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Are we all just a bunch of self-serving scumbags?

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
the most invidious: 6). Fraudonomics K-12

to a significant degree, i expect the other 9 can be traced back to this
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,349
10,280
i predict you won't be moving out of the country anytime soon.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,349
10,280
the most invidious: 6). Fraudonomics K-12

to a significant degree, i expect the other 9 can be traced back to this
you'd think all the teachers would be conservative.....they are the only dishonest people in the world after all.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Lol, I would've expected nothing less from you. :rofl:
what, you find something unreasonable/irrational/illogical about asserting one of a handful of root causes, or do you believe we are born w/ cheating dna?

confused as to the objectionable content. shcool me
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
what, you find something unreasonable/irrational/illogical about asserting one of a handful of root causes, or do you believe we are born w/ cheating dna?

confused as to the objectionable content. shcool me
Maybe he thinks you were blaming "socialized" education.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Maybe he thinks you were blaming "socialized" education.
ah...probably.

dear parents & teachers (yes, this includes those who are both): don't raise/teach kids to be self-serving, entitlement minded, immoral, unethical douches, and there won't be a top 10 list like this.

there; all better
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
ah...probably.

dear parents & teachers (yes, this includes those who are both): don't raise/teach kids to be self-serving, entitlement minded, immoral, unethical douches, and there won't be a top 10 list like this.

there; all better
Yep, because cheating on your test (avoiding negatives like failing, disciplinary actions, parent notification) in 4th grade is the sole cause of unmitigated greed and corruption in the corporate boardrooms and financial institutions of today (gaining positives, like money, influence, etc). That's just a LITTLE too much of a stretch for me to seriously believe.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Yep, because cheating on your test (avoiding negatives like failing, disciplinary actions, parent notification) in 4th grade is the sole cause of unmitigated greed and corruption in the corporate boardrooms and financial institutions of today (gaining positives, like money, influence, etc). That's just a LITTLE too much of a stretch for me to seriously believe.
wtf is wrong w/ you? did you fail reading comprehension? re-read my OP, looking for the prepositional phrase "to a significant degree"

see how that is *not equal* to *sole*?

see it yet?
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
wtf is wrong w/ you? did you fail reading comprehension? re-read my OP, looking for the prepositional phrase "to a significant degree"

see how that is *not equal* to *sole*?

see it yet?
Right, I was concentrating on THIS part:

the most invidious: 6). Fraudonomics K-12

to a significant degree, i expect the other 9 can be traced back to this
and this part:

ah...probably.

dear parents & teachers (yes, this includes those who are both): don't raise/teach kids to be self-serving, entitlement minded, immoral, unethical douches, and there won't be a top 10 list like this.

there; all better
And I'm laughing because you, as a "Conservative" look past all of the corporate greed, accounting scandals, unethical behavior and outright maliciousness of the corporate world and lay the "significant source" of blame (or originating blame, as per your second post quoted above) at the foot of the right-wing's favorite whipping boy, (public) schools.

"It's not their fault that the corporate world is greedy, unethical, immoral and at times completely detrimental to the health and well-being of this country, it all goes back to that evil school system..."
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,023
7,928
Colorado
yes. It's dirty as hell.
If the congressional investigations into Goldman and WS pull back the veil at all the outrage from the general populace will be extreme. But then again, why expose something you are on the take for...
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
42,370
19,896
Riding past the morgue.
yes. It's dirty as hell.
If the congressional investigations into Goldman and WS pull back the veil at all the outrage from the general populace will be extreme. But then again, why expose something you are on the take for...
:clapping:
I need to see if I can find the figure for how much wall street companies contributed to both parties during the last election. IIRC the figures are pretty amazing.

*edit. I did one better and found this.
The report, "Sold Out: How Wall Street and Washington Betrayed America," shows that, from 1998-2008, Wall Street investment firms, commercial banks, hedge funds, real estate companies and insurance conglomerates made $1.725 billion in political contributions and spent another $3.4 billion on lobbyists, a financial juggernaut aimed at undercutting federal regulation. Nearly 3,000 officially registered federal lobbyists worked for the industry in 2007 alone. The report documents a dozen distinct deregulatory moves that, together, led to the financial meltdown. These include prohibitions on regulating financial derivatives; the repeal of regulatory barriers between commercial banks and investment banks; a voluntary regulation scheme for big investment banks; and federal refusal to act to stop predatory subprime lending.
http://www.wallstreetwatch.org/soldoutreport.htm
 
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dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
yes. It's dirty as hell.
If the congressional investigations into Goldman and WS pull back the veil at all the outrage from the general populace will be extreme. But then again, why expose something you are on the take for...
I'm wondering if the GOP has backed themselves into a corner on this. They were trying to score political points by claiming that the bill wasn't strong *enough*, so now there are a plethora of populist bills are coming out (click the 1st WSJ article)

Everything from reinstatement of Glass-Steagall to spinning off derivatives to auditing the Fed... Who knows, maybe we might get something worthwhile out of this after all.
 

eaterofdog

ass grabber
Sep 8, 2006
9,207
2,728
Central Florida
I'm wondering if the GOP has backed themselves into a corner on this. They were trying to score political points by claiming that the bill wasn't strong *enough*, so now there are a plethora of populist bills are coming out (click the 1st WSJ article)

Everything from reinstatement of Glass-Steagall to spinning off derivatives to auditing the Fed... Who knows, maybe we might get something worthwhile out of this after all.
We need some gay marriage debate or Lindsey Lohan's vagina falling out so people will stop paying attention to real news.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,023
7,928
Colorado
I'm wondering if the GOP has backed themselves into a corner on this. They were trying to score political points by claiming that the bill wasn't strong *enough*, so now there are a plethora of populist bills are coming out (click the 1st WSJ article)

Everything from reinstatement of Glass-Steagall to spinning off derivatives to auditing the Fed... Who knows, maybe we might get something worthwhile out of this after all.
From my converstions with non-Bank traders (nobody at a bank will be candid on these things):

1) Bring Back Glass-Stegal - First and foremost this absolutely MUST happen. Banks are banks - hedge funds are hedge funds - Inv Banks are Inv Banks - There is and needs to be no confusion on this issue.

2) TBTF - Break them into 10-15 banks each and let them fail. The **** will hit the fan, but they will take the bad debt created out of nothing with them. Also, amend laws to state that no bank, bank-like entity, or insurance company can have more than .75% of US banking deposits, and limit leverage to 15-1. "Money" will be destroyed, but so be it. It wasn't real anyways.

3) Commodity Speculation - Sure, go for it. Just make sure that leverage ratios do not exceed 8-1, and you must put up capital into escrow in advance. Watch commodity pricing come back down to reality.

4) SEC Enforcement - The SEC was initially supposed to make the punishment from the crime be more expensive than the potential or actual profits. What ever happened to this? Stop settling and go for the jugular.

5) Speaking of the SEC - How about we institute a 5yr minimum between leaving the SEC and working in any way related to Wall Street? Lobbyist - no; Consultant at a bank - no; work at a bank - no.

6) Audit the Fed - The only reason to hide what positions it has are: 1) They are positions it is not legally able to hold, 2) The positions are worthless, 3) They are bankrupt and printing currency to maintain their debts. If you say it's because they don't want their trades to be disclosed so the market is manipulated against them, refer to #4 above.

Get the drift? Most people not working at the majors want the rules to come back, because until then, they are not making money because TBTF has minimal counter-party risk, among other benefits that are generated from the status.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
From my converstions with non-Bank traders (nobody at a bank will be candid on these things):

1) Bring Back Glass-Stegal - First and foremost this absolutely MUST happen. Banks are banks - hedge funds are hedge funds - Inv Banks are Inv Banks - There is and needs to be no confusion on this issue.

2) TBTF - Break them into 10-15 banks each and let them fail. The **** will hit the fan, but they will take the bad debt created out of nothing with them. Also, amend laws to state that no bank, bank-like entity, or insurance company can have more than .75% of US banking deposits, and limit leverage to 15-1. "Money" will be destroyed, but so be it. It wasn't real anyways.

3) Commodity Speculation - Sure, go for it. Just make sure that leverage ratios do not exceed 8-1, and you must put up capital into escrow in advance. Watch commodity pricing come back down to reality.

4) SEC Enforcement - The SEC was initially supposed to make the punishment from the crime be more expensive than the potential or actual profits. What ever happened to this? Stop settling and go for the jugular.

5) Speaking of the SEC - How about we institute a 5yr minimum between leaving the SEC and working in any way related to Wall Street? Lobbyist - no; Consultant at a bank - no; work at a bank - no.

6) Audit the Fed - The only reason to hide what positions it has are: 1) They are positions it is not legally able to hold, 2) The positions are worthless, 3) They are bankrupt and printing currency to maintain their debts. If you say it's because they don't want their trades to be disclosed so the market is manipulated against them, refer to #4 above.

Get the drift? Most people not working at the majors want the rules to come back, because until then, they are not making money because TBTF has minimal counter-party risk, among other benefits that are generated from the status.
First post from you in a long while that I've agreed with. Although you missed mark-to-market.

Also, you've been railing against the latest changes to the FDIC, even though those actually address #2, in a manner that arguably is less disruptive to short term market conditions.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
From my converstions with non-Bank traders (nobody at a bank will be candid on these things):

1) Bring Back Glass-Stegal - First and foremost this absolutely MUST happen. Banks are banks - hedge funds are hedge funds - Inv Banks are Inv Banks - There is and needs to be no confusion on this issue.

2) TBTF - Break them into 10-15 banks each and let them fail. The **** will hit the fan, but they will take the bad debt created out of nothing with them. Also, amend laws to state that no bank, bank-like entity, or insurance company can have more than .75% of US banking deposits, and limit leverage to 15-1. "Money" will be destroyed, but so be it. It wasn't real anyways.

3) Commodity Speculation - Sure, go for it. Just make sure that leverage ratios do not exceed 8-1, and you must put up capital into escrow in advance. Watch commodity pricing come back down to reality.

4) SEC Enforcement - The SEC was initially supposed to make the punishment from the crime be more expensive than the potential or actual profits. What ever happened to this? Stop settling and go for the jugular.

5) Speaking of the SEC - How about we institute a 5yr minimum between leaving the SEC and working in any way related to Wall Street? Lobbyist - no; Consultant at a bank - no; work at a bank - no.

6) Audit the Fed - The only reason to hide what positions it has are: 1) They are positions it is not legally able to hold, 2) The positions are worthless, 3) They are bankrupt and printing currency to maintain their debts. If you say it's because they don't want their trades to be disclosed so the market is manipulated against them, refer to #4 above.

Get the drift? Most people not working at the majors want the rules to come back, because until then, they are not making money because TBTF has minimal counter-party risk, among other benefits that are generated from the status.
You know what that sounds like? SOCIALISM!! :rant:
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,023
7,928
Colorado
My ass. That sounds like capitalism with limits. Capitalism without limits will inevitably become monopolistic. Some limitations preventing monopolistic practices are more than enough to keep capitalism work. It's bail out's, with private profit / public loss that is socialism.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
My ass. That sounds like capitalism with limits. Capitalism without limits will inevitably become monopolistic. Some limitations preventing monopolistic practices are more than enough to keep capitalism work. It's bail out's, with private profit / public loss that is socialism.
Well... yeah. Sorry, I thought the sarcastic "duh" was implied and didn't need to be stated. I was just going on the fact that the dipsh!t teabagger neocons have been claiming that regulation is the problem and specifically caused the financial meltdown.