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Are we responcible for our own actions?

Motionboy2

Calendar Dominator
Apr 23, 2002
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Broomfield, Colorado
I guess the way the conversation was turning in that thread was why is it that you can be sued by a burgler that is robbing you.
A family friend had a resturaunt. When they locked up for the evening they bolted the doors. If a burgler had broken in and in some fashion started a fire or something and could not get out due to the door locks then he/she or his/her family could sue them.

In the same respect if you are walking down the sidewalk and you slip on ice you are able to sue the owner of the sidewalk for not getting rid of the ice. My grandmother's neighbor sued her DAUGHTER because of this.

Another infamous case is the old McDonalds hot coffee issue. I don't think that i need to get detailed here.

So to re ask the question. are we responcible for our own actions or do we feel that well if it happens oh well i will just sue?
 
Z

Zonic Man

Guest
Originally posted by Motionboy2

A family friend had a resturaunt. When they locked up for the evening they bolted the doors. If a burgler had broken in and in some fashion started a fire or something and could not get out due to the door locks then he/she or his/her family could sue them.
Those people were GROSSLY misinformed by someone. This holds true for all 53 jurisdictions within the U.S.

Originally posted by Motionboy2

In the same respect if you are walking down the sidewalk and you slip on ice you are able to sue the owner of the sidewalk for not getting rid of the ice. My grandmother's neighbor sued her DAUGHTER because of this.
If the person knew of the hazardous condition, and failed to remedy it (negligently or recklessly) when they had an invitee or licensee to their home or workplace, then yes, they may be held liable for their negligence/recklessness. What's wrong with that? And as for the familial relationship and suing, that daughter was just an a-hole, or she REALLY needed money from Granny to pay medical expenses. (But I don't really know the facts so I shouldn't judge)

Originally posted by Motionboy2

Another infamous case is the old McDonalds hot coffee issue. I don't think that i need to get detailed here.
Such a misconception. People have no clue that McDonald's intentionally made their coffee dangerously hot, even after repeated complaints, just to suck more flavor out of the beans to save $$$ and use less beans.

They were intentionally, recklessly, and negligently harming people with knowledge aforethough.

Originally posted by Motionboy2

So to re ask the question. are we responcible for our own actions or do we feel that well if it happens oh well i will just sue?
Yeah, we should be responsible for our own actions, including making assumptions about things we know very little about, and yet aspouse our opinions.
 

Motionboy2

Calendar Dominator
Apr 23, 2002
1,800
0
Broomfield, Colorado
Originally posted by Zonic Man

Yeah, we should be responsible for our own actions, including making assumptions about things we know very little about, and yet aspouse our opinions.
Ouch! Ok admittedly i do not know much about those cases but here are some that i do know about.
I worked at a Ski/Bike shop in the Poconos. During one summer a guy went to one of the resorts that at the time opporated lifts for bikers. A man rode his bike up the road next to the slopes that lead to the top of the resort and poached a run down the mountain. This man was drunk, as well as tresspassing. He hit a waterbar and was ejected off his bike and broke his neck. He proceeded to sue the resort. Who then had to prove that he had not purchased a ticket or ridden their lift to the top. Which they did. When the man was defeeted in that lawsuit he proceeded to sue again this time to the local pub for serving him underage (he used a fake ID) this court battle was pending for a few years and i think it settled out of court. i moved away in the meen time. But regardless of the outcome i am more concerned with the attitude that "it isn't my fault".

Anyplace that i go on my bike i get a nasty look from some security gaurd and it is usually followed up with. "you can't be here, if you got hurt you could sue us" so what they are saying is if i deside to jump off a ledge on my bike i can sue them for my actions? Why, I am the moron that couldn't make the drop not to mention try the drop!
 
Z

Zonic Man

Guest
Originally posted by Motionboy2

I worked at a Ski/Bike shop in the Poconos. During one summer a guy went to one of the resorts that at the time opporated lifts for bikers. A man rode his bike up the road next to the slopes that lead to the top of the resort and poached a run down the mountain. This man was drunk, as well as tresspassing. He hit a waterbar and was ejected off his bike and broke his neck. He proceeded to sue the resort. Who then had to prove that he had not purchased a ticket or ridden their lift to the top. Which they did. When the man was defeeted in that lawsuit he proceeded to sue again this time to the local pub for serving him underage (he used a fake ID) this court battle was pending for a few years and i think it settled out of court.
Guy sounds like a d-bag. Don't sweat it, they are all over.

Originally posted by Motionboy2

Anyplace that i go on my bike i get a nasty look from some security gaurd and it is usually followed up with. "you can't be here, if you got hurt you could sue us" so what they are saying is if i deside to jump off a ledge on my bike i can sue them for my actions? Why, I am the moron that couldn't make the drop not to mention try the drop!
Possibly under a sort of "attractive nuisance" theory, but it's tenuous at best. Doubt you would prevail, but it depends on the facts and their level of negligence.
 
G

gravity

Guest
i can scientifically prove that our fate is predestined, and we cannot actually control our actions (discounting the possibility of a soul)
 
G

gravity

Guest
Originally posted by fourgivn1
Then you must be a lot smarter than pretty much every theologian, and not a few scientists, who has ever lived.
not really. EXCEPT for supernatural influences (ie a soul, God etc), simple chemistry and physics dictate that everything is predetermined. think about it, given the motion that every single molecule is making in a given instant (ie if you could freeze time, where would every atom in existence be, and in which direction would it be moving), it will react with something in either a physical or chemical way, eventually. this will in turn set off the next chain of events etc. but every single atom will do something, and when you think about it, you could theoretically work it out. however there are just too many atoms in the universe to consider them all, and we don't know what all but a few are doing at any one time.

in other words, considering what each atom is going to do in the next .0000000000000000000001 microseconds, it would then be affected by that in a predictable way, so immediately after that, it would move somewhere else or react with something else which you could also predict.

does this make sense?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,032
7,553
Originally posted by gravity
not really. EXCEPT for supernatural influences (ie a soul, God etc), simple chemistry and physics dictate that everything is predetermined.

...

does this make sense?
No. The Uncertainty Principle shows that we can never know the exact state (pos. and momentum) of anything, let alone anything. Thus I combat fallacious logic with fallacious science of my own. ;)
 
G

gravity

Guest
Originally posted by Toshi

No. The Uncertainty Principle shows that we can never know the exact state (pos. and momentum) of anything, let alone anything. Thus I combat fallacious logic with fallacious science of my own. ;)
"....of anything, let alone anything." ??
you mean let alone everything?

i never said we could actually work it out (well i said theoretically, but like you said in reality we can't). just that it IS actually predetermined, there is no randomness in science.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,032
7,553
Originally posted by gravity
"....of anything, let alone anything." ??
you mean let alone everything?

i never said we could actually work it out (well i said theoretically, but like you said in reality we can't). just that it IS actually predetermined, there is no randomness in science.
Yes, I meant "let alone everything." So you really believe that we have a destiny that's unavoidable? I think that there truly exists a nondeterministic factor in the world -- there is something random and chaotic about it -- and that our destinies are not fixed in stone. Or in the cells we're made of, etc. :rolleyes:
 

SVEN

Sponsor Whore
Feb 9, 2002
84
0
here and there, sometimes
Originally posted by fourgivn1
Sorry I haven't been posting here. (Like anyone's missed me. *L*) Something about having a wedding (my own, yes) in 17 days that keeps a guy busy. :eek: :D I'll be back after the wedding (early August) after my new wife lets me come up for air. :o:

Come up for air? Sicko;)
 

ibismojo

Monkey
Nov 6, 2001
235
0
San Diego
eh...Toshi already stated the Heisenberg Theory. The more you know where you're going, the less you know where you are...and vice versa.
 
G

gravity

Guest
Originally posted by Toshi

Yes, I meant "let alone everything." So you really believe that we have a destiny that's unavoidable? I think that there truly exists a nondeterministic factor in the world -- there is something random and chaotic about it -- and that our destinies are not fixed in stone. Or in the cells we're made of, etc. :rolleyes:
i don't think a person's fate is completely predetermined (some parts have to be to some extent, ie the family/culture/society you're born into, it's not your choice therefore it's classified as fate).

i believe in a soul, which therefore puts choice into everything. have you seen Minority Report? i follow somewhere along the lines of Agatha's quote: "once you know your future, you can change it."

the Christian bible (and many other religions' bibles i'm sure, but i haven't read them at all) lays out what happens when you do stuff, ie consequences of our actions. when you know of possible outcomes of your actions, you will take the course of action that gives you the best possible outcome, right? being sapient beings, we can work out this stuff without being told anyway, therefore we can predetermine what the likely outcome of any particular action will be, and therefore choose whether or not to proceed with that action. if you didn't know that there could be negative outcomes to a particular action, you would not hesitate to proceed with that action. we are given the ability to foresee the future through scientific deductions (well you know what i mean) and the ability to choose our fate IMO.

does that make sense?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,032
7,553
Originally posted by gravity
how many peeps ya got on it now?
6. I had held back from having more than 3 since I didn't know that it expanded to give you more space when you added more. :eek: How many are on yours?
 
G

gravity

Guest
Originally posted by Toshi

6. I had held back from having more than 3 since I didn't know that it expanded to give you more space when you added more. :eek: How many are on yours?
i have no people on mine. even if i reckon someone's a tool, i still leave them unblocked because once out of a hundred posts, they might say something useful that i wanted to know. and i'd rather know what's going on all the time too...... am i a stickybeak? :eek: