[eaterofdog]

The closest shop to my house is run by this really weird dude. He's got the full Rain Man thing going on. The shop reopens then closes again every three months. The latest I heard is someone poisoned him and he was in the hospital for a month.

Went in there one time and dug around the storage area and he has fifty plus 90s BMX bikes (in the box) that he thinks are hot sh!t. I didn't have the heart to tell him they are all tanks.

 

[Pete..]

My local bike shop is rad. The owner is an acquaintance and his employees are either acquaintances or personal friends. Yeah sure the prices are more than online but I feel great whenever I make a purchase there because it's keeping local dudes employed and letting pretty much all of them live 'the dream' while I can't. Haha. Plus a 10% discount covers tax!

 

[JRogers]

I've seen what the Trek store pays for their Superflys before they put them on the floor for $5k. There is a ton of profit. Maybe not a ton for parts like a derailer or handlebars... but on actual bikes... there is a good deal of profit.

Sort of.... but higher end bikes should have higher margins...and most shops sell a ton of low end stuff and few really high end bikes. Plus, bikes take labor to build and more overhead to store and show on the floor.

The real money (or at least big margins) seems to be in service and various accessories and small parts (helmets, clothing, tubes, bottles, etc.). This, at least, is what I remember from working at a shop a few years ago. High end sales (particularly mtb) were fairly rare, and this was at a fairly large shop in an area with a pretty good income (ask IH8rice; he might have even been my "boss" at one point).

I sold tons of low end mtbs and kids bikes. For a while, they offered a commission based on the dollar amount of accessories sold with a bike multiplied by a percentage based on the cost of the bike- they wanted accessories sold and encouraged us to push them when we sold a bike as the person was more likely to go for it and that is where the money is if you do it consistently.

 

[JRogers]

if that is your thinking, then no new product should come with a warranty. instead they should just lower the price instead of offering a warranty? car mfg's would love that idea

I wouldn't mind if the option for warranty was offered. In a few years of mountain biking, I have broken two frames. One I bought new, was planning to sell and was well out of warranty range. The other I bought used and might have had some warranty left on it if I were the original owner, but I paid probably a quarter or third of the retail value....so it was still a deal after two seasons or so. I know crap about cars, so I think I want a warranty there, but I know lots about bikes- I can repair, dig into the toolbox and find cheap alternatives pretty easy.

I think I have used a warranty once in about a decade of real mountain biking. It was for a set of Truvativ cranks and BB on a new Cannondale. Turns out the warranty was slow enough, a PITA enough and common enough that the LBS (I used to work for them, which helps) just swapped them for a set XT cranks and BB they had in stock. (just as a note, if I lived in that area and I were a regular customer and they did that for me, I'd be a customer for life).

 

[denjen]

On-line retailers aren't killing bike shops, bike shops are killing bike shops. I ordered a pair of shoes last week and went into pick them up yesterday. I walked around for a couple minutes looking for some new cleats also. When I couldn't find where they where I asked someone. First he just looked at me like he had no idea what I was asking for, then waved his hand in the general direction of where they should be and walked off. I just said fvck it and drove up the street to Performance. Makes me wish I had just bought some shoes there.

Poor CS will keep me away quicker than cheap internet prices anyday.

 

[loco-gringo]

So, of course some people will think they deserve special treatment because they deign to support a shop, just like some shops think their poo don't smell. I don't agree with that - the local shops can't match online pricing and you don't deserve dealer cost just because you patronize a business.

On the other hand, I think a lot of people just expect the shop to build a relationship with them if they're a regular, reliable customer who spends a lot of money there. Sometimes that means throwing in a discount. Maybe not, there are a lot of ways to build relationships. I get that it's tough to run a small business.

However - let's use my example. I bought/was directly responsible for selling 5 bikes, a small mountain of accessories, a bunch of tools and and a steady flow of consumables. That makes me a better/more reliable source of income than the guy who bought a cruiser and was never seen again. I can get everything far cheaper online, so they need to offer incentive to shop there, and that incentive comes on the service/relationship side. Hell, a lot of it is just symbolic anyway. A free $5 can of tri-flow doesn't even come close to making up for the fact that I paid $20 more for a pair of tires. But it makes the customer feel good, and keeps the relationship intact.

I'm not going to be mad at a shop that doesn't want to give a little to get a little. But I don't have to shop there, either. The hybrids may be higher profit margin but it's the serious riders who bring in their family and friends to buy bikes, or destroy a couple thousand dollars a year worth of riding clothes/helmets/tubes/small parts.

I agree with that. I toss in tubes and lubes from time to time. I give most good customers 10%. Some even 20%. What's funny is they end up saying thank you later on. They didn't even notice at the time. It's better that way. You have a relationship and they just realize it a little more at a later time. People that ask for discounts aren't necessarily bad, but they won't support you all the time. Case and point...I have a friend that opened a competing shop 9 miles away. I wish I could help him some, but it's conflicting interest, so I can't. It's funny how many think he will jump through his ass for them. While it's slow, they will. When he is half as busy in a day as I am, that will end. When that happens and they come to my shop, they will realize their part in our relationship. It's sad to think like this, but it reinforces the same thing so many people complain about. There is always a different side to a story.

BV - you are a good example of a good customer. We even talked about bikes and you just used my suggestion to support the shop that has taken care of you in the past. Sure...it worked better for sizing, but you took information they didn't give you and blended it with their info and bought from them. Far too often people would add one more step simply to save money. That's the part that angers me a little. I'll learning to care less and less about that and go with the flow. I still whine plenty to Wumpus, but try to stop it there.

Online won't ruin the shops, but it will ruin the shop/international parts relationship. I personally think Shimano can sh*t down their own throat most days.

 

[loco-gringo]

On-line retailers aren't killing bike shops, bike shops are killing bike shops. I ordered a pair of shoes last week and went into pick them up yesterday. I walked around for a couple minutes looking for some new cleats also. When I couldn't find where they where I asked someone. First he just looked at me like he had no idea what I was asking for, then waved his hand in the general direction of where they should be and walked off. I just said fvck it and drove up the street to Performance. Makes me wish I had just bought some shoes there.

Poor CS will keep me away quicker than cheap internet prices anyday.

Sometimes the lady that takes my co-pay at the doctor doesn't know anything about my health either.

I know that's not an excuse and I wouldn't ever go back to that shop, but I wouldn't make the same generalization you just made either.

 

[denjen]

Sometimes the lady that takes my co-pay at the doctor doesn't know anything about my health either.

I know that's not an excuse and I wouldn't ever go back to that shop, but I wouldn't make the same generalization you just made either.

I know there are good shops out there, problem is for every good shop there are a bunch of not so good shops.

Biggest problem is that where I live most of them fall into the latter.

 

[MMike]

I know there are good shops out there, problem is for every good shop there are a bunch of not so good shops.

Biggest problem is that where I live most of them fall into the latter.

yup...

 

[sanjuro]

On the flip side, I hate discussing prices between mail order and LBS's, whether I am working in a shop or on RM.

The answer should be obvious to all parties involved: the LBS might sell 1 XT derailleur a week, mail order sells 25 a day. So the pricing scale is going to be different.

I suppose the problem is how this message is relayed. If I hear "I can order it for you", I get sick.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

I agree with that. I toss in tubes and lubes from time to time.

Is this slang for a handjob?

 

[Silver]

Sometimes the lady that takes my co-pay at the doctor doesn't know anything about my health either.

I know that's not an excuse and I wouldn't ever go back to that shop, but I wouldn't make the same generalization you just made either.

That's just bad service though-how many small bike shops have a dedicated cashier who doesn't know where floor stock is?

 

[jonKranked]

The real money (or at least big margins) seems to be in service and various accessories and small parts (helmets, clothing, tubes, bottles, etc.).

^^^This. Shops make their money on accessories & service. They wouldn't survive on bike sales alone.

 

[crohnsy]

I agree with that. I toss in tubes and lubes from time to time. .

Is this slang for a handjob?

Where I come from, thats a Saturday night special

 

[Bicyclist]

Case and point...I have a friend that opened a competing shop 9 miles away. I wish I could help him some, but it's conflicting interest, so I can't. It's funny how many think he will jump through his ass for them. While it's slow, they will. When he is half as busy in a day as I am, that will end. When that happens and they come to my shop, they will realize their part in our relationship. It's sad to think like this, but it reinforces the same thing so many people complain about. There is always a different side to a story.

What?

 

[Jim Mac]

One thing that strikes me about this argument - it seems to always turn out to be a comparison of bad bike shop experiences to good online bike experiences. People complain about said shop experiences, but there seems to be an amnesia on bad online experiences (refer to Discountedcycle thread). In this way, it turns into an 'apples to oranges' comparison.

 

[denjen]

One thing that strikes me about this argument - it seems to always turn out to be a comparison of bad bike shop experiences to good online bike experiences. People complain about said shop experiences, but there seems to be an amnesia on bad online experiences (refer to Discountedcycle thread). In this way, it turns into an 'apples to oranges' comparison.

I think more people are also willing to give the online shops a lot more leeway because of the huge savings they get

 

[MMike]

I think more people are also willing to give the online shops a lot more leeway because of the huge savings they get

Not to mention, not having the face-to-face "**** you" is easier to swallow. When an LBS is looking you in the eye and telling you to suck it, it's much harder to tolerate.

 

[jdcamb]

Not to mention, not having the face-to-face "**** you" is easier to swallow. When an LBS is looking you in the eye and telling you to suck it, it's much harder to tolerate.

Somedays you seem kind of intelligent, somedays not so much. Try going to the LBS when your having an intelligent day. Poll us will tell you how your doing....

 

[ridiculous]

people suck.

 

[SylentK]

So lots more peeps giving feedback on their LBS. Is it just me or does it sound like there's much less negativity against the e-store? Must be either the short term memory of on-line shopping, or perhaps the e-store can deliver?

The only complaint I can offer is that I emailed CRC on a missing Freecaster DVD. They never replied, but you know what? I eventually got the DVD. Seriously, and that's with a lot of on-line orders over the course of my "cycling career" (since 1994) and the invention of the internet. No really, I'm old.

Someone emailed me this link to Amazon. It's a book on small biz, but it apparently singles out this bike shop biz in CT who does over $6.1 Million a year, owner's name is Chris Zane, maybe of Zane's Cycles? Anyone heard of him or his shop? Below is a few excepts from reviews of this book. As a student of business and especially a student of the bike shop industry, you know, cuz its "our" industry, I find it interesting. What is this Chris dood doing that the others can't?

Excerpts from Amazon.com reviews of Alpha Dogs: How your small business can become a leader of the pack

The innovations boil down to this: treat employees like gold and they'll work harder (and stay longer), make a great quality product from superior components instead of cheapening your goods, and project a fun and spirited image by being, well, fun and spirited. There's Chris Zane of Zane's Bicycles; thriving in an industry that has been steamrolled by Walmart, Jim Throneburg of THOR-LO socks, beating China at the margins game, and Trish Karter of Dancing Deer Bakery, just plain selling cookies, to the tune of nine million dollars a year. The stories of their success are fascinating; rises, falls, more rises and a whole lot of common sense

Included in the author's review are Chris Zane, whose commitment to customer service has made his company one of the biggest bicycle dealers in the U.S.

Zane's Cycles is an example of "seducing the customer". Also in competition with Walmart, they offer 90 day price protection, and a 30 day return policy regardless of bike's condition. In 2004 ten returned their bikes and upgraded to more expensive models. Some used bikes were sold at discount, but the owner figures they pay for themselves in good will. Once, a customer wanted to rent a couple of mountain bikes for the weekend. Instead, Zane's let them borrow them for free. The customer, an organizational consultant, was so impressed with Zane's generosity that he donated a team training session for Zane's employees. Chasing the quick buck would have gotten the owner $200. Instead he got $1500 to $2000 in free training.


Or maybe we need to get into the cookie industry? $9M a year? F&ck

Edit: Found it. Damn, Zane's like world famous and sh!t

 

[fro biker]

tldnr. i'll say this though: my local shop is a great place, but out of date. another shop i frequent just updated itself and they are awesome. both shops get my business for consumables and such, but only i wrench on my bike (usually, there are only 2 or 3 other people i trust to work on it).

 

[woodsguy]

How about combining the two. What if REI bought Pricepoint, or Jenson, etc. and put all their deals on the REI site AND in their stores. With their 100+ stores nationwide they would be able to move product around to where it is selling the best. They could use the stores as warehouses shipping from whatever store has the product in stock. This would give them stores packed with product at great prices, knowledgeable sales reps ready to help, and a full service shop. Like they already offer, the customer would be able to have their order shipped to a store for free. Plus, they would be able to return it at a store if need be.

Plus, imagine the deals at their garage sales!

Edited.