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Are on-line retailers ruining the cycling industry or progressing it?

SylentK

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,328
874
coloRADo
Chain Reaction Cycles, Competitive Cyclist, Amazon, Ebay, etc.

We all know these sites. We all know they offer prices that our LBS can't compete with. Ask any LBS and they'll tell you that their COST is more than these e-tailer's sale price.

What about the distributors in all this?

Is this good for the industry, perhaps progressing it? Or ruining it? Both?

Let's hear it from all sides of the industry!
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Can you recommend an online retailer that can put on my tire for me?
 
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TN

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,301
1,353
Jimtown, CO
my LBS's are all so expensive, i dont know how the hell they are still in business. especially since 5 months out of there year are ****ty here.

I get my bike stuff from CL.
 
moff_quigley

moff_quigley

Why don't you have a seat over there?
Jan 27, 2005
4,402
2
Poseurville
I buy my stuff from a shop in CO that has prices just as good if not better than e-tailers on current stuff. I go mail order for things that are a model year or two old...like cockpit for my roadie etc.
 
eaterofdog

eaterofdog

ass grabber
Sep 8, 2006
8,310
1,560
Central Florida
I get most of my complete bikes and frames on Craigslist. I only buy pristine or very good priced stuff.

I buy crap like chains, hardware and grips at Dans Comp. $30 gets free ship. I also hit up Jenson or Universal Cycles on occasion.

I buy stuff I don't want to buy the tools for or don't want to ship from the shop. (Freewheel installs, new tire pump) Also like the way they gawk at my rides. "Wut's DMR?"
 
kickstand

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,441
392
Fenton, MI
My LBS has such ****ty service/customer service that even when I lived 10 houses down from them they didn't do me any ****ing good.

I'd rather try to fix a part, **** it up on my own, order a new one on the interweb, install it myself, **** it up, try again, order a new one online, **** that one up, and then get it right the last time, than take my bike to my LBS.
 
denjen

denjen

Certified Lift Whore
Sep 16, 2001
1,691
36
Richmond VA
I wouldn't be able to ride if it wasn't for on line shopping. I am guessing my bike is in the $3000 range if I bought it new at a store. I have way less than that in it because everything came from here, ebay or on line shops.

I did just order a pair of shoes from the LBS though. I figure its the supreme dick head move to try stuff on then go home and order it on line.
 
buildyourown

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
2.The local shop has the product in stock
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Often not, when shops give you the line "we can order anything", they lose the sale. When they have the product in stock, more often than not they get the sale.

local shops of every type know they can't compete on price alone. That is a silly notion. There is always a consumer who doesn't need the services of a shop and for them, getting a great price off the net is fine. The shop needs to give you value for your money in service and selection. Need to try something on? Shorts, shoes, pads, helmets? Then you are getting tangible value for your money.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,942
24,512
media blackout
denjen said:
I did just order a pair of shoes from the LBS though. I figure its the supreme dick head move to try stuff on then go home and order it on line.
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Same here. They're taking the time to help me out, they should get the sale. Some shops will stop helping you the second you say you're only trying something on, but are gonna buy online.
 
jimmydean

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,192
13,339
Portland, OR
jonKranked said:
Same here. They're taking the time to help me out, they should get the sale. Some shops will stop helping you the second you say you're only trying something on, but are gonna buy online.
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I wouldn't blame them, that's why I don't say anything :D

Just kidding, I don't try on shoes, I just buy what on sale at Dan's Comp and order big.
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Tell you what, LBS:

Show me why I should shop at your place of business?

How charming is the owner and the staff?

How many rides do they organize?

How many demos do they sponsor?

After ride BBQ's? Beer on tap?

And they better be pretty nifty with the tools too.

Because what I usually get from shops is some weird attitude that I owe it to them to spend my money there.
 
eaterofdog

eaterofdog

ass grabber
Sep 8, 2006
8,310
1,560
Central Florida
sanjuro said:
Because what I usually get from shops is some weird attitude that I owe it to them to spend my money there.
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A very good point.

Note to shops: Put a pretty and sweet girl at the counter. She doesn't have to be real smart.

Another note to shops: Learn how to use a ****ing computer. I'm not standing here for 15 minutes while you dig through 5 catalogs.
 
TN

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,301
1,353
Jimtown, CO
I only use LBSes when I am out of town & need a part or something. Ususally when I need one at home it is for something I am out of like nipples or brake housing. Online stores suck for when you need something NOW.
 
binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,100
1,150
NC
I gave a ton of business to my LBS in New Hampshire. Two bikes for me, a bike for my dad, a bike for my sister, assorted parts, consumables and tools over the years... heck, I even bought Jenn's new road bike for her when we were up there visiting family, 750 miles from home. The guy knew how to provide service. I could borrow tools for a parking lot fix, get things checked out quickly, and go for rides with the shop guys. He'd even throw a freebie in once in a while - a tube, or a bottle of tri-flow.

Tried to do that after moving and just never found a shop that was interested in any kind of personal service. Instead I found price gouging (a place that was charging $0.75 apiece for cable ferrules, $8.50 for a star nut), disinterested employees, mechanics that recommend new parts without figuring out why, and elitist riders who would look at you with distaste if you weren't decked out in full lycra riding the latest carbon wonderbike.

Doesn't matter much to me, I guess. I like the atmosphere of a good shop but I can get my parts online and wrench on the bike myself.
 
jimmydean

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,192
13,339
Portland, OR
binary visions said:
Doesn't matter much to me, I guess. I like the atmosphere of a good shop but I can get my parts online and wrench on the bike myself.
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That was a lot like Trailhead. You could hang out, BS, wrench, go for rides, drink a beer, it was a very cool place to hang out and I gave them a lot of business in parts and promoted the shop at races and stuff. But since they closed down a few years ago, I haven't found another shop like that around here.
 
-BB-

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
I think that one of the trends I'm seeing is towards "service only" LBS's.

Smaller "shops" that only keep the tiny-bits in stock that you might need to replace in order to make tomorrow's group ride... things like rotors, brake pads, chains, & tubes.... but these stores are HEAVY on the service side of things. Things like suspension re-builds, complete bike overhauls, brake bleeds, Headsets etc.

The advantage of doing this is that they be in a smaller Sq-footage unit, they don't need to be in the high-traffic retail locations (most are in more bargain commercial/industrial spaces) and they don't have a ton of $$ tied up in inventory.

These stores CAN get you items that you need, often at a very decent price... you just have to wait a little bit. Some will encourage you to buy online and then bring it in for install. I also find that you end up having a more "personal" relationship with these kinds of LBS's and since they have no inventory you can trust their opinion more. They wont "pitch" something just bc it happens to be a brand they need to push... and they cater to people that know a thing or two, not the newbie that walks in and asks for a bike to ride on the local fire road.

Case in point: I was at another more "traditional" store here in OC, actually the biggest independent LBS's in the county... I was looking at two frames, one was a Banshee with a virtual pivot design and the other was a Ventana (Pure single pivot swingarm with 4-bar shock actuation). This store had a "personal" connection with Ventana and the employee was trying to tell me that the Banshee (VB4) and the Ventana were BOTH single pivots, so I might as well get the Ventana. WTF? Don't tell me that the Banshee is a single pivot? I can see the darn swing-link right there. If anything it is a form of VPP just like SantaCruz, Intense, DWLink and Maestro!! NOT a single pivot... I may look young but I was NOT born yesterday.
 
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IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
IMO, its not the e-tailer's fault entirely.
the consumer electronics industry suffered greatly from the internet whoring out the prices of products (the Koreans are also to blame, but thats another story.)
the prices obviously came from the manufacturer who cut deals on said products at the low prices.

it took many years before manufacturers got the balls to stand up to the e-tailers (or retailers w/ a internet biz) and tell them that a minimum retail price must be maintained on the products to protect other dealers and the industry in general. many bitched and moaned but in the end, pricing was cleaned up on the internet to the point that everyone could and still was making money.

my old company had a rule that any of our products could not be listed for no more than 20% off of M.A.P. pricing for our "normal" line (our specialty line could not be advertised less than M.A.P.). once all of our dealers were on board, there wasnt a issue with e-tailers trying to drop their pants on the price just to get the sale from another site.
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
P.S. The only shop I go to qualifies in every question I posed, Passion Trail Bikes.

They give me a small standard discount and I have never questioned any price I have been given.
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,318
16,779
Riding the baggage carousel.
My LBS is awesome. I haven't bought any bike stuff from teh webz in years. I do pay a little more for the stuff I buy, but I figure the premium is worth it given the level of expertise and service I receive from them. And I’ve never needed anything so badly that I couldn’t wait the 4-7 days it takes my LBS to get it if they have to order it, its going to take that long if I order it online anyway.
 
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binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,100
1,150
NC
jimmydean said:
That was a lot like Trailhead. You could hang out, BS, wrench, go for rides, drink a beer, it was a very cool place to hang out and I gave them a lot of business in parts and promoted the shop at races and stuff.
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Yeah, I don't mind paying a little extra for instant gratification and maintenance of a good relationship... but I feel like so many shops assume they're worthy of my business because they exist on the planet and it's my loss if I don't shop there.
 
splat

splat

Nam I am
Apr 27, 2002
14,751
318
Well Maybe Windows is Bearable ! Unix Rules !
It depends ,I just had My bike serviced ( rear shock rebuild , Brake bled , and he did a bunch of other good stuff ) at LBS. He did a great job quick , fair priced, and he supports the trails, rides , the other guys in the shop are great to. since I have been a long time customer , when I bring my Bike in during the busy time I still get 2 -3 day ( or a demo bike if I need it faster ) turnaround time , Vs. the 2 -3 weeks the wal marts specials get. being a loyal customer does have its perks .

eaterofdog said:
You can have the crusty old dude who's still complaining 7 speeds went away.
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She already Knows JBP!!
 
Silver

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
IH8Rice said:
it took many years before manufacturers got the balls to stand up to the e-tailers (or retailers w/ a internet biz) and tell them that a minimum retail price must be maintained on the products to protect other dealers and the industry in general. many bitched and moaned but in the end, pricing was cleaned up on the internet to the point that everyone could and still was making money.
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This. The manufacturers are screwing over their own retailers to move stock. They gotta make the numbers, and **** flows downhill.

I like the way Canon and Nikon do it-buy from an approved dealer, or pay slightly less and get no warranty. As a manufacturer, you have to have the balls to tell the guy with a broken gray market frame to **** off, however. That might not work in an industry with so many substitutes.
 
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