So spinning in circles is out, huh? I am definitely off the back when it comes to fashion...
Are flat pedals a liability?
- Thread starter daisycutter
- Start date
uh, well you can't really sit and spin on a downhill bike regardless of pedal type, and I would imagine the opportunities to "pull" with your feet aren't as numerous as the times you wouldn't want to for fear of breaking traction on the rear wheel.
What you're saying only makes sense if you're talking about someone who is not already comfortable on clips from riding other bikes. I've been riding clips forever on other bikes so getting OUT is plenty easy. But I'll grant you the fact that getting back INTO a clip is more difficult once you're in the hairy stuff and dab a foot.
This is about racing at the elite level and I just disagree with what you're saying about confidence. Those that choose clips or flats do so because they see it as the way to go. They would not make that call (one way or the other) if they didn't feel confident riding them on WC tracks.
I was under the impression that spinning in circles was found to be no more efficient than mashing away, even under the best circumstances.
Suspect that the largest advantage of clips for roadies is simply forcing your feet to be properly positioned over the pedals at all times. The efficiency gained from this should be quite significant, especially on endurance races where fatigue comes into play.
Suspect that the largest advantage of clips for roadies is simply forcing your feet to be properly positioned over the pedals at all times. The efficiency gained from this should be quite significant, especially on endurance races where fatigue comes into play.
the last article I read said that utilizing the "pull" stroke required double the work. Double the work you say? Yes...for double the power. Idiots. They didn't measure power output, just input, and their "quantitative" analaysis was that it took more energy.
Agree, disagree, or indifferent, that article did generate a ton of comments on Pinkbike and created some lively discussion here. I don't have an opinion on RC, but it does seem like despite all the hate, people know who he is. From Pinkbike's perspective, that's probably more interesting than some vanilla personality who no one knows and writes forgettable pieces.
It's true that stupid crap is sometimes more memorable than, you now, facts and stuff.
but go read the reviews on the element 970, and then the magura tS8. One reads like something a hardcore rider wrote after spending significant time with the bike in a variety of circumstances with a background in riding aggressively on difficult terrain. The other reads like something somebody's dad wrote who spent a day with the fork on a single trail and has a vague idea of what they like but not enough to put pen to paper. I mean, if I wanted MTBR, I'd go over to MTBR.
I think flats have some advantages, they may not be completely worth it at the WC level, but during a race this summer there was a motocross corner at the end of the track, all the guys in Pro were clipped in and most of CAT 1 were as well, I was one of the only guys on flats and was able to go signifigantly faster through the last corner with the whole "sam hill" foot out sliding sideways, the clip guys could have unclipped for it, but with the jump after it i felt that the flats were defintly the way to go. Not sure about the WC level but it seems that many local PRO/CAT 1 riders dont have the accuracy to jump into the clip last second, where the flat can be an advantage. It was a universal opinion that flat pedals dominated that last corner that weekend. *not the rest of the track
^This!!!!!!!!
A couple of riders have mastered both styles of pedals, e.g. Nico, Voreis and Smith. Bryce is not there yet but could be one of those guys IMO.
Wyn Masters makes an interesting point about that in the PB comments if you scroll down, the Champery that Hill raced was quite different to the one that Hart raced.
my personal opinions and experiences are more valid than your differing opinions and experiences.
im sorry youre wrong
I've seen that somewhere before...
Everyone is entitled to my opinion and is empowered to agree with it and feel validated by it.
Well shlt, at least you've got the good sense to know when to abandon your own experience in light of people you've never ridden with based on one day on one track. I respect that.
You're just mad because he won on Schwalbes.
^ does tight = steep?
tight means lots of direction changes that send big people into trees
elf style fo life!!!
Show us on the doll where the tall man touched you.
http://www.bikejames.com/strength/top-3-clipless-pedal-myths/
Though I want to find the original research article going with that. Still spinning in circles makes no sense in dh.
At 25 I have 16 years of clipless riding experience (5years in dh, 3 dh years on flats) and even getting out doesn't always work as fast as you want. Also I think we've all had a few situations where the pedal had problems with unclipping. Hell I had that happen to me on a crash 5m from the finish on a race. Couldn't get up because of that. Lost 10s+
As for elite people having no confidence - than you are saying Peaty is less confident on clipless than you? Because he was switching back and forth as late as 07. Many other top riders go one way or the other. I think you miss the point and i phrased it wrong. The tracks where flats are a benefit are rare, even the places where they are are rare. That's why more riders will go for clipless.
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I can't reach!
I personally prefer flats because they suit my style...ragged, foot off, and lots of dabbing. I even ride XC on flats. To me its more fun.
However, I don't think I ever lost a race because of the pedals. I lost because I braked too hard, over cooked turns, was a hack, and had no fitness.
I did study sections while I was racing and I noticed this: The difference between mid pack and top pack pros in rock garden was negligible. Racing has always been won by fitness first and in the corners.
However, I don't think I ever lost a race because of the pedals. I lost because I braked too hard, over cooked turns, was a hack, and had no fitness.
I did study sections while I was racing and I noticed this: The difference between mid pack and top pack pros in rock garden was negligible. Racing has always been won by fitness first and in the corners.
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Pretty serious racer here and going from flats back to clips on DH. I used to ride clips when I was more of trail rider.
The article linked above kind of assumes the advantages of clipped pedals are power and strength related.
I'm making the switch because you just tend to make less mistakes and ride in a more committed manner when in clips.
IMO it isn't about pedal power at all. On clips it's much easier to pedal in an awkward situation. An awkward situation usually means a situation where you have lost speed or flow, making that input of power that much more valuable.
Dabbing - Pretty sure this is almost always a bad idea. (Foot out drifting, too) Most dabbing situations can be ridden out of anyway. But this coming from someone who lost an ACL to a bad dab. OT: That crash has made me think about this a lot. Crashing from not dabbing (front washing out) sounds like it would be easier to tuck and roll out of than say kicking off from a dab and starting a rag doll roll.
RC's bike position argument makes sense, but it seems like he's trying too hard to validate a connection there. Position on a bike has far more dependence on a persons body structure and size preference than pedals.
I'll say this with conviction though, clips are better if you want to win. The flat boys are just f#cking good.
But after all that I love flats, they just give riding more soul. If I didn't race my bikes would all run flat pedals, no question... If not just for having to not constantly walk around in clipless shoes, I forgot how horrible it is. That's where I miss my 5.10's the most!
P.S.
I'm certain that winning races is all up to mentality at the end of the day but discussing this kind of stuff is NOT pointless. I find it amazing that after all these quite valid factors, pedals, shims, yaw, dw-vpp's, carbonz etc, on gnarly diverse tracks, these guys still finish races in margins similar to much simpler sports. At the end of the day, the milliseconds do matter.
The article linked above kind of assumes the advantages of clipped pedals are power and strength related.
I'm making the switch because you just tend to make less mistakes and ride in a more committed manner when in clips.
IMO it isn't about pedal power at all. On clips it's much easier to pedal in an awkward situation. An awkward situation usually means a situation where you have lost speed or flow, making that input of power that much more valuable.
I have to disagree here. Not so much for power but for stability. Another effect of spinning is putting power into the pedals puts minimal weight on the bike. If you can spin a bike well you can spin through chop and still let the bike float. That's pretty hard to do on flats.
That must have sucked big time. Same thing happened to me, fortunately was going fast enough to rag doll to the finish!
Dabbing - Pretty sure this is almost always a bad idea. (Foot out drifting, too) Most dabbing situations can be ridden out of anyway. But this coming from someone who lost an ACL to a bad dab. OT: That crash has made me think about this a lot. Crashing from not dabbing (front washing out) sounds like it would be easier to tuck and roll out of than say kicking off from a dab and starting a rag doll roll.
RC's bike position argument makes sense, but it seems like he's trying too hard to validate a connection there. Position on a bike has far more dependence on a persons body structure and size preference than pedals.
I'll say this with conviction though, clips are better if you want to win. The flat boys are just f#cking good.
But after all that I love flats, they just give riding more soul. If I didn't race my bikes would all run flat pedals, no question... If not just for having to not constantly walk around in clipless shoes, I forgot how horrible it is. That's where I miss my 5.10's the most!
P.S.
I'm certain that winning races is all up to mentality at the end of the day but discussing this kind of stuff is NOT pointless. I find it amazing that after all these quite valid factors, pedals, shims, yaw, dw-vpp's, carbonz etc, on gnarly diverse tracks, these guys still finish races in margins similar to much simpler sports. At the end of the day, the milliseconds do matter.