[Slugman]

God forbid that we want any of our hard earned cash to go saving lives. No we'd rather wait until we are sure every cent is accounted for then we'll ask for receipts because it's a tax deduction.

Back to being a drama queen... and attacking

All I am saying is that with the amount of aid that they are receiving right now there is no need to keep throwing money at them until the needs are identified. If they had NO money I would totally agree that we need to send some RIGHT AWAY... But that's no the case. There is so much money and supplies being sent in right now that giving more would not make it get to the victims any faster than if we waited, assessed the situation and then brought in more. By that time the infrastructure to distribute donations would be more efficient.

 

[valve bouncer]

Back to being a drama queen... and attacking

All I am saying is that with the amount of aid that they are receiving right now there is no need to keep throwing money at them until the needs are identified. If they had NO money I would totally agree that we need to send some RIGHT AWAY... But that's no the case. There is so much money and supplies being sent in right now that giving more would not make it get to the victims any faster than if we waited, assessed the situation and then brought in more. By that time the infrastructure to distribute donations would be more efficient.

Wait and see how many more can die. Good strategy. You win the N8 award for being the most cold hearted bastard in RM. Mother must be proud.

 

[DRB]

Wait and see how many more can die. Good strategy. You win the N8 award for being the most cold hearted bastard in RM. Mother must be proud.

And still we do nothing in Darfur.

 

[Slugman]

Wait and see how many more can die. Good strategy. You win the N8 award for being the most cold hearted bastard in RM. Mother must be proud.

You are out of control... you can't see past the blinder in front of you.

There is so much activity going on right now that I doubt you can fathom it... how exactly is this waiting for people to die? Get a grip!!! Go buy some tinfiol and make a nice hat, PM Changleen for instructions.


Oh yeah – the whole Iranian Earthquake thing… http://www.usaid.gov/iran/

Interesting how much money and good we gave to a nation that hates us and promotes the destruction of us. :nuts:

 

[RhinofromWA]

Why not?

The question was in response to a 'we'll match what everyone else gives' comment - as the US is so much larger than most other nations and much richer than most other nations it seems to be a way of matching in a real sense.

My knee-jerk (ironically named) is to say "F' them" after hearing that US is stingy sentiment, AND screw the GDP **** too. Let the rest of the world save itself, we have problems of our own here.

The poblem is this.....the US is only good when they can give you something....and apperantly only if that something is HUGE and INSTANTLY. Not only is the US federal government giving money AND physical aid........numerous charitable Organizations are jumping in too. I don't think the US was looking for a medal for the aid given, but to the guys that bad mouthed what they got.....get in the back of the line.

Yeah the US is a bunch of stingy people who give nothing and do nothing positive in this world...... US-->:nuts:<--rest of the world.

I say throw them what we have in excess and can spare. Grain and hollywood actors. neaky:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aside from my personal feelings on the stingy comment mentioned at the beggining of this thread......

The event as a whole was terrible. I can't imagine what it must be like there. I remember the first time I saw the photage of the buses full of people being washed away and other busses toppling over with what I assume are more people in it as it fills up. Watching the people being helplessly swept way made me queesy. I can't imagine where they are to begin to workl on the mess. I was almost angered that the local news stations didn't report on it more.....it seems like the media tuned it out for a day or so. I feared that the news had deemed it less than news worthy and instead wanted to report on the awards show or the next reality series. (I guess I don't like the broadcast news...huh?) Now reports and more photage are coming in...I don't want this to be non-news by Monday.

Rhino

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

My knee-jerk (ironically named) is to say "F' them" after hearing that US is stingy sentiment, AND screw the GDP **** too. Let the rest of the world save itself, we have problems of our own here.

I can understand that as a "knee-jerk" reaction. If you drop a quarter in the beggar man's cup - and he spits on you - of course your going to be pissed. But after that we have this:

The event as a whole was terrible. I can't imagine what it must be like there. I remember the first time I saw the photage of the buses full of people being washed away and other busses toppling over with what I assume are more people in it as it fills up. Watching the people being helplessly swept way made me queesy. I can't imagine where they are to begin to workl on the mess. I was almost angered that the local news stations didn't report on it more.....it seems like the media tuned it out for a day or so. I feared that the news had deemed it less than news worthy and instead wanted to report on the awards show or the next reality series. (I guess I don't like the broadcast news...huh?) Now reports and more photage are coming in...I don't want this to be non-news by Monday.

Rhino

Which leads me to believe that at least one of the conservatives in this thread has the capacity of reason. Did the parents burying their kids with bulldozers in mass graves say "Damn your Stingy Uncle Sam!" - no, they didn't. So why would you hold them responsible for the commentary of some asswipe politician? Take the high road for once in your F'ing lives, jeeesh.

 

[RhinofromWA]

I can understand that as a "knee-jerk" reaction. If you drop a quarter in the beggar man's cup - and he spits on you - of course your going to be pissed. But after that we have this:

Which leads me to believe that at least one of the conservatives in this thread has the capacity of reason. Did the parents burying their kids with bulldozers in mass graves say "Damn your Stingy Uncle Sam!" - no, they didn't. So why would you hold them responsible for the commentary of some asswipe politician? Take the high road for once in your F'ing lives, jeeesh.

But you left out another real problem.....

The world hates the US until it needs the US. If that same beggar spit on you day in day out you stop giving him quarters.

You convientently left out a portion of my post....relating to this:

The poblem is this.....the US is only good when they can give you something....and apperantly only if that something is HUGE and INSTANTLY. Not only is the US federal government giving money AND physical aid........numerous charitable Organizations are jumping in too. I don't think the US was looking for a medal for the aid given, but to the guys that bad mouthed what they got.....get in the back of the line.

Yeah the US is a bunch of stingy people who give nothing and do nothing positive in this world...... US--><--rest of the world.

I say throw them what we have in excess and can spare. Grain and hollywood actors.

How long until the spat on, stops giving? If we are such demons....why do we help?

 

[narlus]

can't you see that foreign policy and foreign aid can and are at odds w/ each other, at least sometimes? that's the US conundrum.

 

[BigHit-Maniac]

Of course no other nation would help us, are you kidding?

We're supposed to help all, heal all, fix all, and get along with everyone... yet when we have issues the other nations just sit back, pop open a beer, and observe.

Hmmm... odd.

 

[Silver]

Anyone know how much aid came in after the 9/11 attacks?

 

[fluff]

To me it's fairly simple, the US (and the rest of the developed world) shoudl do more becuase they can afford to do more. That is of course taking for granted that we should do anything, but that's a question of compassion.

I know that regardless of what my government does I will be sending £100 for aid to Asia as I did for aid to Sudan. I can think of many other things to spend that money on but nothing I truly need.

 

[narlus]

one hundred quid is pretty generous fluff. i plan on giving too (thanks for the oxfam link, whoever).

 

[fluff]

one hundred quid is pretty generous fluff. i plan on giving too (thanks for the oxfam link, whoever).

I dunno, I always feel like I should do more, it also feels wrong talking about it somehow...

In answer to the question of how much is needed, I would suggest that in the unlikely event that money is left over it should be passed on to the next necessary cause.

 

[fluff]

Anyone know how much aid came in after the 9/11 attacks?

How much was needed?

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Published: December 30, 2004
Editorial: Are We Stingy? Yes

President Bush finally roused himself yesterday from his vacation in Crawford, Tex., to telephone his sympathy to the leaders of India, Sri Lanka, Thailand and Indonesia, and to speak publicly about the devastation of Sunday's tsunamis in Asia. He also hurried to put as much distance as possible between himself and America's initial measly aid offer of $15 million, and he took issue with an earlier statement by the United Nations' emergency relief coordinator, Jan Egeland, who had called the overall aid efforts by rich Western nations "stingy." "The person who made that statement was very misguided and ill informed," the president said.

We beg to differ. Mr. Egeland was right on target. We hope Secretary of State Colin Powell was privately embarrassed when, two days into a catastrophic disaster that hit 12 of the world's poorer countries and will cost billions of dollars to meliorate, he held a press conference to say that America, the world's richest nation, would contribute $15 million. That's less than half of what Republicans plan to spend on the Bush inaugural festivities.

The American aid figure for the current disaster is now $35 million, and we applaud Mr. Bush's turnaround. But $35 million remains a miserly drop in the bucket, and is in keeping with the pitiful amount of the United States budget that we allocate for nonmilitary foreign aid. According to a poll, most Americans believe the United States spends 24 percent of its budget on aid to poor countries; it actually spends well under a quarter of 1 percent.

Bush administration officials help create that perception gap. Fuming at the charge of stinginess, Mr. Powell pointed to disaster relief and said the United States "has given more aid in the last four years than any other nation or combination of nations in the world." But for development aid, America gave $16.2 billion in 2003; the European Union gave $37.1 billion. In 2002, those numbers were $13.2 billion for America, and $29.9 billion for Europe.

Making things worse, we often pledge more money than we actually deliver. Victims of the earthquake in Bam, Iran, a year ago are still living in tents because aid, including ours, has not materialized in the amounts pledged. And back in 2002, Mr. Bush announced his Millennium Challenge account to give African countries development assistance of up to $5 billion a year, but the account has yet to disperse a single dollar.

Mr. Bush said yesterday that the $35 million we've now pledged "is only the beginning" of the United States' recovery effort. Let's hope that is true, and that this time, our actions will match our promises.

 

[fluff]

Published: December 30, 2004
Editorial: Are We Stingy? Yes

Good post JrB, says it all really.

Is it not ironic that the religious right seems less charitable than the degenerative and godless left.

 

[Slugman]

Is it not ironic that the religious right seems less charitable than the degenerative and godless left.

As much as I can't stand the right - I think that is a completley unfair character assisination since the only figures are what the US government has given, you still need to take into account what individuals are donationg before you can make a statement like that...

 

[SDH]

I dunno, I always feel like I should do more, it also feels wrong talking about it somehow...

In answer to the question of how much is needed, I would suggest that in the unlikely event that money is left over it should be passed on to the next necessary cause.

Ya wanna do more????

I mean really help................... save the cash and find a hungry family in your town and buy them food. This way you are 100% helping them. You send $ about 40% makes it to the people that need the help. You have only 40% of a chance to save a live vs 100% of a chance at home!

We are one of the richest countries in the world, yet hundreds of thousands die of lack of food or medicine in this country a year!

Yup lets pledge zillions of dollars some where else.............

as someone said before..........how many countries stepped up to help us during 9/11?

 

[fluff]

Ya wanna do more????

I mean really help................... save the cash and find a hungry family in your town and buy them food. This way you are 100% helping them. You send $ about 40% makes it to the people that need the help. You have only 40% of a chance to save a live vs 100% of a chance at home!

We are one of the richest countries in the world, yet hundreds of thousands die of lack of food or medicine in this country a year!

Yup lets pledge zillions of dollars some where else.............

as someone said before..........how many countries stepped up to help us during 9/11?

Simply because people ignore problems on their doorstep is no reason to ignore problems elsewhere. It is possible to give to both local and remote charitiable causes, it is also possible to physically volunteer or work for local charities.

Don't pledge the money - give it, and give it where is it is needed, make charity part of your live.

And as I have said before, how much did the US need after 9/11, and what help would it have been? Can you even compare the events of 9/11 as tragic and sad as they were with what has happened in Asia?

 

[SDH]

Simply because people ignore problems on their doorstep is no reason to ignore problems elsewhere. It is possible to give to both local and remote charitiable causes, it is also possible to physically volunteer or work for local charities.

Don't pledge the money - give it, and give it where is it is needed, make charity part of your live.

And as I have said before, how much did the US need after 9/11, and what help would it have been? Can you even compare the events of 9/11 as tragic and sad as they were with what has happened in Asia?

YUP, for me it is more tragic, lost friends......................

Yes, an inflow of additional cash would have helped plenty for the families of 9/11 and at a gov't level. We are still paying for the out lay of 9/11. Many programs have taken cuts to pay for it.

My point is charity begins at home. Fix problems at home first. I am sure that is what you would do in your own life, give to your family then your nieghbors

 

[PsychO!1]

Published: December 30, 2004
Editorial: Are We Stingy? Yes

President Bush finally roused himself yesterday from his vacation in Crawford, Tex., to telephone his sympathy..........

Pretty easy to tell where this article was going half way through the first sentence.

Bush seems to be an easy target these days, and EVERYBODY is taking shots.
Why would anybody think that the the first $15m would it, or that the $35m pledged now is gonna be it? And why are they comparing the donatons of a single country to the donations of the entire EU???

 

[dan-o]

I find it amazing that the tsunami, with at least 115,000 confirmed dead, is even being compared to 9/11. Whole families have been wiped out and economies devastated.

The US bashing is pretty tired on most fronts but I actually think it has merit in this case. There is simply no excuse for Bush to wait 3 days to get in front of a camera and say "Wow, that's horrible. We'll do our best to help".

I was living in europe when the comparatively insignificant (in terms of human loss related to the direct act) events of 9/11 occurred. The outpouring of support was incredible in terms of political leaders and common citizens. We had strangers stopping us on the street and coming to our house expressing condolences.

$35m is a lot of money. We burn through that in about 1/2 a day in Iraq.

 

[Silver]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_don_cap

Notice all the "socialist" countries in the EU at the top? Mabye fluff is onto something here...

$35M is nothing. We spend more on a fighter jet than that. It's like Bill Gates giving someone a nickel...sure, it's still charity, but it's pretty poor charity.

 

[Slugman]

And why are they comparing the donatons of a single country to the donations of the entire EU???

Becasue Powel made the coment about giving more than any 'group of nations'... that is why the guy cites the EU.

 

[N8 v2.0]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_don_cap

Notice all the "socialist" countries in the EU at the top? Mabye fluff is onto something here...

$35M is nothing. We spend more on a fighter jet than that. It's like Bill Gates giving someone a nickel...sure, it's still charity, but it's pretty poor charity.

Ok... now look at the same data from the same website with a healthy dose of reality:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_don#

From the same site: http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_rec&int=50

It interesting that Indonesia is the #1 recipient of aid BEFORE the current disaster.

 

[Slugman]

I personaly liek this one the best... http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/gov_cor

Oh look - the places that we are sending all themoney to are high on the corruption scale... we should send them more money. :nuts:

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Ok... now look at the same data from the same website with a healthy dose of reality:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_don#

From the same site: http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_rec&int=50

It interesting that Indonesia is the #1 recipient of aid BEFORE the current disaster.

So...I don't get your point? You're trying to point out how clear it is that the US donates a very small portion per capita than the rest but when you add it all up it's 2nd highest on the list? Gosh...but we're still not at the top...and we're not exactly that far ahead of France...so the statement that we donate more than any group of nations is kind of silly based on your evidence.

I love it when you post stuff that's absolutely pointless but lends support to the side you're trying to mock.

 

[Silver]

Ok... now look at the same data from the same website with a healthy dose of reality:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_don#

Cool, let's compare the US and France then.

US gave 6.9 Billion in 1997, with a population of 293 million.

France gave 6.3 Billion in 1997, with a population of 60.5 million.

(Population numbers are both for 2004, but I'm guessing that adjusting the numbers to 1997 levels would be lost on you, and probably wouldn't make much difference.)

So yeah, stingy. You understand why per captia numbers are useful? The US is even worse when you compare aid to % of GDP.

 

[N8 v2.0]

So...I don't get your point? You're trying to point out how clear it is that the US donates a very small portion per capita than the rest but when you add it all up it's 2nd highest on the list? Gosh...but we're still not at the top...and we're not exactly that far ahead of France...so the statement that we donate more than any group of nations is kind of silly based on your evidence.

I love it when you post stuff that's absolutely pointless but lends support to the side you're trying to mock.

Who's stats should we use?

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?t=50&v=99

Why is private funding excluded from almost all stat's?

The United States uses the most common OECD measure that shows it spent almost $15.8 billion for developing countries in 2003.

Next closest was Japan, at $8.9 billion.

...and that doesn't include billions more the United States spends in other areas, such as AIDS and HIV programs and other U.N. assistance.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Who's stats should we use?

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?t=50&v=99

Why is private funding excluded from almost all stat's?

The United States uses the most common OECD measure that shows it spent almost $15.8 billion for developing countries in 2003.

Next closest was Japan, at $8.9 billion.

...and that doesn't include billions more the United States spends in other areas, such as AIDS and HIV programs and other U.N. assistance.

Hmmm...wow...looks like some useless information when you follow that link - except for the note at the bottom that it's provided by the CIA world factbook, it gives no information on what exactly the CIA World factbook used to generate such plush wonderful sunny numbers.

Can you break those numbers up for us?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Hmmm...wow...looks like some useless information when you follow that link - except for the note at the bottom that it's provided by the CIA world factbook, it gives no information on what exactly the CIA World factbook used to generate such plush wonderful sunny numbers.

Can you break those numbers up for us?

Figures via the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

 

[Slugman]

So does our money do less good becasue we give a lower percentage based on some "X-Factor"?

 

[I Are Baboon]

Man, this thread is confusing. All these figures and percentages and links.....are we for donating or against donating, and am I supposed to up my donation because I am in a higher tax bracket?

 

[N8 v2.0]

... and am I supposed to up my donation because I am in a higher tax bracket?

Well, according to several on here... yes, yes you should.

What gets lost is that this aid money is a 'voluntary' donation and not a requirement for governments to pay.

Any monies given by any nation to another should be very much appreciated and not ridiculed for the amount (per capita or otherwise).

I wonder how much in aid the US received for all the hurricane damage that hit the southern US 6 months ago...???

 

[narlus]

I wonder how much in aid the US received for all the hurricane damage that hit the southern US 6 months ago...???

that was a pretty bad set of storms, and lots of people lost property (along w/ some deaths). my step-dad came out of retirement to help liberty mutual figure out all the insurance stuff.

how many people in sri lanka, indonesia, somalia, or the maldives do you think have insurance? did 100K people die in FL?

can you not grasp the differences people are talking about, or do you not want to?

 

[RhinofromWA]

Good post JrB, says it all really.

Is it not ironic that the religious right seems less charitable than the degenerative and godless left.

Well, what a nice and backhanded observations, Fluff.

It seems Ironic that the godless left thinks everything can be made better by throwing money at it with no direction or plan.

Those who fail to plan......

Saw on TV somewhere that the US funds the UN by like 20-30% or more fo gereral operations and funds that would be used in situations like this......odd for a stingy country.....even when there is no events like this one.

FOr the ones who think the US stingy.....get a freak'n clue.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Well, according to several on here... yes, yes you should.

What gets lost is that this aid money is a 'voluntary' donation and not a requirement for governments to pay.

Any monies given by any nation to another should be very much appreciated and not ridiculed for the amount (per capita or otherwise).

I wonder how much in aid the US received for all the hurricane damage that hit the southern US 6 months ago...???

Are you stating that the numbers you "show" include voluntary donation information? Or, here's a good study (I wonder if it's been done), is there a study anywhere that shows:
Private Aid compared to Government Aid
ranked by total aid given, comparing all these rich 1st world nations?

(Yes yes, I recognize I should get off my butt and do the research myself here, but I have to work today too)

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Well, what a nice and backhanded observations, Fluff.

Hehehe - I got a great backhanded observation from my girlfriend who just finished B school in the Marines and will soon be heading to C school...

Her response was "Honestly, I could care less about a bunch of dead people on the other side of the world. I'm being trained to kill others here, where in that is there room for me to also be compassionate?"

hahahah

And as for actual opinions IAB - I'm personally up in the air. Part of me agrees with both sides, and yes, I have given a personal donation, but I don't know that I want a much larger percentage of our already over extended government budget going in aid to other nations when we can use it here.

Then there is the sick and twisted part of me that wonders, well gosh, haven't people been complaining about an overpopulation crisis?

And then there is the other part of me that goes, gosh, if this happened on the West coast of the US, took out the coastal cities along CA, OR, and WA, how much aid would we get? Honestly? And in such an event, would our death toll be much less then the one stemming across several countries?

Then there is the part that is at war with the other two parts saying - gosh, everyone should have compassion, and why is the US the only one giving so low per capital amount. The organizations pointing out that we are, in comparisson to them, stingy, have a good point.

:mutter: sigh....

 

[Silver]

I read in the NY Times today that Florida ended up with $13 Billion dollars of aid from the federal government.

Once again proving that if God wanted the lives of brown people to be worth much, he would have made sure they were born white and Christian in the USA.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Hehehe - I got a great backhanded observation from my girlfriend who just finished B school in the Marines and will soon be heading to C school...

Her response was "Honestly, I could care less about a bunch of dead people on the other side of the world. I'm being trained to kill others here, where in that is there room for me to also be compassionate?"

hahahah

And as for actual opinions IAB - I'm personally up in the air. Part of me agrees with both sides, and yes, I have given a personal donation, but I don't know that I want a much larger percentage of our already over extended government budget going in aid to other nations when we can use it here.

We can afford it.....I mean no matter how much we are kicked we are to rise to the occasion so they can kick us again.....oh well.

Never mind the military personnel in route and other assistance the "richest country in the world" can give.......along with the UN second hand assistance.

Then there is the sick and twisted part of me that wonders, well gosh, haven't people been complaining about an overpopulation crisis?

Doh! See I can laugh at that....and people think I am wierd...but I know JR_B and can find that humorous.

And then there is the other part of me that goes, gosh, if this happened on the West coast of the US, took out the coastal cities along CA, OR, and WA, how much aid would we get? Honestly? And in such an event, would our death toll be much less then the one stemming across several countries?

Apperantly we would jsut be spat upon....

Then there is the part that is at war with the other two parts saying - gosh, everyone should have compassion, and why is the US the only one giving so low per capital amount. The organizations pointing out that we are, in comparisson to them, stingy, have a good point.

:mutter: sigh....

We should have a smilie with a smilie sitting on a fence and name is a :JrB:....kind of like a

j/k