher on fancy factory wheels, but i do think your getting equal or better quality, that said, you are paying for it.

I would be very curios to see somebody take a set of i9 fancy spoke wheels, and a set of i9 classic wheels, and beat on them to see which lasts longer. My guess would be that both will easily least 5-6 years (not rims)

Higher quality in what? My complete wheelset is under 2100g on 823s. I could swap the hope for hadley and be probably around deemax weight and still be under 650$. I love the i9 look but what do they have a proper wheel build on a hadley hub doesnt?

 

[4xBoy]

Higher quality in what? My complete wheelset is under 2100g on 823s. I could swap the hope for hadley and be probably around deemax weight and still be under 650$. I love the i9 look but what do they have a proper wheel build on a hadley hub doesnt?

48 point more engagement.


I have had the prebuilt and leprechaun has built me a few wheels, The prebuilt stuff just doesn't have the options that I want in a set of wheels. After using King Hadley I-9 hubs, I don't want to go back to DT or Shimano engagement.

I do like the cup and cone of the High end Shimano stuff though.

 

[norbar]

48 point more engagement.


I have had the prebuilt and leprechaun has built me a few wheels, The prebuilt stuff just doesn't have the options that I want in a set of wheels. After using King Hadley I-9 hubs, I don't want to go back to DT or Shimano engagement.

I do like the cup and cone of the High end Shimano stuff though.

I9 over hadley? Do you really feel that extra 48pts over 72 that hadley offers?

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

It would be great if a group of wheel parts companies came up with an open standard for stronger/lighter wheel parts for the mid to high-end market as has happened with other bike parts but I guess the chances for that are slim since the prebuilt proprietary is so profitable.

yeah similar to what apple has done with the iPod...

 

[demo 9]

I9 over hadley? Do you really feel that extra 48pts over 72 that hadley offers?

truthfully, i doubt it, but, that doesnt not make it better. Is a camry fast enough for a soccer mom, yes, so is a lambo, but the lambo is a better car. (for arguments sake) They are also aluminum and very strong. (not this again!) I am not saying its for everybody, nor am i saying you will loose every race in cat 3 if you run hadleys. IMO i think that the i9 wheels are the best, i do think you pay for it though, maybe not the best bargain, but hey, we pay to play!

 

[norbar]

truthfully, i doubt it, but, that doesnt not make it better. Is a camry fast enough for a soccer mom, yes, so is a lambo, but the lambo is a better car. (for arguments sake) They are also aluminum and very strong. (not this again!) I am not saying its for everybody, nor am i saying you will loose every race in cat 3 if you run hadleys. IMO i think that the i9 wheels are the best, i do think you pay for it though, maybe not the best bargain, but hey, we pay to play!

The comparison is silly. You can easily point out the advantages the lambo has over a camry. A lambo over a camry would be i9 over a formula or novatec hub.
That's why I ask. What are the reasons the I9 is the best? Prop spokes? What's the weight of them laced on 823 as I assume it's the wheelset you run?

Not that I don't want a i9 hub. They rock. The spokes kill me though.

 

[4xBoy]

I9 over hadley? Do you really feel that extra 48pts over 72 that hadley offers?

If only they still made the 108 I would be all over Hadley.


Actually, I have Two Hadley wheels and one I-9 and I doubt I would buy another I-9 again, same for the King.

And I was joking about the 48 point part, pretty hard to tell the difference at that level anyways, and I doubt any situation I have ever been in that that would make any difference.

 

[Jeremy R]

I love the i9 look but what do they have a proper wheel build on a hadley hub doesnt?

Besides the instant engagement of the I9's, I think one of the main benefits of them is that you can use a lighter than normal rim and still have a stiff wheel that tracks great. You can get standard wheels as light as I9 wheels, but it will not be as solid feeling. This is actually probaly more true in the trail/xc market as opposed to DH. I had the same trail rims on two sets of wheels, one I9 and one regular, and you could easily feel the difference especially on a lighter rim such as the Stans Arch.

 

[demo 9]

Norbar, the weight on the normal wheels is 2150 grams (i9 dh wheels with an i9 rim)

Just now i weighed my set of i9823s this is what i got (dont take this as an official weight)

Rear was 5.69 pounds with a 2.5 DHR mounted tubeless, no cassette or rotor, dirty.
Front was 5.87 pounds with a 2.5 High roller mounted tubeless, no rotor, dirty.

 

[norbar]

Norbar, the weight on the normal wheels is 2150 grams (i9 dh wheels with an i9 rim)

Just now i weighed my set of i9823s this is what i got (dont take this as an official weight)

Rear was 5.69 pounds with a 2.5 DHR mounted tubeless, no cassette or rotor, dirty.
Front was 5.87 pounds with a 2.5 High roller mounted tubeless, no rotor, dirty.

So they are not lighter than a hope + revolutions + deetrax + 823s. My friend who is one of the best wheelbuilders around here claims with a proper build (forgot what was the name he used for it) the revos will be as stiff as normal spokes. Not to mention you always have the option of X rays of superspoke. So they are not lighter and only have a slight engagement advantage.


Though for trail market I understand the extra stiffness may be a benefit.

 

[demo 9]

Though for trail market I understand the extra stiffness may be a benefit.

call me crazy, isnt this what we need the most? as we slam into G outs and berms?

 

[norbar]

call me crazy, isnt this what we need the most? as we slam into G outs and berms?

I didn't mean it's not a benefit in dh but going after Jeremy - that it's only noticable with lighter rims like archs. I doubt you would feel it on 823 that are stiff like a pornstar.

 

[roel_koel]

I'd say it really comes down to the bike shops?

for many bike shops who are super busy with limited workshop time slots, pre-built wheels make ALOT of sense - easy to sell with good margins, and no wheel building required!

many small shops are trying to compete on price with CRC, Wiggle, Merlin, Superstar, etc. and are either not making any profit on building wheels, or actually building wheels is a "loss leader" once you do the sums properly!


however, with the pre-built factory wheels the hassle comes later, as the hubs degenerate...and spokes seize....rims get bent///replacement parts not easy to source or affordable

replacement parts for proprietary pre-built wheels are not always forthcoming in a timely manner = irritated customers


personally?

I prefer to run a custom built wheelset (which I build myself, as a pro mechanic and wheel builder its not hard...) Stans ZTR Flow on Hope Pro II hubs with DT Swiss Competition spokes and DT swiss brass nipples

running Stans No-Tubes tubeless conversion = light enough for high performance, but with the peace of mind if I mangle the rear wheel in a rear derailleur / wooden stick incident I can easily replace the spoke using stock from any bike shop...


compared to the grief some of the customer of my previous bike shop suffered with Mavic / Roval pre-built wheelsets.....

 

[kidwoo]

Have you guys with I9s ever figured out how to keep them fancy spokes tight?

I've never ridden a bike with i9s that didn't loosen up on me.....old or new sets. I like the idea and I think they work, but I'm kind of used to not retensioning my wheels after lterally every single ride.

 

[IH8Rice]

does any other mfg have a extended warranty like Mavic's "MP3" replacement program?

 

[norbar]

does any other mfg have a extended warranty like Mavic's "MP3" replacement program?

Over an exteded warranty I prefer Eastons no questions asked warranty If it really works I dig it.